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Topic: Alien, Aliens, Alien3 or Alien Resurrection?

Scott

Oscar® Winner

Since there are many interesting comments about the Aliens/Horner topic, I thought I extend the issue a bit further.
Which score is the best?My choices in order from best to ...you know what.
Alien (Jerry Goldsmith)
Aliens (James Horner)
Alien Resurrection (What's his name...Fitzelli something?)
Alien 3 (Elliot Goldenthal)Now to the why...as quickly as I can.
Alien by Goldsmith is one of the most powerful and unfortunately most butchered (by the director) scores of all time. The atonal, off rythmic music is just insane man. No one, and I mean no one can write music like this except Goldsmith. It's a shame he has chosen to abonden this in his current style.Aliens from Horner is very good indeed. The ation scenes are incredible. Unfortunately I am not as lucky as you guys to own the full score, but when the opportunity arrises, I am going to grab it.
I don't know much about the score for Resurrection, although I've seen the film. Eventually I will buy this score, but you know, I have priorities when it comes to soundtracks. I do remember thought that I liked the music better than Alien 3.
Which brings me to this disaster called Alien 3. Hated the movie, am not impressed with the score. Don't even like Goldenthal that much in the first place.
Anyway, those are my two cents... what do you guys think.
posted 09-24-1999 07:27 AM PT (US) 
SEBULBA

Oscar® Winner

That's a tuff one. Alien and Aliens are so close. Although I'd probably have to go with
Aliens
Alien
Alien Resurrection
Alien 3Alien Resurrection and Alien 3 are also very close to me.
posted 09-24-1999 08:01 AM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

Aliens is the best.
What do you mean Alien was butchered by the director?
posted 09-24-1999 08:46 AM PT (US) 
robin4

Oscar® Winner

How about:Aliens
Alien
Alien 3
Alien ResurrectionI'll admit I haven't heard much of Resurrection but I actually like Alien 3. And I also don't have the complete Aliens.
WOOHOO! I'm a member!
[This message has been edited by robin4 (edited 09-24-99).]
posted 09-24-1999 10:15 AM PT (US) 
HAL 9000
unregistered
1 - Alien
2 - Alien 3
3 - Aliens
4 - Alien 4
Alien is a beautiful piece of modern music, period. But even in it's compromised form in the movie it was the most effective and valuable production element of the whole experience next to H.R.Giger's completely original and authentic-looking set and creature concepts. And, as has been stated earlier, few composer's could pull off those primitive and volcanically evil atonalities as true as Goldsmith has. Goldenthal's contribution was a very pleasant surprise and a return to the disturbing territory Goldsmith entered in the first score. Aliens, while effective, has always been a bit too transparent and imitative for me to fully appreciate.Has anyone seen the DVD with the Goldsmith score restored intact?
posted 09-24-1999 11:31 AM PT (US) 
SFT

Oscar® Winner

My choice would be:Aliens
Alien
Alien 3
Alien ResurrectionAlien and Aliens are VERY, VERY close though.
In fact, my opinion might change with time...I don´t know.SFT
NP: Alien, Jerry Goldsmith ****/*****
posted 09-24-1999 11:41 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Matt,
what I meant with my statement about Alien having been butcherd by the director, was that Ripley Scott deleted much of the original score, or rather replaced much of the original score with temp music from such films as "Freud" and other mostly Goldsmith scores which titles escape me right now. Goldsmith was very ticked off by that. The whole end title was replaced with a classical piece by Hanson. A nice piece (I bought it) but not as effective as Goldsmiths work.
Anyway, Ripley Scott (or is Ridley, I don't remember), did the same thing with Legend and the American studio through the whole score out and replaced it with a soundtrack by a German Group called Tangerine Dream. Just imagine that!
Anyway...that's what I meant.
posted 09-24-1999 07:55 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Hehe, Scott - it's Ridley Scott. Ripley is Sigourney Weaver's character in the Alien movies.
That made me laugh. Oh well, innocent mistake.Regarding Goldsmith's replaced score for Legend, well... I must say his is a masterpiece. Anyone who doesn't own it should definitely consider buying it. You won't be disappointed.
~Jeron
posted 09-24-1999 09:39 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Jeron,
glad you enjoyed my little mistake, I do that quite often
.
About Legend, I totally agree. It was the second cd I ever bought. What a score. One in a million.
posted 09-24-1999 10:10 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

By the way,
is Alien3 really that good. I've got the compilation cd with new recordings of all three scores and I wasn't very impressed with Alien 3.
Should I get it?
posted 09-24-1999 10:12 PM PT (US) 
James

Oscar® Winner

As much as I try, I can't bring myself to rate these scores, and the sole reason is Alien 3. Aside from "Adagio" I cannot enjoy this score at all. I find it impossible to listen to agreeably, and I can't rate it with the other scores. At the same time, I think it is one of the most inventive and original scores I have ever heard. I feel this way about nearly all of Goldenthal's work. I can't stand listening to it, but I can't stand not listening to it because I want to hear what idea's he comes up with next. It's one of the most paradoxal scores for me I've ever heard.If I take Alien 3 out of the equation, here's my ranking:
ALIEN
ALIEN RESURRECTION
ALIENSI like Alien a lot, I think it is one of Jerry's best. John Frizzel's Resurrection was a surprise to me. I wasn't expecting him too come up with something that good. He was able to keep the standard set by Goldsmith and Horner and at the same time develop his own style. I really liked "They Swim..." Now, don't assume that because I put Aliens third doesn't mean that I don't like it. I like it a lot, but these are three very good scores, and of the three, Aliens is the one which I didn't find as clever. Something has to be last on the list.
James
posted 09-24-1999 10:39 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Here's my clever rating:1)The Alien Trilogy
2)Alien Resurrection
3)hehe
What do you think?~Jeron
posted 09-24-1999 11:25 PM PT (US) 
J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski

Oscar® Winner

1-Alien3
2-Aliens
3-Alien Resurrection
4-AlienI am one of those incredibly rare and odd people who think that the third movie was brilliant. Big David Fincher fan. Artistically, the third movie saved the francise by not going the typical Hollywood route of having each sequel be more action and special effects than the one before it. After the explosive James Cameron-ness of Aliens I think it was very cool to show the audience a more cereberal, character-driven story. Goldenthal's operatic style suited the film very well. Goldenthal's is a form of music that is very difficult to wrap your brain around at first, but it's really grown on me. Scott: The compilation album doesn't really do the score justice. Unless you don't like Goldenthal I'd recommend getting the full score. It's one of the cheaper CD's anyway. Resurrection had some very good things in it, but the big drawback for me was the horrific overabundance of noisy sound effects. The synth is fine in moderation, but on Resurrection it mostly just covers up the music. The reason Alien is last is because by the time I saw it, I had been bred on the many films that borrowed from it. I, therefore, was unable to really enjoy it as much as I should because I had seen it all before. A pity, too, because I like Ridley Scott and Goldsmith. I'll watch it again, maybe I'll see it differently.
[This message has been edited by J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski (edited 09-25-99).]
posted 09-25-1999 11:21 AM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

J. Peter, im a big Fincher fan too, both Seven and The Game were brilliant, but im sorry...Alien 3 sucked. A lot. it destroyed the first two movies(this is not fincher's fault, i place full blame in the script). I mean, if Newt is just gonna die anyway, then the whole climax of Aliens(the best of the 4 movies) is rendered pointless. What do you mean cerebral, character driven story? All the good characters died pretty fast. Of course, that was after they killed the good characters who survived Aliens. I found the story of Aliens much more "cerebral and character driven."
Anyway, sorry to jump on you, but whenever someone says that Alien 3 was the best one, i feel they must be killed, and since i cannot reach you...
One other thing, for those of you with the Alien Trilogy CD, doesnt it bug you that the new recordings are off timing? I mean they are SO much slower than the actual score. Just my opinion....
posted 09-25-1999 12:20 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Jeron,
man, you crack me up. I laughed so hard, I nearly had an Alien jump out of my stomach
Scott
posted 09-25-1999 03:58 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

J.Peter,
I'm going to be second person to jump on your case. Although I'm not as demented enough that I wanna kill ya...
Besides some of the points brought up by our postal friend Matt
, the special effects in Alien3 just plain simply sucked!
Last but not least: Do you really believe that Alien3 saved the franchise? I mean really...do you actually have faith in that statement?
Really last but not least
,
I'm a litlle bothered by your comments about Alien. Just because you saw the movie last should not make a big impact on your view about the score. Either you liked it or not. I didn't see Star Treck 1, 2, and three until much later, yet I have defentite opinions about the scores. I don't wanna sound like a smart...you know what, but that comment just didn't seem right.Scotty
Scott?
[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 09-25-99).]
posted 09-25-1999 04:01 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Matt,
it bugs me without end that the timing is off. Yet I must believe they tried their best. After all, the Alien score is extremely hard to perform.Scott
posted 09-25-1999 04:04 PM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

Granted, hell, Alien AND Aliens can be rather complicated. But if you cant do it right, maybe you shouldn't do it at all, hmm?
What do you mean POSTAL??!! YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!(that's not mine, that's Mr Garrison)
posted 09-25-1999 06:18 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Ok Matt,
who the hell is Mr. Garrison?
posted 09-25-1999 08:17 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Scott, if ya don't watch Southpark, you wouldn't get it. I don't watch Southpark much, that just happens to be one of the funnier aspects.~Jeron
PS- Matt, how old are you?
posted 09-25-1999 08:25 PM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

19, you?
posted 09-26-1999 11:10 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

I hate to use so little space for such a small reply, but oh well.
I'm 18.~Jeron
posted 09-26-1999 11:28 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

SOUTH PARK?
Besides that the animation like, SUCKS(!!!!!!!), I just can't get into that show. Not my kind of humor. Anyway, found out who this Mr. Garrison is. Don't like him either if I am to believe my sources.
Matt,
I know this is going to piss you off, but you and Mr. Garrison started it, were you an abused child
(ha, ha,ha,ha,ha,...)
Just kidding (as always),
Scottyposted 09-26-1999 01:09 PM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

My parents dont like South Park either Scott, but i made them see the movie and they loved it...perhapse you should do the same.
"Besides, the animation sucks" is you're excuse? damn, get out more. South Park is a great show. Another good garrison quote is "I dont know, i dont trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesnt die" freaking hilarious.
Why did you ask my age Jeron?
on that subject...How old are you Scotty?
posted 09-26-1999 01:42 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Take a guess Matt,
take a guess.
posted 09-26-1999 01:47 PM PT (US) 
J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski

Oscar® Winner

Ok, here's the reply:
First of all, I'm 20, so you whippersnappers lay off and respect your elders!
Now to defend my comments. Yes, the special effects in Alien3 weren't very good. Noone's perfect, and we of all people should know that special effects do not a good movie make necessarily. I do believe that the movie saved the franchise, allow me to expound: The great thing about the series has been that each movie has been made by a different, talented dierctor who takes the story in a different direction each time. Cameron created the Hollywood sequel with Aliens. If the next film had gone the same route (guns, action, audience-pleasing stuff) it would have ruined the creative aspect of the films by simply trying to make money on the same things that worked before. As hated as 3 is it avoided this by taking the huge risk of going the other way: A dark, apocalyptic film that created fear with only one Alien instead of Cameron's fleet. As to the characters: There were some good ones in 3: Charles S. Dutton is a great actor and had a great part, there was also the blossoming relationship between Ripley and the doctor (who had some background history, something actors love). As to the killing of Newt rendering that storyline worthless: Nonsense. It's not like they just wrote her out of the script and forgot about her, Newt's death was an integral part of Ripley's character devleopment in 3. Remember the wonderful funeral scene and those close-ups on Sigourney Weaver's face? The loss of the beloved Aliens characters contributed to the dark mood that Fincher created so well. It's not surprising that the film is not well liked, I just think it's misunderstood. I thought it sucked the first time I saw it, but now I feel that it was very poignant and artistic.
Alien: I didn't mean that I saw last of the Alien films, that's not true. What I meant was that Ridley Scott's film was very groundbreaking and changed the way science fiction movies were made. I saw the film after watching the films affected by it for about a decade. Those films copied alot of the techniques Scott used so when I saw Alien (I was 14 or 15) it was stuff I'd seen before so I wasn't too impressed. Now that I'm older, more open-minded, and I know what an important film it is, I think when I see it again I'll be able to appreciate it more (and the music the director didn't cut). I hope you will do the same with Alien3.
posted 09-26-1999 03:52 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

Hey don't assume because some watches South Park that they are young. I watch every new episode at least once and I am 38. I saw the film twice.(Oops. My first post here and it is off topic. Damn!)
posted 09-26-1999 04:06 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

J.Peter,
as far as Alien is concerned I agree with you.
Now to Alien3. True, special effects don't make a movie, I just figure they could have spend a little more effort on them. About the direction itself, very true, it was very arty and the performances were good. Except, this is Alien and not some independed foreign movie crapp. Give me story, not art (when it comes to Alien). You see, Alien by Ridley (not Ripley
)Scott,was arty and had a terrific story. Alien3 seemed rushed and just thrown together. Perhaps I need to watch it again with a mor open mind...I will do so in the future. As far as saving the franchise, I would almost say that Alien3 at my current position almost destroyed the series.But heck, what do I know...I called Ridley Scott-Ripley Scott and spelled Star Trek with a c...ts,ts.
Scott
posted 09-26-1999 05:51 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

MWRuger,
allow me to welcome you to this great group. I am so happy I found this site and I am sure you will enjoy it also. Everyone here (with the exception of myself and my spelling mistakes perhaps), is great.
As far as your age and your affection for SOUTH PARK,...I'm sorry

posted 09-26-1999 05:54 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

Dang guys, I'm gone for three days and you all are talking about Aliens, Star Trek, and South Park! Anywho, Here's my take1. Aliens
2. Alien Res
3. Alien
4. Alien 3--Crono/Kyp
Writer/Director/ProducerNP: Armageddon: Trevor Rabin (****/*****)
[This message has been edited by Crono/Kyp (edited 09-26-99).]
posted 09-26-1999 06:15 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Well... I've recently developed a great respect for what John Frizzell was trying to do with Alien Resurrection. My defense? Well... I'm a diehard Goldsmith fan, so of course I really like Alien. I recently got my hands on a copy of the full, uncut Resurrection score. In listening, I came across a track that really quite shocked me. With Frizzell's style blended (of course), he directly quoted the "Hyper Sleep" motif by Jerry Goldsmith. I was like... whoa.Anyways.
MATT: I was just curious, that's all. DO YOUS GOTS A PROBLEM WITH DAT?
MWRUGER: Welcome aboard, bud. Hope you have fun.
~Jeron
posted 09-26-1999 07:06 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

Which Alien Score is the best?Alien
Alien 3
Aliens
Alien ResurrectionYou have to give Goldsmith top nod for this one. He just rocks (Figuratively speaking)! Elliot Goldenthal always does something interesting. Just for the sake of originality he edges out Horner, for reasons we needn’t mention. I haven’t listed to Resurrection as a stand alone, but it didn’t impress me in the film.
Interestingly, I never actually saw Alien 3 (Read Script, Hated It). I bought the score because of Goldenthal’s “Interview with a Vampire”. I liked Roger Ebert’s take on this movie “Best looking bad movie I have ever seen!”
posted 09-26-1999 08:23 PM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

Yeah Jeron, I'S GOTS A PROBLEM WIT DAT!!! LETS GO MOFO!!anyway..Scott, you're right, Alien 3 was thrown together. And it DID wreck the franchise. Resurrection sucked, not as much, but still. The franchise is dead, and it is because of Alien 3. Alien 3 did **** at the BO, and Resurrection didnt fare much better.
JPeter...the killing of Newt destroyed Aliens completely. The whole climax was about Ripley trying to save Newt...then, she dies. Well thats ****ing great, lets see that again.
MWRuger, i welcome you to the board, and let me say that if you liked Aliens(the movie) then do NOT see Alien 3. it took a beautiful thing and butchered it. I dont care how good the style was...style does not a good movie make. Atmosphere is not a hard thing to set up. it should have had a good plot, with good characters who DONT DIE AFTER 10 MINUTES!!!
Aliens was brilliant. Alien 3 showed that even with a (proven later) talented director a movie can still suck.
Anyway, back to studying for Bio.posted 09-26-1999 10:21 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Scott-I just noticed you'd asked for quality/quantity on the Alien score I have.
The quality is EXCELLENT. I'm very happy I picked up this cd and not the one people have complaints about. The sound is very clear and extremely enjoyable.
The record "label" is Total Sound - 500... meaning I think there were only 500 of these cds pressed. I'm sure various copies are floating around by now. I happen to be a happy teenager who has an original hard copy. :-)
Here's the track listing:
1) Main Title
2) The Ship Awakens
3) The Landing
4) Inside the Alien Ship
5) The Egg Chamber
6) Face Hugger
7) Molecular Acid
8) Waiting
9) Search for the Face Hugger
10) Take Off
11) Burial in Space
12) The Search Begins
13) Death of Brett
14) The Plan - Mother
15) Search in the Shaft
16) Ash in a Robot
17) Death of Lambert and Parker
18) Destruct System Activated
19) Last Survivors
20) Alien in the Pod
21) Final Confrontation and FinaleThe total running time comes to a good 64:25, definitely enough Alien score to make you paranoid at night.
Hope this helps,
Jeronposted 09-27-1999 12:21 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Well,this issue seems to have run its course. Based on my unscientific research I have tallied all the votes and here is the conclusion.
Number 1: Aliens
Number 2: Alien
Number 3: Alien3
Number 4: Alien ResurrectionIt saddens me that Jerry Goldsmith came in number two but I had to be honest in counting the votes. I was surprised however that Alien3 beat out Alien Resurrection but it was close, very close.
If anyone comes to a different conclusion than I have, please let me know.Scott
[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 09-29-99).]
posted 09-28-1999 11:55 AM PT (US) 
J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski

Oscar® Winner

I beg your pardon, but I don't think we're done yet because you and Matt are still thinking like studio executives. Alien3 may have wrecked the franchise from the point of view of box office. It tanked financially, and most if not all Aliens fans now despise the film with every fiber of their being, much like yourselves. My point is that it ARTISTICALLY saved the series. If 3 hadn't taken a different direction plotwise, we wouldn't have four very unique and different films. We'd have two or three unique ones and one typical Hollywood sequel. The latter probably would have done better at the box office and be more well received by the audience, but it would have sacrificed originality.
And just because a character dies after one movie doesn't mean that their plotline is pointless. The entire relationship built up between Newt and Ripley goes to the character of Ripley, and the loss she feels. I'm sorry you felt ripped off by that. The lengths Ripley went to to save Newt in Aliens makes the loss that much more tragic for Ripley. The same thing happened in Lawrence of Arabia: Lawrence risked his life to save one of his men, only to later have to shoot him. As much as you hate it, there is alot of artistic value in human loss.
posted 09-28-1999 02:20 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Woohoo! Well put. Bravo!~Jeron
posted 09-28-1999 03:10 PM PT (US) 
Matt

Oscar® Winner

WHAT?? They didnt do jack **** with her loss after the funeral scene. her only concern was did an alien kill her. Oh, and it may have been artistic, but would it have been too hard to have a good plot? It could have gone in a different direction and been a good movie, but it was a terrible movie. IN TERMS OF A MOVIE, not just an Alien movie. Who gives a rat's ass if it was "artistic"? Even artistic movies suck, especially this one. I dont give a **** how a movie does at the box office J Peter. I only care if it was a good movie. This one was so far from a good movie that it was downright painful to watch and you couldnt pay me to see it again. Going in the artistic direction is all well and good, but above all else you must have a script worth taking in that direction. You seem to place all importance on how original the style of a movie is, and you ignore the end result. "Oh, it was well directed, so who cares if it sucked and killed the last 2 movies" Tell me, did you ever see Breathless, by Jean Luc Goddard? That movie didnt go in the typical direction and you know what? It SUCKED COMPLETE AND TOTAL ****!!!(im sorry, i always get violent because i was forced to watch it, that rage was directed at it and not you).
Alien/s fans all hate it because it killed the franchise, because it wrecked what the first 2 movies did. Yet you say it saved it? The franchise is dead, both in terms of box office and in terms of creativity. No director in their right mind would want to touch Alien 5. Why? because Alien 3 killed it and Resurrection couldnt save it. You say Alien 3 ARTISTICALLY saved the series because it went off in a different direction? The series hasnt been saved in any terms, so obviously there is an error in your arguement.
To save a series from any standpoint, that series must first be in danger. Aliens was not only an excellent movie that went in a different direction, as you put it; it also got enormous numbers. Id say the series was in ****ing good shape before Alien 3 came along. So tell me, how did Alien 3 save it again? Was that before or after it doomed it?
If Alien 3 had gone off in a different direction and been a good movie, then perhapse we would have 4 high quality unique films, instead of one great, one good and 2 bad unique films.
Anyway, i hope you're enjoying this debate as much as I am.
posted 09-28-1999 04:22 PM PT (US) 
SEBULBA

Oscar® Winner

I have the original script for Alien 3, and it's a totally different movie all together. Ripley is actually not in it, and it revolves around hicks. It's more action like Aliens, and one plot twist is that aliens come out of the body anywhere. Theres spores you can inhale, and aliens come bursting out of legs, arms, chest, etc. It's interesting. What I do like about Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection, if the Alien itself. I like the new design and the way it looks.
posted 09-28-1999 04:45 PM PT (US) 
Al

Oscar® Winner

My only complaint is that the third Alien film didn't use much of H.R. Giger's imaginative work other than the creature itself. It doesn't seem to have his special touch. The first film had Giger's style all throughout it. Giger also worked on Aliens, even though it credited him as "Original Alien Design" which made him uneligible for an Academy Award. After that flaw, I wonder if Giger had wanted anything to do with the third film anyways. Thankfully, he volunteered to do uncredited work on Alien:Resurrection. In my opinion, even though the music was fair and the direction was good, this makes Alien 3 the odd duck in the pond.Oh yeah.. and I think Jerry's score is far above the rest. Of course!
Matt and Jeron.. have you guys seen Fear Of A Black Hat? You were saying an often used word heard that film.
posted 09-28-1999 08:30 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
