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John William's "JFK"
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Topic: John William's "JFK"

Andrew
Oscar® Winner

Hello,
I am a great fan of soundtrack music (I like John Williams, JerryGoldsmith, and Randy Edelman). I have been searching everywhere for a copy of the "JFK" soundtrack, none of the major retailers have it...can anyone direct me to a site (or a person) that might have a copy of it...please email me at Andrew8511@hotmail.com.Andrew
posted 02-10-2000 12:46 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Andrew,Somebody replied to this question at "All-Time Favorites" -- don't remember his answer, though.
posted 02-10-2000 01:15 PM PT (US) 
Luscious Lazlo

Oscar® Winner

Andrew: It's not worth it. Take my word for it. I recently heard *JFK* at a record library and it bored me to tears. (And please note that I'm a Williams fan.)
posted 02-10-2000 01:28 PM PT (US) 
Dr.Evil

Oscar® Winner

Andrew:
I don't know where to find, but you can buy it, it's Williams at his best.
posted 02-10-2000 06:31 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Lazlo, them's fightin' words! It's one of the best scores Williams has written (I think). It's also the score that got me INTO film music, so that's got to be worth something. If you want, I'll try and find you a copy. If not, just check eBay. They have them on there all the time.Lazlo, I should send you a copy of this score. What's wrong with you? What Williams scores do you like, I wonder, if you don't like this one.
Shaun
NP---Silverado---what the hell happened to THIS Bruce Broughton?
posted 02-10-2000 08:59 PM PT (US) 
Luscious Lazlo

Oscar® Winner

Memo to Shaun: So you're an admirer of Broughton's dishwater-dull *Silverado*, huh? Well, in the immortal words of Ann Landers: all I can suggest is that you seek professional counseling. You obviously have some sorta horrible deep-seated trauma that prevents you from preferring Bruce's *Lost in Space* score.I also dig John Williams's 4 *Lost in Space* scores. (Especially "The Hungry Sea".) Here's the difference between Williams's *Earthquake* and Broughton's *Silverado*: *Earthquake* is good cheeze. *Silverado* is bad cheeze. I get the dry heaves just thinking about *Silverado* and its banal peppy red-blooded chirpiness. I recommend that you include Williams's *The Cowboys* as part of your recovery therapy.
My reaction to *JFK* was based on a single hearing. And I try to avoid basing any judgements on a single hearing. So I'll listen to it again. I'll expose myself once more to that crisp stately virile Americana crap in *JFK*. But if my butt falls off from profound boredom, I'll have you to blame for it.
posted 02-11-2000 09:58 AM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Lazlo,
With all due respect, Lost In Space is mainly just rewritten Silverado music. See 'Robot Attack' for the best example---it's the same music, just faster! There isn't one cue on Silverado that I don't enjoy. And hey---it was nominated for an Oscar. AND it was a good film. The only thing Lost In Space did for anybody was prove that Stephen Hopkins really isn't a good director and Heather Graham can't act.Shaun
posted 02-11-2000 11:16 AM PT (US) 
Luscious Lazlo

Oscar® Winner

Memo to Shaun: I commend you for giving the straight poop about my favorite musical blowhard, Bruce Broughton. (I didn't wanna say it myself.) Namely, that he's a Horneroid. His scores are interchangeable. As you said, the recycling job in "Robot Attack" is blatant. (This thread is supposed to be about *JFK*, but as you can tell, I'm doing everything humanly possible to avoid my duty of re-hearing *JFK*.)Yes, of course Stephen Hopkins can't direct and Heather Graham can't act. But they sure make a cute couple. (I hope they're still together. And I have no right to say any of this because I haven't seen the movie.)
Here's what Pauline Kael said about *Silverado*: "The orchestral score of *Silverado* is a mistake: it pounds you on the head trying to inflate the emotions that the movie intended to arouse, and so it makes you more aware of the hollowness of what you're experiencing. These movies aren't about anything but pinning index cards to a wall...Lawrence Kasdan is an impersonal craftsman, hip in a post-modern way that's devoid of personality...In this arch, uninvolving atmosphere, every time the director shows his good intentions---as he does in his treatment of the black hero's family, and in his concern for the terror experienced by a little boy---the film gets groggy. (Outraged by the news of some chicanery, the black cowboy uses his deepest chest tones on 'That ain't right. I've had enough of what ain't right.' "
posted 02-11-2000 01:59 PM PT (US) 
Wedge

Oscar® Winner

As a MAJOR Broughton fan, I appreciate the complexity of all his scores -- similar themes nonwithstanding. "Lost in Space" is an intricate masterpiece.And BTW, Luscious, Kael is not criticizing the score so much as she is the movie. Broughton's music was TOO good -- it made the film seem bad by comparison.
Broughton has a tendency to produce scores not worthy of the films they represent, and I admire him for it.(As for JFK, the album, while not an ideal presentation, is WELL worth having. Got mine used.)
posted 02-11-2000 02:57 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

If Kael liked the movie, there's a good chance she might like the score: e.g. such various works as THE FURY, THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY, THE WARRIORS and UNDER FIRE. If she hated the movie, then the music had no chance at all. And as I put it in an earlier such thread, there was no in-between where Pauline Kael was concerned.Never mind John Simon.
posted 02-11-2000 09:05 PM PT (US) 
S Smith
unregistered
Despite some of the negative comments, you should definitely get it. Good luck though. I looked for almost a year and happend to find it on a fluke in a mall in Phoenix. That's the last time I've ever seen a copy, and that was three years ago. Plus, I've seen it go on e-bay for as much as (I think) $20.00.
posted 02-11-2000 09:25 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

The main theme to JFK is one of Williams' very best. It even sounds good when broken down to solo piano, which is the real test of how strong an individual theme is -- can a solo instrument carry it? The piano in JFK sure can.
posted 02-11-2000 09:56 PM PT (US) 
Luscious Lazlo

Oscar® Winner

http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/jfk.html Click this link for Christian Clemmensen & Todd China's reviews of *JFK*.Memo to H. Rocco: Your animus against Pauline Kael is leading you to make false generalizations about her. She liked *Taxi Driver* but disliked Herrmann's cheezy rattling melodramatic score. She liked *Carrie* but dismissed Donaggio's score as "derivative". (Derivative specifically of Herrmann, I would imagine, but she didn't mention Herrmann by name.)
posted 02-12-2000 09:49 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

I guess I must concede those two points. But only those two.
posted 02-12-2000 11:25 AM PT (US) 
mlw
Oscar® Winner

Broughton's technique is beyond reproach. Silverado filled out that movie's urge to be huge, wide, and mythic by giving it that dimension where otherwise it would have been pretty flat-- if that movie worked it was because Broughton put it's archetype on his sleeve and gave it an expansive traditional sound with a lot of power and familiar Western flic devices-- ultimately it was more about achieving effects than about having anything to say but it's hard to deny that it is entertaining as hell. When I was a kid I saw it at an advance screening at the Chinese theater in 6track mag, thinking it was all the Big Movie Score ideas played really loudly. Tombstone is more literary and emotional in design, a solid mass of grim kickass. Broughton can be a poet when the project allows. I liked Lost in Space for it's stubborn refusal to be hammered into another impersonal Horner/Debney/Arnold scramble of cliches, instead it's actually composed like an intricate filigree of detailed drama and humanity.JFK-- that was awesome, it was such a beautiful, fresh collection of sounds from Williams, hitting the sadness of those memories but pitched at the level of great tragedy. Some of the most complicated contemporary writing put to film. Nixon is an even more powerful score in my opinion.
posted 02-12-2000 08:17 PM PT (US) 
Aaron R. Brown

Oscar® Winner

If nothing else is good about the score JFK, (I have never seen the film) the Prologue is a must have! I would like to have soundtrack. But I don't think Elektra's going to re-release it any time soon. So I will try to get the re-recording of it. It sound very much like the original.P.S. What is that about Lazlo- "stately virile Americana crap"?
[This message has been edited by Aaron R. Brown (edited 13 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Aaron R. Brown (edited 13 February 2000).]
posted 02-13-2000 02:48 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

AARON!
You MUST see JFK! It's one of the most fascinating films you'll ever watch! It changed my life---honestly!Shaun
posted 02-13-2000 09:23 PM PT (US) 
sabbey

Oscar® Winner

Well I have found JFK at my local music store, in their used section. Unfortunately they had no price on it, and when I took it up to their cash registers, they had the nerve to tell me it was listed at full price. Though there was no way it was an new CD.
That was over year ago, and they still had it as of an month ago, since who would want to pay full price for an used CD. Definitely not me.

I should see if they still have it, though to be honest I don't really care one way or the other. If anyone wants it, it is at the Music Company, Castro Valley, CA 94546-4626. If you need any other info, please let me know.
Sean Robert Abbey
[This message has been edited by sabbey (edited 14 February 2000).]
posted 02-13-2000 10:58 PM PT (US) 
Eric Paddon

Oscar® Winner

Don't waste your time with the film Aaron, unless you're prepared to take it with a major grain of salt. What is so despicable about JFK is not that it promotes goofy conspiracy theories, but that it makes a hero out of one of the most evil men in the history of American jurisprudence, Jim Garrison, who framed an innocent man with bogus evidence, bribed witnesses and resorted to duplicitous prosecutorial techniques that would make anyone concerned about civil liberties cringe.The only good thing about the film is that it got the government to release all important files (and also the release of LBJ's phone tapes) and they have, as expected, shown the real world far different from the fantasy one weaved in Oliver Stone's warped imagination.
posted 02-13-2000 11:27 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Just from a technical point of view, JFK is a masterpiece. Such gorgeous, experimental uses of different film stocks, editing techniques and so on, in a MAINSTREAM movie -- only Oliver Stone would have the stones to put together such a melange. It deservedly won Oscars for Editing and Cinematography, and was the very movie that made Tommy Lee Jones a REAL star -- he'd been masquerading as a star since the late 70s at least, but this was the first time he really got to show what he could do. His Oscar for THE FUGITIVE was, in some ways, a consolation prize for being outvoted for JFK. Terrific cast across the board, piles of great actors contributing little bits of business that you'd think wouldn't be worth their time, but they MAKE it worth their time. Every frame is a feast. Say what you will about the woolly-headed politics of the piece, Stone and his cowriter organized one hell of a vast, panoramic script, and Stone took it to the stratosphere with a vastly more daring and experimental style of direction than anyone could ever have expected. I remain in awe of the film. And the JFK theme is one of the best Williams has ever written. (Williams' stately, sober music lends the picture a much-needed feeling of groundedness.)NP: Suite for Viola and Orchestra (Ernest Bloch, whom I've never heard of, but it fills out the rest of this Bartok CD I got from the library, and is decent. Written in 1919.)
posted 02-14-2000 12:04 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

What is so despicable about JFK is not that it promotes goofy conspiracy theoriesThe film is about a man trying to find the truth. Theories are a way at the truth.
, but that it makes a hero out of one of the most evil men in the history of American jurisprudence, Jim Garrison, who framed an innocent man with bogus evidence
An innocent man? Who later admitted to being with the C.I.A.? This is something he denied under oath. He also denied ever having an alias, though it was clear that he did. He clearly knew David Ferrie, who knew Oswald.
bribed witnesses and resorted to duplicitous prosecutorial techniques that would make anyone concerned about civil liberties cringe.
Jeez, Pro-Shaw/Bertrand? I guess Garrison's public standing won't be tarnished, what with everybody watching Laugh-In (even though it wouldn't premiere until a year later).
Shaun
posted 02-14-2000 12:43 PM PT (US) 
Eric Paddon

Oscar® Winner

Shaun, you are full of it. Clay Shaw was innocent and Garrison attempted to frame him with crackpot witnesses like Perry Russo, who couldn't remember any connection until he'd been hypnotized and fed leading questions (which explains why Russo is conveniently not depicted in the film and instead we got the nonexistent Kevin Bacon character). And then there was Garrison's other star witness, Charles Speisel, who after providing his "link" of Shaw and Oswald then admitted that he routinely fingerprinted his children because he was convinced the government would switch them (and according to Garrison staff member Tom Bethell, Garrison knew that Speisel was deranged but put him on the stand in the hopes that Shaw's defense team wouldn't find out about his nutty background).Dean Andrews said point blank that there was no "Clay Bertrand", and that he made the name up. Shaw never admitted working for the CIA, he simply provided reports on activities in other foreign countries like many other businessmen did during the 1950s.
Oh and BTW, "Colonel X" happens to be a man named L. Fletcher Prouty, who among other things is quite active with the kook Lyndon Larouche organizations and has also lent himself to supporting groups that deny the Holocaust ever happened. Some authority.
posted 02-14-2000 09:05 PM PT (US) 
mlw
Oscar® Winner

JFK is a staggering feat of cinematic poetry as potent as Citizen Kane in its impact on the nature of film storytelling and its shredding of classical Robert Bresson film-in-a-shoebox conventionalities. Of course the middlebury academy will go right back to the conventional. The one film of recent note that had impact on real world policy. The copious pages of blackened text in the assassination record neither prove nor disprove anything. Stone's and Wilkinson/Rivele's better script for NIXON is a more accurate reflection of reality.[This message has been edited by mlw (edited 15 February 2000).]
posted 02-15-2000 12:58 PM PT (US) 
Luscious Lazlo

Oscar® Winner

I heard JFK again yesterday. And I'd like to congratulate it for improving enormously since I first heard it. "Prologue" & "Finale" are the 2 orchestral incarnations of the main theme, and they're both masterpieces. Although if I remember correctly, the only difference between those 2 tracks is that "Prologue" includes snare-drums. Both tracks end with a delicate flute & harp passage. Or maybe it's a flute & plucked-violin passage. Williams has always written fantastic flute stuff, and here's some more of it.In "The Motorcade", I was embarrassed by the loud appearance of a brass STAR WARS-ish motif. Which sorta gave the impression that one of Darth Vader's fighter-ships was about to swoop down on Kennedy's limo. Also in "The Motorcade", I noticed that Williams plagiarized a French-horn phrase from THE RITE OF SPRING. It's the same phrase that he plagiarized in "Sea Attack #1" in JAWS. The piccolo shriek is also straight from THE RITE.
"The Conspirators" has a Doppler-effect motif that's similar to what Herrmann did in TAXI DRIVER. (Brian Wilson did a similar shtick at the end of "Let's Go Away For Awhile", in case you didn't know.) "Arlington" is an elegiac piece of dullness. "Garrison Family Theme" is my fave track. It's a delicate little vibraphonish gem.
posted 08-01-2000 10:12 AM PT (US) 
Howard L
Oscar® Winner

I don't know the name of the cue, but the music underscoring the scene with Costner & Sutherland in the park was outstanding. You got a real feel for what was going on inside the Garrison character at that moment; the mind's ear combined with the mind's picture of Costner's expressive face produces an overpowering image. Williams brilliantly captured his emotional turmoil.
posted 08-01-2000 10:27 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

I believe that's the cue "Arlington."
posted 08-01-2000 10:53 AM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Lazlo,
You are a gentleman for bringing back this thread to right a wrong. I TOLD you JFK was a great score.Howard,
JFK was one of those "drop it in where you please" scores, so it's difficult to say that it's a perfectly scored film, but I'm saying that it's a perfectly scored film.Shaun
NP---Lost In Space (Broughton, coincidentally enough; still not big on this score)
posted 08-01-2000 10:57 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
