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Topic: Star Trek III

Ruddiger
unregistered
In my opinion Star Trek III got a lousy treatment on CD. They cut out at least two major tracks and then stuck that god awful pop version of the Search for Spock at the end.They should rerelease an expanded Star Trek III with the at least the two missing cues, "The Destruction of the Enterprise" and "Escape from the Genesis Planet." And with that last track removed and banished to the deeper recesses of the earth. Also there might even be more that they cut out, who knows.
Does anybody know what I'm talking about?
posted 03-22-2000 07:17 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Not exactly ... I'm sure there was music from the film not on the CD, but you're not suggesting the CD has less music than the LP? (I never owned the LP.)It would have been TERRIBLY expensive for them to expand the album, I'm sure -- ditto STAR TREK II (in that case, as I recall, the CD *IS* the same as the original LP.)
Not that I wouldn't welcome expansions.
NP: STAR TREK - TMP (coincidence! I swear!)
posted 03-22-2000 07:23 PM PT (US) 
charben
Oscar® Winner

An expansion for STII and III are definately a good idea. The Grissom's approach to Genesis in STIII is one of the most serene and beautiful renditions of the original Trek's theme I've ever heard. The Amazing Grace bagpipe/orchestra piece for Spock's Funeral is also sorely missing. As for expense, GNP Crescendo owns the rights for both scores. They're in a good position to do an expansion of either. With all of the attention expanded scores are getting these days, with STTMP and Superman, both of these scores may yet see expansion.Chris Harben
Atlantic Beach, FLposted 03-22-2000 08:25 PM PT (US) 
Andre Lux
unregistered
I miss "Destruction of the Enterprise" and "Escape from Genesis" too!Also, the bag pipe music for Spocks funeral !!!
More, please...
posted 03-22-2000 08:40 PM PT (US) 
Hector J. Guzman

Oscar® Winner

Yes!!
Re-release for these two great Horner scores!!!
No pop versions please!!
...NP. Return of the Jedi(Williams)*****
posted 03-22-2000 08:54 PM PT (US) 
starblade

Oscar® Winner

Another vote for expanded ST II and III here!Has anyone emailed GNP Crescendo and asked them about this yet?
Actually, I kinda like the pop version of ST III that was included. Call it a bit of 80's indulgence.........
Does anyone have the pop version of ST:TMP that was done by Bob James that was included in the LP version of the score? That's kinda neat, too.NP-Hocus Pocus
[This message has been edited by starblade (edited 22 March 2000).]
posted 03-22-2000 09:16 PM PT (US) 
Marcelo Ferreyra

Oscar® Winner

Agree with Mr GuzmanNO POP VERSIONS!!!
posted 03-22-2000 10:23 PM PT (US) 
Howard L
Oscar® Winner

I loved these two scores with one exception: that awful trombone passage just after the beautiful music when they're watching the Enterprise descend & burn in III. It was a real mood destroyer. Disgusts me just thinking about it.
posted 03-23-2000 06:12 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

It would be nice too to have the Gong sounds at the begining of Katra Ritual!
posted 03-23-2000 06:18 AM PT (US) 
James

Oscar® Winner

Expanded versions of ALL the Trek scores would be a good idea (like they did with TMP)... but especially these two.
posted 03-23-2000 01:01 PM PT (US) 
Andrew Drannon

Oscar® Winner

Definitely STIII. Besides the bagpipes, and Mutara Nebula Part II, ST2 doesn't have THAT much more music than what's on CD. However, the Escape from Genesis was one of the main reasons I bought ST3 and it wasn't even there!I emailed GNP about this last year and they apparently have no new Trek movie albums planned currently.
BUT we also need reissues of several other Trek scores:
ST:TMP - I know, I know, it's 65 whole minutes, but the full score runs about 110. We're at just over half - some of the unreleased cues comprise the best music of the score (ie Meet Vejur, scored exclusively for pipe organ) as well as several fascinating alternates.ST5: sorely in need a reissue after its tragically short album release.
ST:FC - missing several big set pieces, especially the 8 minute Flight of the Phoenix.
I know plans for reissues are slim since the scores are so recent, but we can always wish, can't we?
posted 03-23-2000 05:32 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Well, TND got a reissue by Compass III... so anything is possible. ST5 and ST:FC would be GREAT as expanded albums.Also... Flight of the Phoenix is eight minutes? The track I have runs 6:26... and it appears to be the entire sequence.
Jeron
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 23 March 2000).]
posted 03-23-2000 05:45 PM PT (US) 
Ruddiger
unregistered
In my opinion, the auto-destruct sequence in Star Trek III is the most exhilirating part of the movie aside from the Bird of Prey decloaking part. In both score and the movie.
posted 03-23-2000 06:19 PM PT (US) 
Andrew Drannon

Oscar® Winner

Jeron:
You're right - it's 6 mins. I just thought I'd heard 8 somewhere. So, how's the additional music on this? Could you provide a track listing? It sounds quite interesting.Thanks
posted 03-24-2000 02:02 PM PT (US) 
ggd

Oscar® Nominee

i don't know too much about the whole re-use fees issue. however if gnp/crescendo (should) re-release a double cd to star trek 2-3 w/more music. this 2 cd set could be available only thru the net, limited copies, & sell it for about $30-35. just a suggestion, but i doubt it if they will consider it. in regards to first contact; not to fond of those songs on the sdtk. i can hear those 2 songs on my local rock station. i wouldn't say release the complete score but say about 55-60 mintues.
posted 03-24-2000 02:17 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

I'd buy an expanded ST2 for the Amazing Grace track alone! Also, I guess the ST3 CD doesn't include that beautiful rendition of the classic series theme, right before the end credits? At least that's the reason why I never bought it, 'cause I'd really miss that track.I'm in for the other expanded Star Trek scores, too. And when we're already talking about expanded scores, I'd love to see an expanded (and re-sequenced) Jurassic Park, too. The only track I can remember now that's missing is the T-Rex car chase, but I think that would already be worth it.
NP: Nothing, Reivers just stopped.
posted 03-26-2000 11:38 AM PT (US) 
Andrew Drannon

Oscar® Winner

Marian:Actually, the ST3 album DOES include that original series theme arrangement. It's combined with the end credits. The album overall is a great listen - especially the 8 minute "Stealing the Enterprise," an old-fashioned Horner action spectacular.
posted 03-26-2000 02:29 PM PT (US) 
Foobsie
Oscar® Winner

Here, here.... completely with you on the points made on ST II and ST III.About that 'Amazing Grace'...... did anyone notice that a Vulcan (Lt. Savek) was CRYING, thus capable/showing emotions. Back in those days you were shunned on Vulcan for that trait. Expelled..... an outcast you where.
Who's the script editor who screwed up?Wouldn't mind a complete expanded edition on DVD also, with alternates. Horner had a lot of alternates before he came up with his new and stylistic opening track for ST II. I'd like to know how he got to that.
But not from GNP Crescendo. Those guys always screw up a release, especially a Star Trek... (First Contact comes to mind) Wouldn't mind if Sony/Columbia Legacy continues her releases after the ST TMP disc set.
posted 03-29-2000 10:13 AM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

Not to prove I am too much of a Star Trek geek, but Savak was only half Vulcan, like Spock. She was half romulan. Which I guess makes her genetically full Vulcan but her Romulan half gets the better of her.
posted 03-29-2000 10:18 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

For the record: The Vulcan who betrays the Federation in STAR TREK VI (played by Kim Cattrall) was originally written to BE Saavik (sic). But they couldn't get Kirstie Alley to come back -- although why should that stop them? They'd already recast her in TWO pictures with the dreary Robin Curtis. But Paramount seemed worried about Nicholas Meyer's concept that Saavik should turn out to be a betrayer (which enraged Meyer, who felt he had made her character up from whole cloth in TREK II). I think Saavik's betrayal would have been a much-needed jolt of drama for STAR TREK VI -- especially the added ramifications of Spock's psychic "probe" of her towards the end -- a kind of jolt largely lacking in the finished picture, which I think is the weakest of the whole series except for INSURRECTION. We didn't know Kim Cattrall's character before, so why should we care? They should have just gone ahead and called her Saavik (she did look the part at least as much as Robin Curtis ever did, and is a better actress as well, though arguably misdirected in VI.)
posted 03-29-2000 11:45 AM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

I have heard that Gene Roddenberry himself (who was still alive when Star Trek VI was written) vetoed that Saavik, a character Trekkies have come to love, became a traitor. Personally, I think it would have been more engaging (and shocking... kinda like "I am your father!") if the original idea would have been left in place.
posted 03-29-2000 12:13 PM PT (US) 
Foobsie
Oscar® Winner

What do you mean: Savek was part Vulcan? and half Romulan. Remember the great wars at that time and the peace treaty in ST VI ?Peace with the Romulan Empire has to this stardate (Insurrection) not yet been established. Only a non-agression treaty.... a "cease fire" of sorts. The Romulans still despise the Federation. The Neutral Zone still exists! (ST:FC "We are ordered to patrol the Neutral Zone. In case the Romulans try to take advantage of the situation")
So I find that hard to digest that at the time when the Federation was at war with both the Romulan Empire and the Klingon Empire that they allow a part Vulcan/part Romulan/part Human officer in Starfleet!!! Think of the ramifications that it would have..... Lt. Savek a traitor (in light of ST VI THAT would make sense!!!) But no, not at that time. The Federation of that time was very discriminative of who it considered to be worth of the Federation. They were a bit xenofobic....And in STTNG "Unification" Spock first tries to bring both the Vulcan and their genetic siblings The Romulans together..... and fails in part.
Also The Enterprise C under command of Captain Rachell Garret was destroyed by a fleet of attacking Romulan warbirds.
So hostilities between the Federation and the Romulan Empire still remained and remain... (STDS9 -The Romulans decide to join the Federation in their battle against the Founders)So Savek is actually a product of a logic Vulcan and an illogical Romulan... It does not add up.
BTW: I am a Trekkie and I do try to study Federation law and history at my own time.
No Savek was a full blooded Vulcan. Spock himself was a bastard and considered an outcast on Vulcan. The whole Vulcan society saw the shame in that and a merger between "illogical" beings was not permitted as it would disturb the serenity of The Vulcan social structure. Spock himself was never considered to be truly "one of the family" as he himself pointed that fact out countless of times.
[This message has been edited by Foobsie (edited 29 March 2000).]
posted 03-29-2000 12:54 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

I will check, but my source is the Wrath of Khan Movie adaptation. It is also chronicled in there that she was the one who sat with Spock's body and re-arranged the torpedo so that it made a soft landing as opposed to burning up in the atmosphere as Kirk had planned.Saavik was raised on Vulcan. I don't remember how she came to be concieved but I don't think her father was around after that.
What happened in STNG is not germane to this discussion because all this was written years before Unification. I am aware of all the other points that you raise as well, but if she was, she was there!
Maybe a slip up on the part of section 31, but what can you do?
Spock was not considered an outcast as an adult. He was estranged from his father becuase he defied him and joined Star Fleet instead of the Science Academy. (ref Journey to Babel) His example encourage others of his people to join and it was that made well respected and a "Legend" according to his wife T'pring. (ref Amok Time) That is why by the time of TNG it is Ambassador Spock, not Cursed, Exiled Spock
BTW, I should hope you study that on your own time, as I would be extremely jealous if someone paid you to do it.

posted 03-29-2000 01:34 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

I always thought it kind of bizarre that Saavik (sic!!!!!!!) was half-Romulan, half-Vulcan as well ... but there may be some kind of precedent for it, look at the mini-affair between Spock and the Romulan Commander in that most notorious of Original Series episodes. (Although Spock being half-human already, perhaps he was more game than an ordinary Vulcan. But how did Sarek get interested in Amanda, then? Think too hard and it all falls apart ... let's just take it for what it already is, awright?)NP: THE BLUE LAGOON (Basil Poledouris)
posted 03-29-2000 02:03 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

H, in fact #6 is one of my favourite Trek movies. Although that Saavik plot would surely have further enhanced it.It seems that aside from #1 and #2, all the Trek movies are available on DVD. I'll have to get #6 and #8 sooner or later, don't know about #4 (which I love as well, but I don't know if I actually need it on DVD). #2 could be my favourite (it's Moby-Dick in space, after all!
), so I'd love to see that one released.Oh, and good to hear that that piece is on the Trek 3 album!
NP: The Lost World (Williams, great)
posted 03-29-2000 04:31 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

Here's one for you folks:Last summer at the Mile High Flea Market I bought a CD I thought was Herrmann's Its Alive II. Well the case and CD was marked that way only. When I played it, the music was very familar but I knew it wasn't Its Alive since I am familar with that music. As I listened to it for a minute or two I realized it was from Star Trek III. Best, John.
posted 03-31-2000 08:25 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
