-
Message Boards
Movie Soundtracks
Completism?Archive of old forum. No more postings.
Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.
Author
Topic: Completism?
JClark
Oscar® Winner
I've confessed before to being a "completist" when it comes to certain composers, in particular Williams, Herrmann, Doyle and Korngold. I know others have also described themselves as completists. While I don't consider completism a pathology, I'm curious about how other completists pursue collecting their favorite composers' works.Here are some of the particular questions I have in mind:
1. Which composers are the objects of your completism?
2. Do you haunt the various auction sites, looking for old LPs, or will you only purchase CD releases?
3. Do you (as I have recently begun to do) purchase bootleg "expanded" releases just for the sake of having a complete collection, or do you only buy legitimate releases?
4. Why do you do it? Do you find (as I do) that you end up with a lot of less-than-stellar music only because you insist on completeness? I have some real Williams clunkers in mind as examples: NOT WITH MY WIFE, YOU DON'T, DIAMOND HEAD, WITCHES OF EASTWICK.
Alternatively, I'd be interested in hearing arguments against completism--on principle or otherwise.
NP: HEIDI (Williams, no-dialogue CD, though I also have the dialogue-laded LP)
posted 04-26-2000 04:26 PM PT (US) Wedge
Oscar® Winner
You consider "Witches of Eastwick" a clunker?!? Do you mean the original album or the complete release? I actually prefer the original, myself.As far as Williams and Goldsmith and a few others go, I'd love to be a "completist," just for the sake of continuity and curiosity ... I just can't afford it.
posted 04-26-2000 04:33 PM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Oscar® Winner
In the case of Williams, I am a quite-completist. I don't necessarily need to have every recording of a piece that I already have in another version, and I don't need a score that I don't like (although I haven't really found one that qualifies for that by him yet). However, most of the scores where I completely trust him to buy them without having heard them before are already in my collection, so it doesn't often happen that I see a Williams CD and think, ok, I'll get that one.The composer featured most prominently in my collection next to Williams is Goldsmith, but because of the tons of scores he has written, and the great differences in style, I don't pick up anything by him. There ARE scores that I'd like to have although I've never heard them, though - Nimh, for example.
Still, I have that completist feeling and sometimes I'd like to have all their CDs.
posted 04-26-2000 04:54 PM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Oscar® Winner
...on the other hand, if I like a certain score, I usually want to have every single note of it. Especially because most of the time the album release doesn't include one of my favourite cues. Still, I don't have any bootlegs (except the Tsunami release of How to Steal a Million), because I don't like to buy from sources I don't know, and there usually aren't any bootlegs in stores...NP: The Ninth Gate - Balkan's Death (mp3 file from my harddisk, before I stand up and get a CD from the shelf)
posted 04-26-2000 05:03 PM PT (US) SEBULBA
Oscar® Winner
I have several composers which I like that I have pretty much all of their scores. John Carpenter, Christopher Young, and David Arnold. I have many, many, many, John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith scores.
posted 04-26-2000 05:31 PM PT (US) Dr.Evil
Oscar® Winner
I used to be a completist from several composers, Doyle, Poledouris, McNeely, Horner, Williams and Goldsmith.
Then I realize that problably I would never listen again for example Horner's Vibes.
So, I made a good money on them!!Now, the only composer I keep all scores(not the compilations, though) is of course John Williams.
posted 04-26-2000 08:13 PM PT (US) H Rocco
Oscar® Winner
I went through a "completist" phase in my earliest twenties, and happened to be feeling extremely flush. I figured I should have EVERYTHING by A LOT of different composers. Some of whom I was young enough and naive enough to believe, "I should have these just because." In a similar vein, I also felt I should own certain titles just because they existed. I'm not sorry I bought some of these, e.g. CHERRY 2000 and Georges Delerue's "London Sessions." But I was doing it entirely blind, thinking, "these are things I'm SUPPOSED to like." At that age, you could probably have talked me into being a fan of Mark Isham. (sorry, Isham fans)Now I've narrowed it down: These are what I MUST have:
Every Jerry Goldsmith; every Akira Ifukube.
Those are the priorities; that's where most of the available money goes (although I luck into freebies.)
Following that: Every John Williams; every Christopher Young; every Masaru Sato (THAT will NEVER happen, there're too many titles that nobody cares about and will never be anthologized). Every Bernard Herrmann, perhaps, but I've heard enough of his stuff to wonder if I haven't, indeed, heard it all. I'd still buy his stuff without knowing what it sounded like (and having a very good idea what it DOES sound like) (now Howard comes after me)
Following those fellows, I will only buy if I know what I'm getting, or, occasionally, on impulse. The few composers I've bought "blind" include Horner, Elfman and Zimmer. I won't buy Horner or Zimmer "blind" anymore, I've felt burned too many times, but Elfman is usually reliable -- although I didn't care too much for FLUBBER.
I see no point in buying LPs. Everything will come back out on CD eventually, plus even if I found an LP, I can't be bothered to try and dig up an old turntable that probably won't work anymore anyway (years of dust and so on.)
[This message has been edited by H Rocco (edited 26 April 2000).]
posted 04-26-2000 09:19 PM PT (US) JClark
Oscar® Winner
I've been quite fortunate, in that I burst out of my "earliest twenties" and into the working world at a time exactly coinciding with the great boom in rerecordings and Golden-Age rereleases. Accordingly, it has taken a relatively short time to catch up to speed, as it were, with the Williams and Herrmann and Korngold repertoire.I admit that my choice of those three composers as my completist focus (Doyle is a different story) proceeded in part from a conformist mindset--i.e., everyone likes Williams, therefore I should garner all of his scores. But I have been fully rewarded nevertheless; without that impulse I would never have bought MONSIGNOR, or THE CONSTANT NYMPH, or THE GHOST & MRS. MUIR.
But not even the sudden income stream (upon finally finishing school) could have protected me against bankruptcy had I followed his H'ness in becoming a Goldsmith completist. I admire those like him; and perhaps naively believe that Williams completism will serve as a good substitute for Goldsmith fandom.
NP: OBSESSION (complete, and every second of it marvelous)
posted 04-26-2000 10:14 PM PT (US) JClark
Oscar® Winner
Oh--and about WITCHES OF EASTWICK, I admit I should listen to it more, but its repetitiveness seemed, well, repetitive, at least by Williams standards.
posted 04-26-2000 10:16 PM PT (US) MattStar
Oscar® Winner
I must admit that I am an avid completist.
I basically have three that I have to own all.
Williams, Horner, and Doyle.
Since I have almost everything of these guys I'm starting a collection of Silvestri.
I only buy cds, and I am intrigued with bootlegs and complete scores especially in the case of Williams because his cd releases are so bad.
Speaking of Williams, JClark if you ever get tired of that Witches of Eastwick, just send it my way for a good price and everyone will be happy (well I would be happy).
My mother keeps asking me why I buy all these cds and when I think about it, I buy film scores because it provides me with a fresh source of "classical"-type music. Once I find a composer I really like that really affects me when I see and hear the movies they have done, I want to own and collect everything they have done so I don't miss anything.
posted 04-27-2000 01:32 AM PT (US) Lou Goldberg
Oscar® Winner
Again another interesting topic...just how one collects or should.I remember two friends who collected comic books. One guy was more of a dealer--he'd pick specific titles that he felt would be worth having. The other guy was more of a reader--he'd find a comic or character he'd like and then try to get all the comics from the set/series. I knew another guy who was big big into The Beatles--he owned every Ringo Starr solo album. One day he was playing one and he said--I don't need to have everything by every Beatle. From then on his philosophy became to get music he liked rather than everything by a performer he liked. Lastly, I knew one of the biggest collectors in the country, this guy had just about every domestic soundtrack and nearly all the foreign. His big thing was the quest and the deal. When he had a collection of just about all there was to get, he sold it all off. His thrill was gone.
I think it depends on what kind of a collector you are and what kind of a collection you want to have. Why do you collect? To listen to music. To have neat LP and CD covers to look at. To have a set of something you like or to have a collection where everything in it is a gem and the dross has been weeded out.
There are no set rules. If I tend to be a completest, it's only because I had to know for myself if a certain score was worth having or not. Thus I got tape copies of Diamond Head and Not With My Wife You Don't. If I was a completest, I'd want to have these albums. Do I play them? Certainly not as much as other Williams. Sometimes I look at my collection and say--Am I building a collection or an archive? I'm not sure--there's satisfaction in doing both. Nonetheless, buying music seems to me like watching movies--there's just too much to ever have it all so you have to pick and choose.
NP: Shaken and Stirred--The David Arnold James Bond Project
posted 04-27-2000 01:55 AM PT (US) Howard L
Oscar® Winner
"Every Bernard Herrmann, perhaps, but I've heard enough of his stuff to wonder if I haven't, indeed, heard it all. I'd still buy his stuff without knowing what it sounded like (and having a very good idea what it DOES sound like) (now Howard comes after me)"No, not this time, for I purchased both The Ghost & Mrs. Muir and Obsession before seeing the films--well, not totally; ocassional snippets, that sort of thing. Saw the entire Ghost on AMC soon after and have seen most of Obsession, though never one full viewing. Anyway, I'm not a completist, per se, but am a completist of the heart when it comes to Bernard Herrmann. Anything attached to his name commands instant attention.
posted 04-27-2000 09:41 AM PT (US) Thor
Oscar® Winner
John - I feel that you and I are very similar when it comes to soundtrack appreciation. This interesting topic is a further testament to that (In case you haven't read it already, here's a little something related to this: Where do you belong? - Categorizing the degree of obsession)Yes, I am a completist of TWO composers only: John Williams and Danny Elfman. And I'm beginning to become one of Elliot Goldenthal.
As for Williams, I own about 90 CD's of his (both scores and concert works), but I know that there is still a vast amount of stuff that I don't own - either because it never was released in any format (not even bootlegs) or because it's too obscure (like "Tuesday's Theme" from BACHELOR FLAT, released on an ancient 45). This is of course very frustrating, even more so because you know that you're SOOO close to completing the collection.
Evidently, this completism thing is the collector inside me speaking. But I've also learned something from that very collector, namely to appreciate other genres and musical styles. I mean, if it hadn't been for this emerging completist attitude, I would never had bothered tracing up and buying stuff like M SQUAD, DIAMOND HEAD, HOW TO STEAL A MILLION, THE MAN WHO LOVED CAT DANCING, FITZWILLY, the Irwin Allen TV series etc. etc. These are all scores that I have come to really LIKE and APPRECIATE, which would never have been the case had I not delved into Williams' mysterious past.
For the rest of your questions:
2. Yes, I use all sources available to me - e-bay, trading places, personal contacts etc. - to get what I look for. Things are somewhat complicated, though, since I am only able to pay CASH. No credit card or money order. Since I have donated my LP player to my younger brother, I have stopped looking for LP's, but those previously mentioned ultrarare 45's are still high up on my wish list.
3. I have never been into the expanded bootleg releases that boast horrible sound or a repetitive structure. There is a saying that goes "Kill your darlings!". This is what I felt I did when I got the expanded BORN ON THE 4TH OF JULY, LAST CRUSADE and HOOK. No, because I listen to the MUSIC and don't want to relive the movie in any way, I much rather preferred the original, shorter releases, but with good sound and a fluid listening experience.
4. Well, as I sais, the completomania opened my eyes (ears?) to new genres of music, so I'm really grateful for that. Of course, there is the occasional "clunker" (like ALWAYS or PRESUMED INNOCENT) but I can live with that.
posted 04-27-2000 10:11 AM PT (US) JClark
Oscar® Winner
Thor: My recent Williams acquisitions include:CHECKMATE (LP)
NOT WITH MY WIFE, YOU DON'T (LP)
HEIDI (Label X release)
FLUTE CONCERTO & VIOLIN CONCERTOHave you (or has anybody) tried listening to Williams's soundtracks in chronological order? I keep telling myself that I will. I wonder whether you'd be able to aurally trace his musical development--i.e., from jazz-based scores to cheesy 70's light orchestral to fully symphonic scores to his current eclecticism (compare Stepmom to Rosewood to The Phantom Menace to Saving Private Ryan). Of course, it would take forever, assuming you had a mostly complete collection to start with, and you might get bogged down in certain periods (like early 60's, mid-80's).
posted 04-27-2000 10:49 AM PT (US) Thor
Oscar® Winner
Yes, I have done that twice before, but that was when my Williams collection was considerably smaller.I am thinking of doing that very soon, however, starting off with M SQUAD and going all the way up to ANGELA'S ASHES. I think it is very easy to spot a gradual development, although Johnny never really "settled" in any genre. I mean, in the middle of his fluffy jazz period, there were his SYMPHONY NO. 1 and IMAGES (a little later, though). In the 70's, there was americana and refined orchestral scores side by side. It is his versatility that really impresses me.
John, I'd be interested in knowing which Williams scores you own. Feel free to e-mail me your list (if you have one) or post here. It's always interesting to meet other Willams completists and exchange "lists".
posted 04-27-2000 11:09 AM PT (US) JJH
Oscar® Winner
I'd be a Williams completist if it were possible....constantly scour the auction sites, but I can't ever get any of the Williams LPs, like Towering Inferno.
I like trading, but I'm running into the problem of everyone else getting something rare first, so I have nothing to offer to anyone (even with the 600+ scores that I have!).
posted 04-27-2000 01:30 PM PT (US) majestyx
Oscar® Winner
This is now the second response where I've found myself agreeing with H Rocco (the other was about Terry Plumeri) in his tastes in music and now with life experiences as well!I too was in the "if it's a soundtrack I'll buy it" mode, mainly from the time CDs were released to the early 90s. This died off for awhile, but now I find myself in that same mode again. Since we're mentioning age, I'm 30.
I started off replacing all my LPs with CDs. Then it snowballed into getting all or as much as I could of certain core composers. Then if it had a cool looking cover or was anyway related to horror I'd get it. My colleccting died down for awhile, mainly due to suddenly being out of a job and in a financial bind for about five years. That was actually a good thing because I was just about to buy a CD recorder when the prices of them were in the thousands of dollars and the blanks were 2-4 times greater than the cost of a retail release. I wanted one of these not only for film music, but so that I could put some of my LPs (mainly old and obscure heavy metal bands as well as some soundtracks - most of them which I never dreamed had a chance of ever being released although I've been surprised more than once) on disc so I wouldn't have to wear out my vinyl. Cassettes just weren't good enough for me. But they would have to do for awhile.
Eventually, CD recorders and blank media dropped to commodity levels and were available to the average consumer. I was recovering from my economic set-backs and the time was right to get back into collecting, although this was after having sold or traded some titles I could shoot myself today for doing.
It has now become a challenge to see how huge my collection can become while helping others along the way to acquire the scores they've been seeking too - give as well as get. While I'll admit I don't listen to, or even have the time or inclination to listen to even 25% of what I own, it's still a lot of fun to see how many disc racks I can fill up with film scores, not to mention my other musical tastes!
The composers taking up the most space so far are:
The most: Jerry Goldsmith
Runner-up: Ennio MorriconeThen it's kinda fuzzy...Williams, Horner, Silvestri, Poledouris, Young, Broughton, Elmer Bernstien, John Scott, Donaggio, Herrmann and Rozsa would be the next tier.
Now as for who I'd love to have a complete filmography of titles that haven't been listed already:
Harry Manfredini
Brian May
David Newman
Terry Plumeri
Graeme RevellWhile I have no delusions of EVER acquiring a complete collection of any of the above composers, I can have a lot of fun trying!
Lou Goldberg made some great points about it not even being the music necessarily. I can also empathize with Thor on his feeling less than satisfied or just plain annoyed with some of these "expanded/complete" bootlegs which are far from being complete. Until fans and collectors stop buying them, they'll keep making them.
posted 04-27-2000 01:33 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB