And since you and Chris feel so adamant towards the death penalty, what about innocent people on death row andcases with heavy doubt? If you believe that murder should be punished with another murder, than what do you with a system that possibly executes innocent people?

"no one in America spends life in a tiny cell."

What about prison?

For everyone: Does the death penalty really deter crime?Apparently not.

"If you believe that murder should be
punished with another murder,"

An execution is not the same as a murder. Check your dictionary.

NOBODY wants that to occur!

Least of all ME!

quote:

---

'Most of these works,' said he, 'will no doubt appeal to a republican, since they are written with such a sense of freedom.'

'Yes,' replied Pococurante, 'it is fine to write what one thinks; it is the privilege of man. . . . But I should be better pleased by the liberty which inspires these English masters, if the violence of party spirit did not corrupt all that is valuable in it.'

---

Would you please... lower your high standard for one moment...and SPEAK to WE here in the English language that WE understand?

And it has not occurred to you for even ONE MOMENT that there are a FEW of US OUT HERE who have NEVER come in contact with this literature?

Wedge...PLEASE!

As I have said before...you lack the "common touch" sometimes...

I was not coming after you, I just pointed out that you cannot take newsreports at face value.

About tiny cells and prison. Dude, come on, which country have you been living in? Prisoners have it better than some of our homeless. In fact, certain personlilties succeed in the prison environment much better than on the outside. Advice: Get in touch with your local law enforcement and see if you can get a tour through theri jail or prison system. I gurantee you will never call it tiny cells again.

About innocent people being excecuted. I agree with you there. This is a big problem, so big in fact that I would probably vote against capital punishment, not because I don't believe in it, but because I cannot trust the people behind the system. I would never ever support innocent blood being shed.

I can find as many people proving that capital punishment is a detterent as you can find one's who say it isn't. Buttom line, if there is one person who won't murder because of the thread of capital punishment, we have done our job. By the way, I don't support capital punishment because it is a detterent, I support it because it is justice.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Kinsinger:
If someone brutally murdered my wife and my daughter, I would forgive him. Jesus has taught me to administer forgiveness for every person, no matter what they may do.
.

---

Well,

you are much stronger than I am. Not that I couldn't forgive the person, I am sure the Holy Spirit would give me strength enough for that althoug I doubt I have to forgive if forgiveness was never asked of me.

Yet, Chris, anger is allowed. Naturally we cannot take matters in our own hands and venge ourselves, but we certainly can ask for justice and be glad when it is carried out. Murder is the worst thing in the world. There is nothing worse. It is easy to be on the side of forgiveness, mercey and the like until it happens to one's own family. I'm not that strong and perhaps haven't yielded enough.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
Murder is the worst thing in the world. There is nothing worse.

---

I beg to differ here. The worst thing in the world is deliberate corruption of the soul of another that results in spiritual death.
Physical death is less damaging by comparison.

Mark 9:42
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea."

huge strides are being made in the revelation of innocent people on death row.

But, BY FAR, most people are on death row because they deserve to be there. These are not kind souls who care about someone's eternal salvation or want to get to know you. They are cold-blooded killers who wouldn't think twice about offing you. Indeed, they've already offed a few people in their time.
We're talking violent, homicidal maniacs, who committed a pre-meditated attack.

if you wanna talk deterrence, sure, the death penalty has a long way to go. But I contend that the death penalty needs to be carried out in a public manner. I believe that when someone watching on TV or in a public area watched someone's eyeballs pop out from the electric shock, then we will get some measure of deterrence. We don't need lethal injections; we need old fashioned hangings, or stonings. Seriously,
How else would you plant the seed of doubt in someone's mind about killing someone?
by making them THINK about the horrendous consequences, and not acting in an irrational manner.

It sounds strange, but in one sense, though, the death penalty is absolutely deterrent:

The person executed will never again kill.

Is my attitude evil? maybe. but then, have you ever had a friend murdered? tends to change your opinion on things.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
if you want to discuss these issues, fine, but keep it wihtin our borders. Europeans generally don't give a darn what we think about them and we shouldn't give a darn what they think about us. Let's run our country the way we see fit, whether it is the way I agree or you. On the same token, let's not meddle in the affairs of other nations.

---

Actually, I started this all, and I'm European...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Kinsinger:
If someone brutally murdered my wife and my daughter, I would forgive him.

---

I doubt that I would simply FORGIVE him. But I wouldn't feel the need to have him killed.

quote:

---

However, the deliberate act of murder... violently robbing the very LIFE of another person is so INHUMAN

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JJH:
I believe that when someone watching on TV or in a public area watched someone's eyeballs pop out from the electric shock, then we will get some measure of deterrence. We don't need lethal injections; we need old fashioned hangings, or stonings. Seriously,
How else would you plant the seed of doubt in someone's mind about killing someone?
by making them THINK about the horrendous consequences, and not acting in an irrational manner.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
I'm sure that if somebody does NOT commit a murder simply because of the horrible death he knows that awaits him, he would also be reasonable enough to to commit the murder if he knows that he'll spend the rest of his life in prison. The murderers who do NOT care about this probably do not THINK about it, or maybe CANNOT think about it, but the prospect of execution wouldn't make much difference in this case. IF they think about it, lifelong prison would certainly be reason enough not to kill somebody.

---

But in that case murderers would also be irrational enough not to cover their tracks (and I know some are, but still) and we would catch them all easily.
Murderers are not deterred, not by life in prison, and not by execution, because they do not expect to be caught!! You can get away with a lot in this world, and that includes murder. If you do it well enough, you don't get caught, and even if you do, you can usually avoid punishment via a good lawyer without a morals. These are people who think they can get away with it; otherwise, they wouldn't do it.
The really sad thing is, they're right! They can and do get away with it all the time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Dunham:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Scott:
[b] Murder is the worst thing in the world. There is nothing worse. <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beg to differ here. The worst thing in the world is deliberate corruption of the soul of another that results in spiritual death.
Physical death is less damaging by comparison.

Mark 9:42
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea."

John[/B]

---

Nice quote.

I do believe that the soul is very strong and capable of overcoming anything. Yet when you take the physical life of anyone, he/she won't be coming back in this life time. There is no chance or possibility of healing when the body is destroyed.

Scott

I agree one hundred percent. Don't know why you addressed your last statment to me.

Yet, it is disturbing that there are still district attorneys who will hide evidence if it could prove they have the wrong guy.

Now I understand.

the thought of someone slicing another human being throat or chocking the life out of a child, slowly while the child (or adult) in the most desperate situation of their lives, hoping, praying to get out of the situation. Crying inside, more scared than at anytime before. Wishing their parents were there to protect them. Having been perhaps molested, beaten, for days. Trying to clinch on the last breath available,...trying to persuade the monster doing all of this to relent and stop...and then finally to give up their soul.

Yes, I would glady be the executionar if this were to happen to anyone of my close family. I believe in evil. I believe there are people out there who were born evil, are evil and will always be evil.

Chris, I know in a spirital sense we are all evil, but I think you know what I mean.

Marian and everyone else who so eagerly defend the guilty. What about the innocent. Those who were killed. All too often they are forgotten. Sure it is easy to demonstrate against the excecution of a guilty murderer, not knowing all the circumstances.

I am honest here. I always try to be. Take the life of anyone in my family, then may God have mercy on you for the way I am now, I sure won't.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
Marian and everyone else who so eagerly defend the guilty.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Dunham:
Murderers are not deterred, not by life in prison, and not by execution, because they do not expect to be caught!!

---

Not all, probably, but certainly many of them. Lifelong prison or death penalty wouldn't make a difference for them, at least not before they are caught.

quote:

---

You can get away with a lot in this world, and that includes murder. If you do it well enough, you don't get caught, and even if you do, you can usually avoid punishment via a good lawyer without a morals.

---

Sad but true.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Olivarez:
You know if I were to come across someone who murdered my family before the police caught him or her I would probably have no hesitation taking their life and dealing out my own capital punishment.

---

And would you agree with the following death penalty against yourself?

quote:

---

I'm sorry but I can't and will not forgive anyone for murdering a family member. They would have taken someone special from my life that can never be.

---

Agreed.

How 'bout them UCLA Bruins?

BECOMING a murderer to avenge another murder? BECOMING the very thing that you despise in order to mete out your own "justice"?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
[B](...although I have the feeling that we frightened some of the people who posted here )[B]

---

You said it. I loved this thread so much ... then it became a political (and, in some cases, moral) debate.

This is one issue which, whenever it comes to argument, quite literally drives me crazy. I'm constantly torn between empathy and justice ... or (and this is the one that is more frequent) between empathy and empathy.

All I am sure about is that I know, for certain, that I could never kill or "execute" (*a word some people seem to be using as a euphemism*) anyone. It wouldn't matter at all what they had done to me or to those close to me; it wouldn't matter how incomparbly enraged I was at them; when the moment came, and my finger was on the trigger, I know I would break into tears and fall to the ground. For me, it is an absolutely unthinkable act. So the question remains: is it unthinkable (for me) to allow someone else to do the killing? I honestly don't know.

hey, let's switch to something much lighter:

abortion!!!!!!

yes!

who's up for it?

just kidding guys (and ladies)..

NP -- The Challenge

How about them St. Louis Rams?

Joan...I prefer boxers.

Funny that you are the board mommy, cause my mom's name is Joan as well.