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Topic: Varese Fund Raiser

Hard Target
Oscar® Winner

What the f***! You know are decent people in the world ya know. What the hell is this? The kid, my friend is trying to get a simple answer to an honest question and you guys dump on him just because he's young and still learning bout this business. That's messed up, totally. If he has an attiude or an ego, BIG WHOOOP!! Everyone here has one too. I'm not complaining, but seeing a friend dumped on like that is totally uncalled for. It's good that you've given him the answer you feel is right, no complaints here. It's just the attitude in your responses that is not making him feel comfortable that's all. This board was designed for us to help each other out in a pinch. If you don't know anything, just ask and if someone knows the answer, then just speak your mind freely. But with class and respect no matter how old you are or who you are for that matter. And everyone's forgotten bout that. This hobby wasn't designed just for us, "The senior citizens". But also for the young people who want to learn and are just starting to really get into film music. That is the purpose of Varese releases, to reach the masses yearning to be free and up to their ears in film music because they want it and love it. Not bitching and whining, and who has the best scores in their collection. What have we turned into, egomanicial smartasses from the looks of it. I'm backing Scoreboy up because I was just like him once growing up and learning this business. And I f***ing love it because I love music and I wanna help people like Scoreboy fit in and learn the ropes. If you guys had any decency and compassion you'd do it to. In a way that everyone wins as a team, not every man for themselves and abandon ship. If you're that way then just take your ass over the FSM graveyard period. This place is like home and should be treated that way. With respect, honor and fun. Not this way. Peter K, I'd recommend that you pad lock this thread before it turns really nasty I really do. That's all I've gots to say.THIS MESSAGE WAS COMPOSED, ORCHESTRATED AND CONDUCTED BY D.G. AKA.HARD TARGET
P.O.
Enemy Of The State (Trevor Rabin/Harry Gregson-Williams) ***/****posted 08-10-2000 10:52 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Danny, did I miss something? I don't see this thread getting nasty. Actually, your post is the first semi-hostile thing I've read here. We're having a civil Q&A debate/discussion - which is totally alright (or at least, it used to be). I don't see anything wrong with our responses. You say we all should treat each other with respect. Of course we should! I totally agree. I don't think there's a disparity in my behavior where this is concerned - though I do feel at times that Clay wavers away from this philosophy. Peter gave him a polite, sensible response, and Clay turns around and calls it crap. That doesn't settle with me.Clay's a good guy with good intentions. I like him, but as Mark and several others have suggested, I think the real issue here is maturity. I look forward to Clay sticking around, as it will be fun to see him grow and mature - and learn about everything it is we enjoy talking about. He's got a great start as is. If anyone remembers, I started at Movietunes.com (PK's old place) when I was 14! Yep, 8th grade going into 9th. Naturally (last year), I followed him here when he moved, and for the most part, the people have stayed the same. As Shaun has suggested before, this is pretty much an online family (if you choose to view it that way). I choose to view it that way.
At one point, Clay said something to the effect of, "You don't know what it's like being 15 in today's society." or... maybe it was more like, "When's the last time you were in a school in today's society? Things have changed." Either way, my gosh, I'm 19. I'm not ancient. I still consider myself amongst the "youngsters" here, and by golly I take pride in that. I might be a sophomore in college, but I still have my share of friends who are in high school. Things haven't changed so much as to justify the behavior Clay displays in most of his posts.
Jeron
PS - Danny, bro - what does P.O. mean? That's racking my brain!
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 10 August 2000).]
posted 08-10-2000 11:22 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Well,so far we have called Clay, young, immature, stupid, a cry baby and what have ya.
Anyone surprised the kid is upset?
I am a person who does not believe in impossabilities. While Clay's idea might not work or probably will not work, for whatever reasons, there is no harm in trying. I mean, whom of us would have ever told Steven Spielberg go ahead and try getting into Universal studios by just putting on a suite, carrying an empty suitcase and walking past the security officer? Judging from the responses, no one.I came to California over ten years ago, knowing no one, having no family here. I had only $50.00 and was on my own for the very first time. My father had told me three months before I would not survive out here, that it was too expensive, basically that I would be back in two months. Well, here I am , and I never begged or slept on the streets. Many would consider this impossible, but it happened to me. I have a situation that seems hopless now, but I trust in God and in my determination to accomplish what I want to accomplish.
Clay, I think you took some of the comments wrongly, but by all means, do what your heart tells you. There may be a surprise in this yet. If all fails, perhaps you'll find another solution to release longer scores.
Everybody else, try looking at situations through other eyes, than yours alone. I know many people who do not act their age, according how society pushes it on them. I am one of them. I am 35 but I will be damned if I behave the way society tells me to. What matters in my life is what God thinks.
Clay had an idea. There were some insensitive commensts made. I wonder if the same tone of voice would have been used if this came from a 45 year old, and don't tell me a 45 year old would have never thought of this. I work with adults, I teach adults, a 45 year old is more than capable of coming up this.
It just buggs me that we do not have enough complexity, and versatility to see the world through the eyes of others, who come from different walks of life. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood, very sheltered, I have been in poor, violent and rich neighborhoods, I currently reside in a dangerous, rather poor neighborhood. Things are different, people see things different. Simply because you think an idea is stupid and won't work, doesn't make it so, does it now? I mean, who would have thought that David could have killed Goliath with a rock?
Scottposted 08-10-2000 12:12 PM PT (US) 
Widescreen
Oscar® Winner

Scott has a point.I recently told Scoreboy13 that he just needed to relax a little. The fact that he was young is a good thing to me, because he's learning as I think we all did about how things work in terms of the Film Score world. I think I learned more about it in the last two years from different aspects than when I was heavily collecting on vinyl in Middle School. I'm glad I'm calmer now about things, but I will be prone to passionate responses to things. I don't htink anyone's above it. I was just trying to tell ScoreBoy to relax. He's got all the time in the world. But that was about the hurrying in that particular thread.
Now, here we have a guy with a similar pet peeve that we all do, and he's trying to present a solution. No matter how against practical business theory it may be, it's not so bad. Good ideas sometimes start out bad and after a little creative thinking, something new and fantastic can come from it. And you know what? I think ScoreGuy can do that. It's harder, though, when the stressors that he may feel from reading the responses here keep coming up.
I remember when I was growing up and had a dream to make movies, just like so many other people, including some people here. There were people who didn't like me or the representations of my ambitions, or whatever reason they chose to think I was a loss, it didn't matter, because I somehow had the fortune of being told that my dreams belong to me and no one else can steal or own them. And while that's sometimes not true, in many cases, it is. I honestly don't think ridicule of any kind or criticism of any level will stop this kid, either.
Robert Townson should be thankful he has a commodity that elicits such fervor and breeds such fans of any age, sex, or creed. It should remind us all that Music is a universal language. This, in my humble opinion, is not an antiquated, idealistic, and naive notion. Music brought us all here. I've seen threads lately where a few people have acted like rabid dogs, snapping at the toes of any opinion, idea, etc. I know how this kid might feel. Angry, Confused, and a little persecuted. Or Bashed, if you prefer. There are people here, PeterK included who are gentleman in the sense that a guest should be made to feel welcome in this "Home". This place has been called a community, and in that community ideal, a certain amount of respect should be upheld. When a kid feels like his ideas are small, when a poster feels like he should no longer post here, when people from another board abusively obsess over people- that is when something has broken down.
It is not the fault of the webmaster. If you want to know who, even those that aren't guilty, all of us should take a good look in the mirror. We are human beings acting less than such in some cases, in others, trying harder than necessary. I urge all posters to find the balance. I urge you to do it soon before it's too late.
posted 08-10-2000 01:53 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Widescreen,thanks for that post. You touched on so many other points I failed to mention. Glad to see I am not wondering through my own set of woods.
Scottposted 08-10-2000 02:07 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Edited for the touchy.Shaun
[This message has been edited by Shaun Rutherford (edited 11 August 2000).]
posted 08-10-2000 04:50 PM PT (US) 
Tim_P

Oscar® Winner

LOL! I'm guessing Eloquence isn't your middle name, Shaun...
posted 08-10-2000 05:55 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Shaun tells it like it is. It's that simple - and I appreciate him for it. It eliminates a lot of the proverbial "beating around the bush." Admirable quality... takes guts.Jeron
posted 08-10-2000 06:03 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Shaun,perhaps you need to take some reading lessons.
First off, I never blamed anyone.
Secondly, people did say negative things. Stupid for example, that is negative in my book.
Shaun trying to be a bully doesn't impress me. Using a little wisdom on the once older goes a long way.
Scott
posted 08-10-2000 07:17 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Jeron:
Shaun tells it like it is. It's that simple - and I appreciate him for it. It eliminates a lot of the proverbial "beating around the bush." Admirable quality... takes guts.Jeron
Well,
I guess he tells it the way it is according to the almanacs of Jeron.
To be an ass is not admirable in my book Jeron, and you of all people know that. Shaun ****ed me off with that brainless, imature, untrue and completly bias remark he made. Had he had the sense of reading all the post and paying attention to what I said he would have never written what he did.
So you and Shaun don't like Clay,
that's fine but don't be asses about it, that serves no one.
Scott
posted 08-10-2000 07:20 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy15
unregistered
Thank you Scott, Danny, and Jeron and everyone who deffended me and realize where I am coming from. Peter, I like you, it's just bad things happen to me a lot and I take it out on people. As for Shaun, take you damn sunshine and stick it up your ****ing ass. Sorry for the language Peter, I hate Shaun if you can't tell.
Clay G.posted 08-10-2000 07:52 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Clay,I say what I believe. I have nothing against you but that last remark about Shaun was completely unnecassary and bad style.
How can you hate a person you've never met in real life? Shaun rubbed me the wrong way, big time, yet I don't hate him, far from it.
This can go on and on and I don't like it. Someone's got to give and use some common sense. I would hope it is the older, more mature ones.
Clay,
I don't want to preach to you, but letting things out on other people is wrong. It is easy to curse and disrespect people who you never see, just remember, on the other side is a real human being, with problems and feelings as well.
Scott
posted 08-10-2000 07:59 PM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

Look, this is probably going to be taken the wrong way by Clay, but Clay, if you are going to talk with that kind of language, I don't care how old or young you are. No more excuses about Clay being a young, immature little kid who doesn't know much about the world. If he's going to speak to the world like that, he better take what may be coming.That's it! Clay, did you call Varese yet and pass your idea along? If so, what did they say?
PeterK
NP - "The Mummy" by Goldsmith
posted 08-10-2000 08:13 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

It was apparent from day one that scoreboy walked in here with a mile-wide chip on his shoulder, aimed at ourselves and for anyone else unfortunate enough to cross paths with him. Someone like him only learns the hard way, and I only hope he DOES learn -- not for my sake, because I really don't care, but for his. Such hath the Jerry Springer generation wrought.
posted 08-10-2000 08:28 PM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Oscar® Winner

Hmm...Regarding the "download" concept, I have two problems with them...
- Napster and other, similar sites, are going down.
Napster must cease and desist operation in September; there is (at the moment) very few places for film score music on the web. While the idea that you could assemble your own CD from a service like that has merit, the simple fact is that it doesn't look like a plausible possibility anytime soon. - MP3s don't sound that good.
I've had plenty of people tell me that if the compression rate isn't so bad, the sound is identical to that of a CD, but every time they try to demonstrate it, they prove themselves wrong. While the differences are not as pronounced in music with fewer voices (jazz, rock, etc.), the presentation of orchestral music on MP3s is, quite simply, unacceptable.
Perhaps I am nit-picking because my sense of hearing is very acute (I hear those supposedly ultra-sonic sensors and dog whistles; hell, I don't even like Dolby Digital), but I demand performance from my equipment, and I like good sound from my CDs.
[This message has been edited by Swashbuckler (edited 10 August 2000).]
posted 08-10-2000 08:29 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by H Rocco:
It was apparent from day one that scoreboy walked in here with a mile-wide chip on his shoulder, aimed at ourselves and for anyone else unfortunate enough to cross paths with him. Someone like him only learns the hard way, and I only hope he DOES learn -- not for my sake, because I really don't care, but for his. Such hath the Jerry Springer generation wrought.I think you nailed it Rocco. Some of the negative replies on this thread confuse me. I thought all the replies to Clay were thoughtful and intelligent and started some interesting posts regarding Varese and scores. Remember we are not all kids here so we probably think our answers out a little more than replying "oh yeah dude that would be cool, man we get 250 people to send $5.00 bucks we can get all the scores we want." I think somebody needs to realize they are dealing with adults and not 14 and 15 year olds. If Clay doesn't want a thought out answer maybe he should start specifying just give me a yes or no on whether you like my idea or not. Seriously it would be nice if we could make donations to get scores released, but the reality is it probably won't happen unless you can make a substantial donation. And Clay you aren't the only one who has bad things happen to them. We all have problems in life, some small some large. But we all do our best to get on with life and not snap at everyone we come into contact with.
[This message has been edited by Mark Olivarez (edited 10 August 2000).]
posted 08-10-2000 08:43 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy15
unregistered
I talk to people that way because they are ass holes. Peter, do you hate all people who swear? See, if I swear, everyone comes down on me. If you swore, what would happen do you think? I haven't contacted Varese yet, and if I do, I wont notify anyone here cause I am no longer a part of this message board.
posted 08-10-2000 08:52 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Why thank you Mark. (At the sight of the down-thumb, I feared the worst.)Now that I think of it, there WAS something a BIT like what Clay is proposing: it was called the Varese Sarabande CD Club. The discs were more expensive, but they were rarer; we got such gems as THE BURBS, RAGGEDY MAN and CHERRY 2000 out of the bargain. Although even in the case of THE BURBS, Varese did not feel it could spring for more money than would finance a half-hour album. CHERRY 2000 seemed a rather cynical first choice, as well, since the score was recorded in Budapest -- i.e., no re-use rights -- and therefore didn't need to be priced higher at all. (Yes, it didn't come out in most American theaters, but neither did Maurice Jarre's JULIA & JULIA, Jerry Goldsmith's LINK or a bunch of other scores Varese DID release normally in that period. But I do understand the company's need to squeeze blood from stones. I'd probably do the same if I were in Townson's shoes.)
The only way to support Varese is to buy their product and not complete bootleg issues of the same scores they've already put out 28-minute versions of. See the dilemma? And it's not Varese's fault, it's the unions'. Remember the LA Times article that Ford A. Thaxton posted about the score-recording migration from Los Angeles to Europe? It's happening again big-time folks. Something will have to budge. I wonder who or what it will be. (Given the current rumblings around the screenwriters' and actors' unions, I think the musicians will not want to make a lot of noise right now, re: the work they're losing -- or at least, I think they'd be wiser not to, they'll just get lost in the chaos.)
posted 08-10-2000 08:52 PM PT (US) 
Hard Target
Oscar® Winner

I totally agree with Scott, what kind of response are you gonna get when you **** someone off. We're lucky if we don't get jumped for something like that. LOL
Jeron, all I was saying is that it is getting downright nasty in terms of helping one another. Like I said, everyone has an attiude, or a chip on their shoulder. Singleling Scoreguy out is really uncalled for that's all I'm saying. Come on guys, from the bottom on up, be openminded bout things and make this place like it should be a home away home. Drop it. Let bygones, be bygones. Okay.BTW, Jeron, P.O. means Personal Opinion hehehehe.
P.O.
Cocoon (The Original James Horner) ****/*****posted 08-10-2000 08:53 PM PT (US) 
Al

Oscar® Winner

What is the deal with this ridiculous melodrama??This is a message board on the internet.
posted 08-10-2000 09:55 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

Swash,1. I am not talking about downloading via Napster or anything else. I am talking about downloading directly from Varese Sarabande.
2. As far as compression rate goes at at 256 KPBS it is barely compressed at all. I honestly can't hear much differince if the compression rate is 192 or higher. However, They could just as easily post them uncompressed. On a highband width DSl line, it would take about an hour to to download a full CD if it was uncompressed.
Besides, this would be in addition to physical CD releases, not in place of them.
AS far as the rest of the melodrama goes, It is a bad idea to hate someone, better just to hate what they say or do. As far as cursing goes, it has been discussed and the group pretty much decided to live without it as it tends to inflame situations and makes your case weaker, not stronger.
Ahh.., The passions of youth. I remember Hating and Loving things with little degree inbetween. Too bad the world isn't that black and white.
[This message has been edited by MWRuger (edited 11 August 2000).]
posted 08-10-2000 10:14 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Know whatcha mean, Mr. Ruger.
posted 08-10-2000 11:24 PM PT (US) 
Thor

Oscar® Winner

Where's that sleeping icon when you need it?
posted 08-11-2000 05:22 AM PT (US) 
Widescreen
Oscar® Winner

Well, now the ScoreGuy has decided to leave, it's a sad moment. Not because of the person. I don't know him from Adam. I agree with Peter that a certain discretion of speech is appreciated. And I hate to sound anymore like a jerk to this kid, but it takes less intelligence to resort to profanity- it sounds kinda hokey but it's true. a vocabulary that reads like the script to a Quentin Tarantino movie (who I think has some great things to say intelligently on the story side- dialogue wise it's fun to listen to since it has found eloquence in profanity), mixed with blind profanity as the edge of "anger's spear" (god, that's way too flowery) usually means the mind is careless and has little sense of self-discretion and it's harder for that person not sound like he/she knows not how to communicate with a more intelligent delivery.That sounds a bit condescending, but it isn't meant to. Youth is no excuse for profanity. The bottom line is, for all his good intentions, ScoreGuy offended a couple of people here. This whole situation could've turned out differently. It's kind of sad how a little thought from the initial poster on his subsequent messages could've stopped all this. We could've encouraged him. I guess there's nothing we could've done, or him for that manner. And there's nothing that can be done now. I certainly learned something from this.
posted 08-11-2000 06:36 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

I got two things to say,actually more, but why bother...
1. Caly isn't the only one using bad language in this thread. Why he was singled out is beyond me.
2. To better understand my position I would like to tell you a story.
I was around 16, still living in Germany when my mom came home with a picture from a twelve year old kid, the son of one of her friends and she asked me if I would draw a portrat of him. Since I was drawing a lot in those days,(gosh the time I had then), I agreed.
About a week later, after I had finished the piece and handed it to my mom, I met the mother and she hugged me what seemed hours (hated huggs then, besides, I didn't even know the woman).
She sat me down and told me that the picture meant so much to her, that she could still see his soul when she looked into his eyes. During the remainder of the conversation she was crying bitterly. Just thinking about this brings tears into my eyes.
Anyway, she told me that her son, whose name I now cannot recall anymore, had always some problems with his temper and was very sensitive. Since he was a foreigner he got a lot of problems in that regard as well. One day his teacher gave him a hard time regarding his accent. He apparently got upset and told her if she didn't leave him alone he would go home and jump off the roof. Well, the very sensitive and wise teacher basically said, go ahead, do us all the favor.
Guess what? Yes, the kid went home and killed himself by jumping off the roof. Twelve years old.
I don't know what happend to the teacher, as far as I am concerned she should have been hung.Anyways, guys and gals, I have come to learn that people have all kinds of emotional problems, regardless of age, sex and race. We don't know what they are going through inside. We cannot compare our abilities in handeling certain situations with that of others. There are people who are mentally not able to handle certain situations as well as perhaps all of us can, at least not as well. This doesn't make them weaker, or lesser human beings, it just makes them different. Thank God, we are all different.
My mom suffers from manic depression. Most of the time she fine, then sometimes, she just goes into this depression that landed her in the hospital on certain occasions. My family doesn't understand how she can be depressed when she really has anything she wants, what they fail to understand is that this condition has more to do with the chemicals in the brain than a persons emotional state. They do not educate themselves.
I will rather die right here, right now before a person harms themselves or does anything negative because of my insensitivity, or thoughtless comments.
I sincerely hope that Clay is emotional more stable than he appears. I hope he will be alright, cause at this point, judging from his behaviour, which is hard to do on a message board, he may not be just a spoiled, brat teenager. He may have some serious problems, and one way to reach out was perhaps for him to come to this board.
Now I am not blaming anyone. I think PeterK's comments were very thoughtful. He basically told Clay that it would be difficult and the whys behind it but also encouraged him to give it a try and let everyone know what came of it.
I do take issue of the one post that called Clay stupid. That was uncalled for, and the post is still there. Well, it didn't call him stupid outright, but you know what I mean.
Look people, I am not easily offended. I also don't want to offend anyone and in a world of crybabies, I hate Politicall Correctness. Yet, there is a difference between PC and individuals who are on the brink of a breakdown, and yes you can be in that situation if you are still a teenager.
Perhaps we should feel people out before we talk to them. Jeron knows my humor, he knows me very well I know him pretty well. He is very close to me as far as closeness goes over the net and I can't wait to meet him in exactly a week. Yet I would never talk to some of you on this board as I do with him, for I don't know your sense of humor well enough. I try to be very careful with that.
Most of you know I don't curse, or I try not to , althoug Shaun did get me so mad the a... word came out, and for that I apologize and I do not support improper language, for it does reflect a lazy mind at times. Yet, PeterK, in all honesty, Clay was not the only one using such language in this thread.
What is it abut this guy that got to most of you? He wasn't VT after all. Now there is a guy who started to get to me? Weren't we all teenagers, thinking that the whole world didn't understand us? What if Clay was not 15 afterall, but 10, 11? Are you now saying it doesn't matter, you are not responsable, his parents are? Well, I think as an adult I am called to be respectful, caring, honorable, and careful with anyone younger than myself. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that I have a 9, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 21 year old nephews and nieces living just downstairs from me. Perhaps it is because I am bound by a different covenant than most. Perhaps I am just an idiot in a see of intellctuals. I don't know, yet one thing I am sure off, this is how I feel about the issue.
Clay, if you read this, I hope you come back. I hope you will be alright.
May God bless you...
May God bless us all!Scott
[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 11 August 2000).]
posted 08-11-2000 08:38 AM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

Scott,That is a very touching response, but we don’t know Clay’s back-story. Perhaps Hard Target could tell us more of why Clay responded as he did. We can only judge people by what they write. As I have stated on other threads, the bulk of communication body language and tone, and we get none of that here. We can only judge by what is written. We can’t assume that anyone who loses control of their temper has emotional problems and must be treated with kid gloves.
To me, Clay’s response seemed an overreaction to perfectly reasonable comments:
“Look, I was just trying to do something nice. I didn't think everyone would act like this.
Clay G.”
Reading the preceding comments from other posters, it seems that apparently Clay didn’t like the way people were responding to his idea. Fair enough, but he implies that people are “acting” a certain way toward him. He Wrote:
“Pete, why didn't you just say then, "Good idea Clay, I don't know if it'll work or not, probably not, but it's worth a try!" instead of all the other crap.”
This implies that PeterK and others responded to his good idea with crap.
From there the problem just got worse. I understand that he is only 15, but we are willing to let him speak his piece as an adult. That being so, he has to accept responsibility for what he says. I may loathe some of the things that VT and others have written, but I certainly don’t hate them. I don’t really think that Clay hates Shaun, but it is what he said.I just re-read all the posts, and I can’t find anywhere where Clay was treated any differently than any other poster. It is isn’t fair to say “I’m only 15 treat me as an adult” and then say “I’m only 15, how can you be that way to a kid.” That is the Catch 22 that Peter is speaking of. No way to win.
Personally, I hope that Clay comes back. But if he doesn’t then I hope he learns that you have to be responsible with your words. This thread did not turn nasty until Clay made it so. If he does have emotional problems, maybe he should seek professional care before his problems get worse.
posted 08-11-2000 10:26 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Yes,I hear you and I can agree with you on all parts.
I also think that when you are dealing with a teenager, you have to consider personality and their age, age as in actuall mind age not age in years. I could tell at the beginning that Clay was getting offended and offensive, that's why I never commented, because anything I would have said, would have been taken wrong from him. And yes, I do not know if he has emotional problems or is just a teenage brat sometimes as my own nephews, I never said otherwise.
Yet, if you know someone is already taking things the wrong way, do certain comments help the situation?
I quote:
Clay, why is it that all of your posts end up making you look like an immature *******? PeterK is speaking English. If you can't understand what HE's saying, you're in over your head already.This is what I see happening. Let's just say that your idea would GET to Varese and a meeting is set up with Bob Townson. He hears your pitch and begins to offer reasons why this might not work. Are you going to jump up and down, screaming, "Not fair, not fair! I didn't get my way! I have $5! Mommeeeeeee!!!!"
Learn to relax and listen to what people have to say. PeterK is giving you useful information, not jumping on your ass because you're young and stupid.
Nobody said ANYTHING negative toward Clay until he couldn't deal with the fact that people were giving him information that didn't "blow sunshine up his ass".
End quote.
Now you tell me, were those comments really needed when you already know the kid is near self combustion? Is it really a good idea to fuel the fire instead of trying to extinct it? And let's remember, there were certain posts that got erased that were borderling and that's why PeterK erased them for he knew they would create bigger problems. I am talking about Jeron's post which PeterK wisely deleted. The comment was completely not needed and I reckognized it immediately and was going to e-mail Jeron about it, instead we talked about it over the phone.
Let me put it this way, I think the situation could have been handled better by Jeron, Shaun and myself. I think PeterK did the best he could. Yet the three mentioned, including myself did some things wrongly. I for one should have either kept my mouth shut or talked to Clay somehow. Now all this resulted in a situation were I am upset with Shaun, bothered with Jeron and could slap the crap out of myself for speaking up in the first place for this has given me more grief than a box full of prunes.
All is well though in the house that PeterK built.
Scott[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 11 August 2000).]
posted 08-11-2000 10:50 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Scott - that e-mail I sent ya? I'm over it. If that's bothering you in any way, just forget about it. As for Clay, he'll be back I'm pretty sure. If not, he'll be in contact with me on AIM - and I'll talk to him there. Not a big deal.Jeron
posted 08-11-2000 12:47 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
Edited for the touchy.Shaun
[This message has been edited by Shaun Rutherford (edited 11 August 2000).]
Now that surly solves the problem doesn't it?If you consider me the touchy one, oh well. But please don't change your posts or your personality on my account, that's not how I am.
Shaun,
I will admit I got some issues now with you, yet I like to be fair and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. So would you be kind enough to either e-mail me or give me permission to e-mail you? I will sent an e-mail to you right now, I hope you will read it, for I am sure you are a standup guy and I know Jeron likes you and Jeron usually has a good sense of judgement when it comes to character (how he went wrong with me I don't know).posted 08-11-2000 12:50 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
Edited as to not offend Scott.Shaun
[This message has been edited by Shaun Rutherford (edited 11 August 2000).]
Ahh, so I am the touchy one. Now is this a joke or a geniune step towards understanding? You have not offended me. I'll e-mail you.Scott (the touchy? one)
posted 08-11-2000 12:53 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Jeron,
what e-mail?Scott
posted 08-11-2000 12:58 PM PT (US) 
Justin

Oscar® Winner

How bout we all say, "WHO CARES ABOUT THIS ANYMORE." This post has gotten so old so quick it's offensive to anyone still reading it. Let it die!
posted 08-11-2000 02:31 PM PT (US) 
Todd Reifinger
Oscar® Winner

Excuses, excuses. Scoreboy has never been rude to me personally, but neither his age nor his background excuses the way he's flown off the handle at people on this thread. I honestly can't understand how people can blame Shaun and Peter for this ridiculous situation. Scoreboy's supporters are saying that we should just be nice to him because, eventually, he'll mature and express things differently. Well, how's he going to mature (i.e. learn from his mistakes) if no one points out what he's doing wrong?
posted 08-11-2000 02:40 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

"Well, how's he going to mature (i.e. learn from his mistakes) if no one points out what he's doing wrong?"Todd,
That's what I was trying to say. I guess I got a little carried away. Maybe not. Either way, the post was deleted (even if it is still directly quoted in a post of Scott's).And, Scott---of course my deletion messages were a joke, man!
Shaun
posted 08-11-2000 07:25 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Reifinger:
I honestly can't understand how people can blame Shaun and Peter for this ridiculous situation. Scoreboy's supporters are saying that we should just be nice to him because, eventually, he'll mature and express things differently. Well, how's he going to mature (i.e. learn from his mistakes) if no one points out what he's doing wrong?Todd,
I never said Peter did anything wrong, in fact I backed him up.I think Shaun could have gotten his point across differently.
I never said we have to be nice to Scorboy, just pointed out some responses that I thought didn't help the situation.
Pointing out mistakes is fine, yet please there are different ways to communicate. Let me give you an example. I will be giving you a response to your post in a different way (this is only an example).
Gosh, what is it, don't people know how to read frick'n English?
Todd, your response is so braindead that it surprises me you were able to use your damn fingers. I never said the things you talk about. I just pointed out some stuff. You know, next time you respond to something, make sure you take some reading lessons first. In fact, I still got "Hooked on Phonics" that we used for my nephew, I can send it to you if you want me to.
You see, now initally this could be seen as a funny post or a nasty one. But if I know you are already mad, why would I get you even madder by posting this way?
That's all I was saying. Again, I did not blame Peter. I blamed myself, Jeron and Shaun. Now, if you have issues with that, I am sorry. Oh yes, and I came down hard on Clay as well for his behavior you conviently forgot to mention that.
Scott
posted 08-11-2000 07:51 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
And, Scott---of course my deletion messages were a joke, man!Shaun
Well, Shaun believe it or not you actually made me laugh. I laughed out loud. Nice one. I hope you know that I have nothing whatsoever against you.Scott
posted 08-11-2000 07:53 PM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Oscar® Winner

MWRuger, I am particularly grateful to you for your response.I understood that you'd be downloading tracks directly from Varese Sarabande, what I was attempting to point out (and I admit, I wasn't doing it very well) is that Napster and whatnot have to cease and desist due to copyright issues; there are other issues in film music, most notably is this one:
You can not make me believe that the same Unions that are causing these 30 minute albums to be released are not going to want to get some form of compensation for their members for Web Downloads.
This is only fair, and if the music was being made available for download then they will indeed be quite interested. Particularly if the music is not released in any other form (although you said these tracks would be available in addition to a CD).
However, this might work in that posting tracks to download eliminates quite a few costs to companies like Varese, including the CDs themselves, jewel boxes, artwork, layout, printing, etc. However, compared to the prohibitive re-use fees, these costs are fairly minor.
Let's say Varese is charging you for each download. How much would a reasonable price be? Would it be variable if you download more or less tracks? What if you downloaded a few extra tracks for one score, then came back later to download even more? Would you pay more or less for that?
Your second point is quite interesting, although perhaps a bit dependent upon people upgrading their technology. Most of the people I know are still using dial-up modems, connecting at speeds much lower than 52K (don't ever believe that little icon on the bottom right hand corner of your screen).
I am not trying to criticize your ideas, MWRuger, I'm only trying to get a better grasp on how a process like this might work. If anything, it should be obvious that my interest has been quite piqued by your ideas...
________________________________________________________________________________________
Regarding the Scoreboy issue, which I have avoided until now...
While I see no reason to be uncivil to anybody on this board (except Daniel2), I also think that the progression of Scoreboy's posts prove that he wouldn't be happy unless everybody agreed with him.
PeterK was very forthcoming, polite and informative. Scoreboy's reaction got increasingly more agitated.
I appreciate that he may be disturbed. I appreciate that he may be young. However, the trap was set (whether intentionally on his part or not) and there was not much that could be done to protect his little feelings short of "yessing" him to death, and there really was not point in doing that as well.
I would like to get more people's input on the issue that Scoreboy raised, however, and ways around it... so far MWRuger is the only person still talking to me...
[This message has been edited by Swashbuckler (edited 12 August 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Swashbuckler (edited 12 August 2000).]
posted 08-12-2000 08:21 AM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

There are some interesting concepts regarding the online availability of Varese scores in their entirety.One of the bigger concerns facing Varese if they dropped producing CDs and had score tracks available only online is that of the built-in marketing of a CD. Sure, the avid score fans know about Varese Sarabande, but the average moviegoer still does not. When browsing CDs in a real store, people are often very caught by soundtracks as they bolt through the soundtrack section to get their favorite pop CD somewhere else in the store. What attracts them to stop and peruse the soundtracks? The movie artwork for sure, and the fact that the number of soundtracks out there, including scores and song albums, as grown quite large in the last 10 years. My point is this: Varese still collects a good bit of money from the "ancillary" market, the people who maybe buy one or two score albums a year (most probably compilations like Towering Inferno). Not every person who is a potential buyer of a Varese soundtrack even knows about Varese's website. Having a CD sitting on a shelf in a store as a marketing piece is absolutely worth the money it took to manufacture and distribute it.
If Varese were to think about offering score tracks online, there is a lot of homework needed to be done. You might think it would be easy for Varese to just put up a site and offer downloads AND keep shipping CDs to stores. The problem is Varese still has to pay license fees on everything that ships, whether it's doanloaded or bought in a store. For example, if 3,000 people decided to download the music off the web site, yet Varese still sent the same number of CDs they usually send to the stores, now they have 3,000 licensed CDs out there that will not be bought in a store. A waste of money for Varese! Homework, homework!
Those are some thoughts. Of course, there really need to be a lot more people connecting to the Internet at much much higher speeds.
PeterK
NP - "Citizen Kane" by Herrmann
posted 08-12-2000 09:18 AM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

I forgot to address the potential success for Varese to offer their back catalog via the Internet!Now, THAT is the perfect idea for online distribution of music. We're talking the older titles that are no longer selling in stores that Varese still has the distribution rights for (although online distribution might require an entirely new licence arrangement, which moots this whole discussion of a back catalog).
Varese should get on this quick if it's possible. They can start printing little adverts for this availability on their newer CDs - just a simple line like "download your favorite movie soundtracks online at VareseSarabande.com"
I would love to see this! I don't think it would be such a huge cash cow for Varese, but it would still open up the catalog to the fans that truly enjoy this music.
Of course, a secure form of downloading and preventitive measures for mass reproduction of these files is what hampers all of these ideas. Just look at the blooming number of bootlegs, "private" recordings and CDRs of full scores that are floating around! That's probably the biggest reason not to get into any of this at all. Can't blame Varese for this.

PeterK
NP - "Citizen Kane" by Herrmann.
posted 08-12-2000 09:29 AM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

Swash,Well, actually I was thinking that Varese would still be paying reuse fees and the like. Further, as I envision this as a supplement to regular publication, they would still have to do cover art.
My idea is basically that they would charge 5 - 6 dollars for a complete download of the album. As to what it costs for Varese to produce a CD...Well, they are really the only ones who know what they need to make back on discs.
But having worked in distribution, I can tell you that anywhere from 50% to 40% of cover is what the distributors pays to the publisher. So, for a 14.00 CD your looking at 6 or 7 dollars, and that is before removing manufacturing costs.
Could they get it down to 5$? Maybe, but even 6$ puts them in park of what they are probably getting now.
Varese would set up a secure site from which you would purchase the right to download a certain amount of data (Ratio sites already keep track of this kind of thing) at a certain bitrate. You would be given a password that would allow you access to those files.
Of course, they could do 75-cent singles if you just want one track.
In addition, Varese already has a vast discography of scores they have already paid reuse fees for. Scores that it would be not be profitable to do a second printing of would definitely be a prime choice for this service.
As to the technological restrictions, Varese should post at 196 KPBS on up and let people pick. You’re right that many people are still on dialup, but that will change over time and as far as that goes, they could always just get the album in the traditional way.
To sum up, Varese would have to start this on a gradual basis, possibly without
out-of-print scores, and as technological increases allow them move into the area more and more.posted 08-12-2000 09:37 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
- Napster and other, similar sites, are going down.
