Clay G.

Clay G.

NP What Planet Are You From? Complete (Carter Burwell)

For example, if What Lies Beneath sells 8,000 units, and Varese makes 5 bucks per disc, that's only $40,000 in net revenue they make on the disc. Licensing 50 minutes of music recorded in Hollywood costs much more than this. Plus, we can't forget all of the other costs involved in producing a CD on top of all this. Here's the point: why would Varese sell something for less money than it cost them to make? If they did that, THEN they would be hurting for cash. In fact, they'd be in debt pretty quickly!

Let's be thankful Varese releases anything at all. I am just fearful that these file sharing services like Napster are going to significantly hurt companies like Varese. We can only hope that the musicians' union eases up on the demand for high-flying royalties, and that distribution costs go down so these CDs aren't quite so expensive.

PeterK

quote:

---

Originally posted by PeterK:
Clay, I don't think Varese is short on cash. Their position is not that they cannot afford to purchase anymore music for their 30 minute albums. A beancounter at Varese came up with the numbers: licensing a 50-minute score recorded in Hollywood would not return a profit for them. They know this because they've been selling score soundtracks to the market for 20 years now.

For example, if What Lies Beneath sells 8,000 units, and Varese makes 5 bucks per disc, that's only $40,000 in net revenue they make on the disc. Licensing 50 minutes of music recorded in Hollywood costs much more than this. Plus, we can't forget all of the other costs involved in producing a CD on top of all this. Here's the point: why would Varese sell something for less money than it cost them to make? If they did that, THEN they would be hurting for cash. In fact, they'd be in debt pretty quickly!

Let's be thankful Varese releases anything at all. I am just fearful that these file sharing services like Napster are going to significantly hurt companies like Varese. We can only hope that the musicians' union eases up on the demand for high-flying royalties, and that distribution costs go down so these CDs aren't quite so expensive.

PeterK

NP - "The Wild Rovers" by Goldsmith

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Well Pete, if this fund raiser got started, then maybe they would have enough money to purchase more music like you said they can't do. That way they'd be making a profit still from us. Get it?

Clay G.

Good luck, Clay!

PeterK

quote:

---

Originally posted by PeterK:
I am just fearful that these file sharing services like Napster are going to significantly hurt companies like Varese. We can only hope that the musicians' union eases up on the demand for high-flying royalties, and that distribution costs go down so these CDs aren't quite so expensive.

PeterK

---

I don't think we should worry too much about Napster, since scores rarley appear there.

This letter was sent to mleneker@webtv.net (mark leneker) in reply to his
questions about VARESE's sometimes rather short CD's of original soundtrack
recordings.

Robert Townson, V.P of soundtracks answered and it was posted to www.filmscoremonthly.com.

Within the body of this letter Mr. Townsend gives his permission for " Please
feel free to disseminate any of this information that you wish"

So in an attempt to promote some rather lively discussion, here is Mr.
Townson comments on Varese's various 30 minute CD releases.

Ford. A. Thaxton

___________________________________________________________
From: Robert Townson

Dear Mark,

Your note was forwarded to me and I thank you for writing it.

I will try to give you as much of a general overview of the re-use
situation as time and space permits.

Let me begin by clarifying that the amount of music, and indeed every
aspect of each CD release is something that is taken very seriously and
given careful consideration. Varese Sarabande Records is not a faceless
corporation. Varese Sarabande is not "Big Brother." With rare
exceptions, the decisions of what we release are my own. The content of
each CD is determined by myself and the composer. To this end we are
both, however, forced to work within the economics of the industry. We
want to release as much great music as possible but do have constraints.
Over the course of a year, Varese Sarabande will release CDs of all
lengths. Many 30 minutes CDs. Some 40 minutes. A number of 50 minute
CDs. A few 60 minute discs. And a few more over 70 minutes. Just over
the last couple of months there has been Moby Dick, Merlin, Othello and
the new James Horner compilation all containing over 70 minutes of
music. Obviously it is the 30 minute variety that creates a problem.
Believe me, no one, no matter how dedicated a collector, is more
troubled by the situation than myself. I am forced, time and again, to
request that a composer cut his score, however long, however brilliant,
down to thirty minutes. The economics enforce this. No CD exists by
itself. The output of a year's worth of releases must turn a profit.
They must pay for themselves to allow for the next year's releases. Each
year the re-use fees go up by a few percent. We have now had enough
increases so as erase much of the benefit of the 50% break set in place
nearly ten years ago now. Unfortunately, it is impossible to go into the
degree of detail that would fully explain how all of this works. No film
or CD is a guaranteed hit. Furthermore, a successful film does not
automatically translate to a successful soundtrack. I think it would be
fair to say that neither Starship Troopers, Sphere or Small Soldiers
turned out to be as successful as the film studios might have hoped. The
point here is that these films are not the exception, they are the rule.
It is the surprise three hundred million-dollar blockbuster that is the
exception. We can not budget each album in the naive hope that it will
be the next E.T. We must be prepared for the fact that it just might not
be, and probably won't be.

Re-use fees, as they are, will be causing an increasing number of scores
to go without any release all. The percentage of albums which simply are
not paying for themselves is simply too great and growing. I am, more
often that ever, being forced to pass on soundtracks that I would
otherwise love to release. I used to be able to justify a release for
some scores even when we knew, or expected, right from the beginning,
that they would probably realize a loss. I could do this in the hopes
that if they didn't lose too much, then perhaps some of the slack could
be taken up by another release that may have done better than expected.
These were musical decisions, not financial ones. I have relationships
with many composers that will cause me to bend over backwards in order
to help them get their scores released. There is, however, a limit to
the number of loss leaders you can responsibly allow. The bottom line
will show itself very clearly if the balance tips against you.

Did Jerry Goldsmith want a longer CD for Air Force One? He sure did. We
both did. In fact, in this case we paid for an additional five minutes
of music but still would have preferred to add more. Jerry very much
wanted to add the Russian choral piece. The problem was that it was a
big choir, overdubbed three times! Here re-use would need to be paid to
each singer, for each overdub -- this on top of the 90-piece orchestra!
If I remember correctly, adding that extra minute and a half would have
cost about twenty thousand dollars.

Did Elliot Goldenthal want a longer CD for Sphere? Absolutely. Here the
problem was compounded by the fact that he recorded part of the score in
New York and finished it in San Francisco. To include music from the New
York sessions we have to pay the re-use. For Elliot to have included
even one minute of music from San Francisco, since it was a different
orchestra with different musicians, would have started the re-use clock
back at zero and doubled the cost of the album.

When we extended both of these releases by five minutes seemingly no one
was any happier. To do this we had to absorb significant expenses. But
still the problem remains. I should point out here, however, that a CD
may be limited for artistic concerns as well, and very often is. Neither
I or any composer I work with supports the notion that every minute of
their score should be represented on CD. Even Spartacus, one of the
greatest scores ever composed for film, would not be best represented by
every note appearing on CD. Alex North, personally selected 70 minutes
of his score for Jerry Goldsmith and I to record someday. Not one
hundred and however many minutes of music he wrote -- 70. He was given
no restrictions. This was a musical decision.

Michael Kamen's piano score for The Winter Guest could have been a 76
minute CD-- had there been that much music. There wasn't.

Jerry Goldsmith's Fierce Creatures score was recorded in London. No
re-use. It could have been as long as we wanted. The score, however, was
barely 20 minutes! To release a CD at all, even at thirty minutes,
necessitated Jerry staying in London and additional 10 days to compose
fifteen minutes of music just for the CD. He did this over the
Thanksgiving holiday in 1996 and I don't think anyone even noticed.

Marco Beltrami and I were both aware that there would be some unrest due
to tbe length of the Scream release. We are bound by union rules and
must remain fiscally responsible with Varese Sarabande's money. We can
not act like we are shopping on an unlimited credit card. As they always
do, the bills will come in. Obviously both scores were in danger of
disappearing into the phantom zone of unreleased scores. We saved as
much of each as we could. The CD contains Marco's favorite thirty
minutes of music from the films. Originally, we had included his song I
Don't Care from Scream, but were forced to remove it at the studio's
request. This cut our thirty five-minute disc back to thirty. Sometimes
you just can't win.

I suppose all this is to say that we are doing what we can within the
restrictions that are placed on us. We care very much about making the
best CDs possible. I make it a point to include cut times on the inlay
card for every CD I release. For anyone whose primary concern is
duration, the information is all there for them to make an informed
decision, before they buy the disc. No one can justly claim we tried to
conceal anything about the disc.

Customers who are truly "regular customers" of Varese Sarabande Records
will find themselves with a full array of variable running times in
their collection. The reasons for this, as you can see, are as many and
varied as the scores represented.

Again, many thanks for your thoughtful note. I hope you have found some
of what I have said enlightening. Please feel free to disseminate any of
this information that you wish.

Sincerely yours,

Robert Townson

Vice President

There you go, Clay. If you have time to read it, there is Robert Townson's response. Exactly what I summed up in my first post.

PeterK

NP - "Logan's Run" by Goldsmith

Varese Sarabande Records
11846 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 130
Studio City, CA 91604

Tel: (800) 827-3734 or (818) 753-4143
Fax: (818) 753-7596

As a provider of content with a loyal audience, Varese is an excellant position to pioneer this effort. They could sell single use licneses for 5$ a pop that would allow you download MP3 (Encoded at 256 KPBS) of a score with cover art.

This would let them cut most of the production costs assoicated with score release. Further, marginal scores could be released using this method only.

MWG, you are on to something, but at this point, charging $5 bucks a pop still wouldn't cover the costs facing Varese. The music unions with their current re-use fees probably costs $5 bucks per disc as it is! No revenue for Varese? I don't think they got into this business to break even!!

Interesting thoughts though, as something like this just may be what unfolds.

PeterK

<B>Here's the point: why would Varese sell something for less money than it cost them to make? If they did that, THEN they would be
hurting for cash. In fact, they'd be in debt pretty quickly!</B>

Of course, I may be totally wrong and this post could be the result of me being intoxicated from my iced tea. Hmmmm... I swear that was Equal I used as a sweetener.

Back to work!
Jeron

But of course, you may be just purely interjecting a joke. So, I will laugh again, as I did when I first read your post!

Clay G.

Please explain.

PeterK

Make suggestion was in the form of an additional publication method. They would still need to do disks. Most people, despite what the RIAA thinks don't have the capability of making their own cds. (That might be a good idea for a poll, who has a CD burner)

But having worked in distribution, I can tell you that anywhere from 50% to 40% of cover is what the distributors pays to the publisher. So, for a 14.00 CD your looking at 6 or 7 dollars, and that is before removing manufacturing costs.

Could they get it down to 5$? Maybe, but even 6$ puts them in park of what they are probably getting now.

Is there anybody out there who knows what music distributors pay on average for CDs?

Consider this, Varese has MANY scores that are out of print that they have already paid re-use fees for. They would be perfect for this kind of service. They could even out source for other houses if they get a working business model going. The thing is, they need to do this NOW, before somebody else beats them to it.

PS. I realize that other people could make copies, but as this is already happening, I don't see this as a huge additional risk.

I'm amazed at the volume of Varese's backlog that HASN'T been reissued in any form. True, there may be Hollywood musicians' union technicalities at play regarding some of them, but any number of scores Varese released (esp. in the early days) fall outside this purview, whether because they were recorded outside the US (e.g. pretty much all of their John Scott or Ennio Morricone or Pino Donaggio releases), or were recorded in the US, but non-union (prety much any of their horror scores; or in the case of the synthesizer ones, there's no re-use to be paid other than to the performer, and even then, most of those were non-union as well.)

I've wondered why Varese hasn't made Maurice Jarre's lovely score to THE BRIDE available on CD -- they did the LP, there must be reasons why there was no CD, but it can't just be boxoffice success (Jarre's superb ENEMY MINE came out in the same year, and that movie was roughly as big a flop. Actually, I'm sure it lost a lot MORE money.)

Clay G.

NP The Rock (Media Ventures Gang)

Just send a short email to Varese and ask them about your idea. If they answer you with a "Great idea! Get people to send the money in and we'll produce longer soundtracks!" please let me know. I will then apologize for everything I've said above. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the answer you are going to get from them.

PeterK

Clay G.

NP MK-A (Various)

The reason I didn't give you the line you wanted me to give you was because I didn't want you running off saying I gave you a crappy answer. So, what do I do? I take TIME out of the busy schedule I am running to try and explain something. And you call it crap! Thanks a lot, my friend. From now on, I think I'll call you Catch22guy.

PeterK

I see my post got deleted as well, although I didn't think it was offensive.

Strange.

I'm confused.

This has been an utterly bad, bad, day.

Well, for what it's worth, I apologize, although I haven't the slightest clue for what.

Either:

1) the comments are uncalled for (in the charitable sense) and really have no place here.

OR <---- "OR" not "AND"

2) the comments made have nothing whatsoever to do with continuing the discussion.

Scott, in your case, it was 2). Your post was something like "I was gonna say something, but now I am not." Alright, so why post? I removed your post that you were going to never make anyway.

In Jeron's case is was 1). No more explaining to do, as the parties are taking care of the personal business elsewhere.

I wonder if I've spent half my life trying to explain how I work as an adminguy of a message board rather than posting messages about the subject!!

Night!

PeterK

While it may seem like apples and oranges, they are still both businesses and both have to make a profit in the long run. I don't see amazon.com surviving considering their balance sheet (even with all the money that has been thrown at them - it's great for consumers, but bad for business since anyone can sell products easily when taking a loss), whereas Varèse must be selective in order to insure their survival and to be profitable, not to mention keeping everything legal. And since this is a movie score discussion site, I'll stop discussing my stock market opinions now!

The main thing to keep in mind is that Varèse is indeed a business and must play by the rules. I'd doubt they would or even could accept money in a fund raiser without tax implications or someone in the federal government raising a ruckus, even though those same politicians don't blink at campaign or political party fund raisers. (I hear ya, apples and oranges again...)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
This has been an utterly bad, bad, day.

---

Ehm, Peter,

I was not referring to you removing my post, which was ment as a joke, but rather to the day I had yesterday which was one of those days where you seriously would think you are under a curse.

Lol.

Here I am replying to my own post, although I am talking to PeterK. Lol.

If Intrada, FSM and Prometheus can do limited releases for 20$ (with a print run of 3000), then others chould too. However, my advice would be to petition those worthy groups for what one wants.

Just keep in mind that not everyone agrees on what should be released. Further not everything can be. I love the Prince Valiant release that FSM did, but if more of the tracks had been had deterioted there would have been no release.

Clay G.

To remain on topic, did you call or email Varese yet, Clay? I am waiting to hear what they have to say, as I am sure many others are.

PeterK

Shaun

Hasta!