yeah, pretty busy.

he probably has to start writing the score for Episode 2 in the next 6 months as well so as to allow for the inevitable re-edits, and possible re-scoring.

gosh darn it. That truly sucks!

David Shire, or

Lee Holdridge....

But, hey! Who says imagination, creativity and proven talent will play any part in the decision making.

--Kyp
Writer/Editor

1. He is a "name" since Titanic. Nothing succeeds like success. He is a bankable, oscar winning composer
2. He is willing to bend his music to serve the movie at the cost of the music. If a producer says I want something like Braveheart, then he will give them something close enough to conjure Braveheart without being a rearrangement of that score. (Remember, Movie Producers are seldom score lovers and they don’t hear and wouldn’t care about his “borrowings”. After all, they are some of the biggest “borrowers” around!”)
3. His music is emotionally evocative and he will use any trick necessary to convey the director’s emotional intent. Including shameless manipulation and pandering that other composers night shy away from.

Anyway, and all this is IMHO, of course, but both Legends of the fall and Braveheart were both ruined for me precisley because of Horner's incessantly whining, complaining music.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Pulliam:
Two composers who would be perfect for it:

David Shire,

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Here here Ron! Shire would be so great for this film, if his score for RETURN TO OZ is any indication.
Another long shot, and a left fielder, would be Chris Young! I can't stop promoting this composer's work, I feel he's capable of anything.
Just thought it would be nice for a change from the sappy Hornerfest we will probably get now,but what do I know....I've never read a paragraph of HARRY POTTER!

It isn't important (to the producers) whether his stuff works in a film or not. That is a judgement that only happens after a film is released and scoring is long since done.

quote:

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Originally posted by MWRuger:
HAL 2000,

It isn't important (to the producers) whether his stuff works in a film or not. That is a judgement that only happens after a film is released and scoring is long since done.

What is important is that the Producers THINK it will work and to them, that's all that matters.

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I've been looking forward to this score since I read the first Potter novel about a month ago (I'm reading #4 now). The whole thing CRIES for a Williams score, like if it was written for him to score it.

**** . (Sorry).

I'd give Potter to Doyle now, but considering that his Stepmom got replaced, this doesn't seem likely. *SNIFF*

I think producers can be pretty visionless when it comes to music. There ARE plenty of talented, underused, cheaper (isn't Horner pulling in a 1M a score now?) costing composers out there--but in this case often its the director who chooses, and CC certainly has pull.

Certainly there are less expensive composers deserving of a shot but See Point 1 above. Nothing Succeeds Like Success.

Considering that they are going with an all brit cast and some of them likely to be largely unknown, that should leave plenty FX and a paltry Million for JH doesn't seem out of line.

quote:

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Originally posted by MWRuger:
It will depend on how the studio views it. If they view it as a prestige project and the budget is accordingly huge then, it will be a "Name" composer.

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It's HARRY POTTER!

quote:

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Considering that they are going with an all brit cast and some of them likely to be largely unknown, that should leave plenty FX and a paltry Million for JH doesn't seem out of line.

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Another reason to give Patrick Doyle another chance. He's got a name by now, and he's British, too.

I've never read any of the Harry Potter books, but from what I've heard about them I'd like to see someone like Mark McKenzie or maybe John Scott getting the gig. Ain't going to happen, though.

quote:

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Originally posted by MWRuger:
1. He is a "name" since Titanic. Nothing succeeds like success. He is a bankable, oscar winning composer

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James Horner has been a success since the mid-80's. Believe it or not, there was music composed before 1990. Have you forgotten Star Trek II & III, Cocoon, Willow, Krull, Commando, 48hrs, Rocketeer?! This man has been around and seen it all. I think his music reflects the changes in time. People call him a hack. I beg do disagree. Yes, he may sound like classical music. Yes, he may sound like John Williams, or Jerry Goldsmith. But these are mere enfluences. So what if he uses the same instruments in his music? That is his style.

Horner has been around for a hell of alot longer than alot of these other newer composers that we are all listening to now...like James Newton Howard, and even Danny Elfman. There must be a reason for that. The fact that he started writing big orchestral music around the time that John Williams was in his prime merely adds to his success.

You guys all suck. I hate to be the one to say it. I hate to be the one who is negative. I even hate the word suck. But I'm sick of people comming up with excuses to bash Horner. Give it a rest. Horner's music is good. It's not awesome, but it is good. You guys are way to harsh.

quote:

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Originally posted by MWRuger:
2. He is willing to bend his music to serve the movie at the cost of the music. If a producer says I want something like Braveheart, then he will give them something close enough to conjure Braveheart without being a rearrangement of that score. (Remember, Movie Producers are seldom score lovers and they don’t hear and wouldn’t care about his “borrowings”. After all, they are some of the biggest “borrowers” around!”)

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James Horner has earned his criticism as well as his praise and if it's "bashing" to voice an unflattering opinion of his music then how else are we to express ourselves?

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Well, I think your reply is a little harsh. I am well aware of James Horners 80's output.

If you read my post again, you will see that I was responding to the question of why producers love James Horner, not commenting on his musical abilities or lack thereof. Actually, he is in my top 5 composers mostly for his 80’s work.

Regarding your points about his relation to other composers we are enjoying now, I would agree. In the 80's he was in about the same position as Howard Shore, Danny Elfman, and James Newton Howard today. Well known and respected, but not the first person you think of for a score IF YOU ARE A PRODUCER. Titanic changed that.

He is in the elite group of composers like John Williams and Hans Zimmer as being composers who have scored major box office successes that were also viewed well by the academy and producers. His Titanic score sold well thus potentially increasing marketing revenues. His willingness to bend his score to suit the desires of the director/producer makes him easier for them to work with.

From a BUSINESS viewpoint, it makes his scores highly desirable and that was the sole point of my post. I certainly did not view my post as "Horner" bashing simply because I pointed out reasons why the businessmen in films like him.

Perhaps your comments would be better directed to a thread where posters are complaining about his "borrowings" than in one where we are simply discussing his popularity amongst producers and our disappointment in hearing that John Williams might be doing it.

And the same goes for what he says about Horner – he’s a good composer, but he is an even better film composer.

Horner is all right. I have a large collection of his and yes, I think he gets a lot of bad rapp lately (whether deserved or not) but the guy does know how to compose music.

A note about James Newton Howard...he has been around, orchestrating, composing, and arranging for a long time now, even longer than James Horner. It is his music scoring career that began later.

Neither myself, or AaronR1074 (as far as I can see), has characterized Horner as a film-scoring god.

And, MWRuger certainly hasn’t characterized Horner as a film-scoring devil. All he has done is list a number of very valid reasons why Horner has garnered so much success over the past decade, whilst also intimating that Horner’s propensity for recycling and re-use of existing musical ideas may reduce the creative value of his film scores on the album (certainly) and even within the movie (this is where I disagree).

By the same token, AaronR1074 has wisely pointed out that Horner’s proclivity toward furnishing the musical requirements of the movie at hand based substantially on the wishes of the filmmakers is as it should be – that is what the film composer is hired to do.

Therefore, I think it fair to say that Horner is a remarkably successful film composer whose approach to his task does not necessarily endear him to the soundtrack enthusiast.

I am not commenting on the merits of music in the films he scored. Again, read the post. I am commenting on why producers might prefer Horner over other composers. I am not intimating anything. I will state in plain words what my opinion is regarding James Horner's music in the appropriate venue. Which this is not. But I must say that I honestly feel there is little to be gained from yet another thread on why we Love/Hate James Horner.

This thread is about his popularity amongst producers and our disappointment in hearing that John Williams might not be scoring Harry Potter.

AaronR1074:

Of Course, that is what he is paid for. I am sorry that you feel I am castigating him for that. I am not. I am merely stating that the willingness to do so when other composers are not makes him more attractive to directors and producers.

As far as listening to classical, of course I do. Your statement seems to be in the vein of “You don’t like the USA? Move to Russia, pal!!” Is he to be immune to further critique because he has been criticized in the past?

the god-devil was an analogy of the fact that there seem to be people who just can't stand Horner and other's who believe Horner never makes a boo-boo. Never did I want to appear that I am pointing the finger at anyone for using the exact term devil or god.

In my opinion, Horner sunk "The Perfect Storm." I found the whole movie loathsome (okay, not the whole film. The WHOLE film should have been about those rescue workers. That was interesting stuff.)

Horner's music had me ready to rip the hair off of my skull. "Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... Du-du-DU-DU-du-du ... " ad nauseum.

I am aware that many people loved this score. This is one movie which I already wanted to walk out on, and the score didn't help.

But back to the issue at hand: Daniel2 is right. Horner's style may get him jobs, which he does well, for the most part, but it doesn't endear him to soundtrack enthusiasts. I already have "The Pagemaster" and "Willow" and "The Rocketeer." Unless I want even more re-arrangements of these themes, I'll probably see no reason to buy "Harry Potter."

My favorite Horner score is Jumanji, and I'd love to hear Daniel2's thoughts on this one.

I'm going to suggest Bruce Broughton. Anyone remember "Young Sherlock Holmes?" "The Rescuers Down Under?" "Heart of Darkness?" Broughton has the children's adventure/fantasy mode down pat. And unlike Horner, he makes it sound new every time. He gets my vote if Williams does indeed step down. In fact, I'd ALMOST be more interested in hearing a Broughton score than a Williams one. It would probably run less of a risk of being too saccharine.

Just my two cents. Excuse me whilst I go hide from Marian.

I don't think a Williams Potter would be saccharine, though. I nearly hate "When You're Alone" from Hook, but there's no place for a song like that in Potter. I think the only chance to include a song in the score is that strange Hogwarts song, but that one certainly can't get cheesy.

Anyway, regarding the thoughts that the rumous of Williams bowing out are not really official; has he ever been officially announced as composer for Potter? I really don't know, but www.harrypotter.com doesn't say anything about it (of course, that doesn't mean a thing, we all know how important film scores are to most people).

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