quote:

---

Andre, come on man. Please exhibit a little maturity. This thread was totally unnecessary, and you know it.
Jeron

---

Not if you take the thread metaphorically. I used to be a major Zimmerfan. Getting every piece of music he composed. Until after The Rock. Haven't heard a good score since. Some average ones, and some really poor ones, but not ONE which I want to listen to more than once.

I don't think Zimmer should die. Certainly not a physical (or mental) death. But his career in film music should certainly be terminated. He's become extremely annoying and he's only taking up space which could be filled by more competent people like McKenzie, Bramson, Stone (Chris), Stone (Richard), Ross, McCarthy, etc.

--Bri
Writer & Film/Video Editor

quote:

---

"Zimmer should Die."

---

I don't think you have anything to worry about, Andre. Like every human without a Death-Becomes-Her potion, Zimmer will die. The only things not certain are when he'll depart, how he'll depart, and the number of scores he'll compose until that time comes.

I speak the truth.

Tim

I'll somewhat agree with what you've said about Zimmer's Thin Red Line. While this score isn't any more musically "mature" than The Rock, it does evoke very different emotions.

I happen to be a member of the party that subscribes to the notion that a lot of what Zimmer does is nothing but great mastery over computer programs and sound samples. He's got a great ear to do what he's doing without many roots in musical education (I will admit, yes, the word "education" can sometimes be a formal recognition of certain traits or instincts people possess).

Sure, I like what Zimmer's done, but I wish the MediaVentures fad will go away soon in Hollywood. It's been there far too long; Zimmer and crew have had their success. Anything in the future (wistiti's proposed future began with The Rock) will be bland to boring. I am ready for what's next.

quote:

---

People always bring up "The Rock" as one of the reason to "dis" Hans. HANS DID NOT CREATE THE ROCK!!!" He CONTRIBUTED to it. If you want to satisfy your need to blame someone, blame Nick Glennie-Smith. He wrote like 60% of it anyway.

---

What's the difference?

One of the things about Media Ventures that annoys me and many others is the fact that there seems to be no difference between its contributors. Sure, Nick Glennie-Smith did most of The Rock, but would you really know that if you hadn't read the credits? No. It sounds exactly the same as it would had Hans Zimmer done it himself.

quote:

---

Wistiti, you make me sick... Seriously... That is the most moronic statement I think I have EVER heard..

---

First of all, the Media Ventures sound does not sound that new to me.

I'll never understand why Zimmer is credited with having invented it.

The only thing that he did, was extend upon what Doldinger, Hammer, Moroder, Fiedel and Faltermeyer, as well as Toto (with their Dune score), were doing long before Zimmer wrote his first score. He only added one more step to the stairs they had built.

As for saying that someone like Beltrami or Young, (and I would add McNeely, Ross, Mann, Walker, Stone, and lot of others to that list) are better than what come out of the MediaVentures breeding stables, the statement is perfectly right.
I doubt Zimmer will ever be able to control the power of full symphony orchestra like those composers do. His "talent" has limits. And he's pretty much reached them.

Has he matured in the past five years? Definitely. Then again, that's precisely the problem. Zimmer's got the Peter Pan syndrome. Grow up, stop having fun. I used to enjoy Zimmer's scores. They were fun. They were good. Now, he's become serious. Mature. Boring. Makes me yawn. I don't care about his music anymore. I switched over to Rabin. He reminds me of what Zimmer used to do 8 years ago.

And as for enjoying The Rock, and being 10 years old, I could pretty much say the same about The Bravados (Newman/Friedhofer), or Cutthroat Island (John Debney) or The Phantom Menace. Say what you will about Zimmer's and Media Ventures' "dumb" scores. At least they had something to enjoy without having to analyse every single element. When I listen to music, I want to listen to something which I enjoy. I'm not there to analyse the orchestration, or the development, or the mastery. If I like it, I like it, and that's the end of it.

Doesn't matter if it's called the Rock, or Ghost and the Darkness (Goldsmith), or Spartacus (North) or Evening Star (Ross) or Dracula dead and loving it (Mann) or Tale Spin (Stone) or Armageddon (Rabin/HGW), or The Yards (Shore), or Les Misérables (Petit) or It's My party (Poledouris) or anything else.

Thin Red Line may be one of the best crafted scores in a long time. Good for Zimmer. But I'm not a music student nor a professional critic. I don't care about that. I'm what Thaxton calls a "fanboy". I'm just there to listen to the music. Not dissect it. The Rock serves my purposes perfectly.

NP: Ransom (Horner) **/***** There, a 2 better Jeron?!?! =)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
What's the difference?
One of the things about Media Ventures that annoys me and many others is the fact that there seems to be no difference between its contributors. Sure, Nick Glennie-Smith did most of The Rock, but would you really know that if you hadn't read the credits? No. It sounds exactly the same as it would had Hans Zimmer done it himself.

---

Actually you can make the difference. The same way you can differentiate between Rosenman and Shore, you can differentiate between Zimmer, Powell, Rabin, Mancina, Gregson-Williams, Harper, Fowler, Rona, Rifkin and the rest.

Each has elements not found among the others. Listen more often, and you'll hear them. Listen to the Rock enough times, and you'll perfectly differentiate where Glennie-Smith ends, and Gregson-Williams begins.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hasta:
PeterK, saying that Chris Young and Marco Beltrami are more talented than some of those at MV is an opinion, not a fact.

---

Hasta, I never compared anyone and stated no facts. Read carefully, please.

I think we all know you don't like Zimmer, Andre. You perpetually make it blatantly obvious. I don't particuarly care for Williams' music (though I have the greatest respect for what he has done for the world of music) but I don't create totally juvenille posts like "I WISH JOHN WILLIAMS WOULD DIE BECUASE I DON'T LIKE HIS MUSIC".

If I did that I would quite possibly be banned from this board and make for myself, 50000 new enemies.

I enjoy Zimmer's music for the most part. He is one of my favourites. While certain scores can become repetetive on CD, within the constraints of the film its written for (where it's meant to serve it's purpose) they work, IMHO, as well as a score can. (With the exception of M:I 2, again IMHO, which didn't work for the film that was also pretty damn bad).

Get off the Anti-Hans Zimmer bandwagon Andre!

Your posts are getting tiresome. For a guy over the age of 21, you're not acting like it.

I personally think Zimmer is maturing and slowly working his way out of Synth based scores. Gladiator, M:I 2 and Hannibal being perfect examples.
Hasta is right though, the "MV Style" has been around for a relatively short period of time and it develops along with the composer/s and technology, but there are so many composers working in film today making use of synths.

Newton-Howard
Glass
Horner
Goldsmith
Elfman
Newman
Kamen
Poledouris
Goldenthal
Arnold

PeterK, I'm inclined to disagree with you about Zimmer's work not changing. I'm not familiar with his earlier work (such as Black Rain or Days of Thunder) but just compare Broken Arrow to As Good as it Gets to Gladiator to M:I 2 to Hannibal.

All vastly different works of music that shows *ME* how Zimmer's capabilities and skills are expanding and changing.

If MV will ever be remembered for, I hope it's for these people.

quote:

---

Originally posted by André Lux:

he is getting bald!

---

What's THAT got to do with the price of cheese?

And leave those poor Nazi Pigs alone. What harm have they ever done to anyone? I suppose we'll just eat them eventually.

Mmmmmm, cheese & bacon sandwhiches. Yummy.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PeterK:
You might want me to say I'm tired of Goldsmith's music because he's been at it for more than 40 years, but I won't say anything of the sort. Goldsmith's style has dramatically changed from decade to decade. Just listen to Patch of Blue and The Edge back to back. These two scores have the least bit of stylistic similarity - to a person not familiar with Goldsmith's body of work, not one person would guess the same composer wrote them both. You can't do this kind of thing with a Zimmer creation.

---

I think comparing Goldsmith's body of work with Zimmer's is a tad silly. As you said, Goldsmith's been scoring films for over 40 years. Of course A Patch of Blue and The Edge are going to sound drastically different- they're separated by 32 years! Now, if you just look at Goldsmith's last 15-20 years, you can very easily find similarities between Lionheart and First Knight, Rudy and Powder and Hoosiers and Forever Young, LA Confidential and City Hall, Congo and Medicine Man, King Solomon's Mines and The Mummy... just in the same way you can draw similarities between
Drop Zone and K2, The Lion King and The Power of One, The Peacemaker and Crimson Tide and Black Rain and Broken Arrow...

Of course you'll also be hard-pressed to find similarities between Drop Zone and As Good As it Gets, The Road to Eldorado and Black Rain, Mission: Impossible 2, and The Thin Red Line, Hannibal to Crimson Tide...

I think your argument will only have validity when 25 years from now Zimmer is still scoring Bruckheimer crap with his Crimson Tide sound...

Tim

Just the facts, please:

- J. Goldsmith rules and is handsome.

- Hanzimmer stinks and have bad breath.

This is so childish, I can't even comprehend its' existance. No, I'm not being a stuck-up prude, but my definition of "having guts" doesn't involve posting a topic, with blatantly inflamatory content, generating this infantile crap, going back and changing the content to something that makes even less sense on this board, and then piling more crap on top of it. Hell, even I'm guilty of shoveling, it seems, but for cryin' out loud...!

Shame on you pal!!

And please, don't come with that "But I returned in the end using a huge beard and killed all the bad guys" because it was too late. And everybody was killed because of you, in the first place!!!

some of us like Zimmer, some don't, some are inbetween. Fair enough.

But Andre, to call someone a Nazi pig just because they are German is for one thing borderline name calling, completely innacurate and offensive.

To wish someone to die because you don't like their art, is simply immature.

I dont' get offeneded easily, but it happens that I am part German and never,ever supported what Nazism stands for. This is stupid, it is wrong and it shows a degree of inhumanity that cries to the heavens.

I wanted to avoid responding to this, but I simply can't. There are many members on this board from Germany or from German descend, and to throw all of them into one banner and call the Nazis (which you essentially did Andre, even if you just ment Zimmer)is fricking wrong.

And no one cried out about that fact. That makes it even worse.

Well, at least Zimmer never chose to bang blindly on an organ to score a sci-fi scene. Wait...here comes a statement from "BEING ANDRE LUX"...I wish Ennio Morronic would die.

Scott, what ta hell are you talking about, my brother??

The nazi pigs comment has nothing to do with Huinzinza, the almost bald DEMO key hologram!

And where do you think LUX come from, mate? Portugal??

You guys can't take a joke!!
Oh dear...

I think Zimmer's style has evolved somewhat, inasmuch as he is attempting works like THIN RED LINE and whatever PEARL HARBOR will turn out to be. It's true, however, that the MV school is basically echoing precisely the style Zimmer established as early as BLACK RAIN in 1989.

But they're also giving producers what they want -- right now. Mostly for junk like THE ROCK, ARMAGEDDON, FAIR GAME, ENEMY OF THE STATE and a whole bunch of other titles I can't even remember.

Of the younger originals in the field -- Christopher Young, Carter Burwell, and so on -- they will continue to write the same idiosyncratic music they always have, and are meeting with increased success with it. I thought Zimmer was one of these as well for years, when he was producing scores as various and striking as RAIN MAN, BLACK RAIN and PAPERHOUSE.

Media Ventures has found its niche, and I don't see anything particularly wrong with it -- think of the horror the old school composers felt at the influx of people like Giorgio Moroder, Harold Faltermeyer, Sylvester Levay, or a bit earlier, Isaac Hayes and even Lalo Schifrin and Burt Bachrach. Now Hayes and Bachrach are pop icons, and Schifrin seems to have more fans than ever.

I will peripherally agree with one of the K's points: I think Zimmer may well have reached his limit, as far as artistically maturing. As I've written before, when he shoots for deeper projects like THE THIN RED LINE or THE HOUSE OF THE SPIRITS, I don't find the results are very interesting. He may well surprise us, though. I didn't think Vangelis could have pulled off 1492, but even at the time (in *1992* not *1492*!) I thought it was one of the best scores he's done.

The Zimmer/Moroder comparison might be the most apt: Moroder writes decent pop tunes and his electronic sound WAS appropriate for pictures like CAT PEOPLE and AMERICAN GIGOLO. But I wouldn't want him unleashed on SCHINDLER'S LIST or FARGO. In the same way, Zimmer's superficially affecting music for BACKDRAFT (one of my faves by him), RAIN MAN and DRIVING MISS DAISY, all fine for the pictures, also seems to display the precise LIMITATIONS of his craft. I fear we'll be hearing no PATTONs or JAWSes from him (and decades later, Goldsmith was still pulling off THE RUSSIA HOUSE and RUDY, and Williams SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET and JFK.)

Although I think Zimmer does deserve credit for trying to branch out, so far it's not working. Re: PEARL HARBOR -- I'm crossing my fingers.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quill:
Well, at least Zimmer never chose to bang blindly on an organ to score a sci-fi scene. Wait...here comes a statement from "BEING ANDRE LUX"...I wish Ennio Morronic would die.

Now I feel bad...

---

Poor Quill. He thinks I get mad when he tries to mock Ennio Morricone last masterpiece, MISSION TO MARS!

Ok, I almost get mad, but them I remember he likes GLADIATOR, that ridiculous score cloned by the almost bald Noisemaker and lots of people.

Say no more!