Boo Jeron. Yay my record store employee past.

Shaun

That should teach some of you to think before you speak...type...whatever.

This thread has been productive, no?

Lancelot, I guess we now know why the music sounded just like Voyager. Because it was.

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Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
Jeron, why are you so defensive?

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Hmmm... good question, I'm not sure. Oh, and Shaun, in case you didn't see...

a damn Voyager CD?

This friend of mine has to be, bar none, the most *musically* educated and knowledgable person I have ever met or with whom I have talked. He's also one of those classical-snobs-who-hates-film-music-because-it's-not-original kind of people.

That addressed, he mentioned that the ONE thing Jerry Goldsmith had composed that he really liked and thought deserved praise was...

...his Voyager melody.

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Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
Scott, not to argue,...

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Then don't gosh darn it!

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
Regardless of whomever has composed this piece, the latent hypocrisy displayed here has negated any argument made against Horner's or Zimmer's works, in the past or in the future. Some individuals here are immediately prepared to "exonerate" Goldsmith (despite having no evidence of the actual composer), while casting stones at other composers. How can this be justified?

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Goldsmith has copied in the past (there are Copland lifts in The Flim Flam Man and Wild Rovers and the theme from L.A. Confidential is just too similar to On the Waterfront), but he doesn't put a score together out of used parts. Horner often crams not one but several stolen elements into a single score. (There's Williams, Khachaturian, Goldsmith, and old Horner in Aliens, Copland, Khachaturian, and old Horner in Clear and Present Danger, Scott, Rota, and old Horner in Honey I Shrunk the Kids, Prokofiev, Goldsmith, and the Wolfen theme in ST III, etc.)

NP: Instinct (Elfman

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
So now it's not a matter of being guilty...it's a degree of guilt?

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I never said that Goldsmith wasn't "guilty" of plagarism, so this question seems to be aimed at someone else. But yes, "degree of guilt" does matter, since other composers are less chronic in their borrowing than Horner.

What has been said here in the past is this: Horner is bad because he "copies" others.

Now what is being said is Horner is bad because he "copies" more than other composers.

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
Note: Not to endorse Film Score Monthly here, but I'd like to recommend that all of you read the FSM column today (Thursday, 10/18).

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That article seems to imply that we should never express our dislike of a particular composer. The author suggests using some "logic" to clear up the differences. Logic isn't going to solve the problem, either, since opinions are usually not logical arguments.

My goal in life is not to spread the gospel of film music. I just want to sit here, buy the music, and enjoy the scores for myself. Everybody else can listen to Britney for all I care.

We're never going to agree on everything, which is what makes us human. Opinions are just opinions. Perhaps the author of that article needs to look up the meaning of that word.

Your supposed "selfishness" is your God-given, Constitutionally reinforced right. Realize that some of us here would like to see more film scores in the future, and in order to do, we must encourage all of the composers as individual artists. Film scores and their audience are often marginalized by the music industry--too often the identity of the composer is of little concern to the music industry, or the audience at large.

The FSM article isn't about expressing opinions over one score, or the conflict between opposing opinions, but about neglecting the artist. A one-hit wonder on the pop-charts often gets more recognition that a score composer--and who is working harder daily?

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
No, you quite clearly said Goldsmith was guilty--the question was aimed at you. However, the intent to praise Goldsmith and condemn Horner is implicitly hypocritical.

What has been said here in the past is this: Horner is bad because he "copies" others.

Now what is being said is Horner is bad because he "copies" more than other composers.

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I suppose I misunderstood; your question seemed to imply that I had been involved in this debate from the beginning and had been claiming that Goldsmith wasn't guilty of plagarism, when in fact I had only made one post. It seemed like you were addressing me as part of a collective.

I encourage the composers by purchasing their albums. I doubt they make much money from a typical score release. However, I'm sure Robert Townson is making a fine living and we all know the musicians get their cut.

Just the other day I created a new thread to let people know about some new Alan Williams promos listed at Intrada. How else am I supposed to support or promote these artists? For some reason, I don't think posting flyers around my university campus would help much. Bumper stickers probably wouldn't work, either.

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
Bumper stickers probably wouldn't work, either.

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But that's a cool idea. Who here would want to buy a Goldsmith bumper sticker?

Dan

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
But that's a cool idea. Who here would want to buy a Goldsmith bumper sticker?

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Originally posted by Jeron:
Where can I get one???!?!?

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Umm.... send me money. I'll figure something out!

For Elliot Goldenthal:
... Brass glissandi? That's me honkin' you!
... My other car is the Nostromo.
... Slow down if you don't wanna hear a 'clang'.

For Alan Silvestri:
... Forgive my speeding! I need to be on time!
... Slow down! This car's like a box of chocolates: it costs a friggin' fortune!

For James Horner (oh boy):
... This car contains recycled parts aplenty.

Eeesh....

Those are pretty good, Kosh!

I'll have to think of a few over the weekend...

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
It's ok, most of us are a collective here (assimilation instructions will be e-mailed to you, anon) and the world is against me 95% of the time, so....

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Well, maybe I'm already part of the collective. :0

Donald Fraser (arranger):

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Star Trek: Voyager was a challenge because it's a Jerry Goldsmith theme. The melody has a Straussian contour ... there's a futuristic feel about it, like 2001: A Space Odyssey. It's a French horn in the original, so my arrangement is as much an homage to that instrument as anything. I just thought, let's show the audience what the French horn can do with exactly the same tune. And then, of course it has a counterpoint in the second half when I give the tune to the cello and the violin.

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Grant Gershon (conductor):

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This theme, I would hazard a guess, might be one of the pieces that's a bit less familiar to some of the listeners. One of the orchestra members pointe out after we recorded it that what Donald seems to have written is the fifth Last Song of Richard Strauss. It really does recall the autumnal quality of Strauss' Four Last Songs. It features a beautiful lyric horn solo for Steve Becknell, and sumptuous harmonies for the string orchestra.

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but I jus got the Heigh-Ho! Mozart and Mozart TV albums yesterday - they're quite a hoot.....