Should we start reserving our copies now???

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Originally posted by Kevin:
Cooooool. Put me down for 1.

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Well, WE can't put you down for one - you have to ask Intrada, I guess.

But I'll make a personal note that you're getting it, if that helps.

This score isn't THAT much in demand.
don't get me wrong, I'd buy a copy.

and is it a promo? and only limited to 500 copies?

will it sell out as fast as all the new Varese Club titles?

1. It's a new Broughton disc. Most film music people are constantly craving a new release w/ his name on it.

2. It's limited. Doesn't matter if it's limited to 500 or 1000. They will go.

The Presidio, while not one of Bruce Broughton's hallmark achievements, is a good score and sports a great theme.

If you know anything about anything re: Broughton's music, that should be enough to be mindful and take care of your business early (before it's too late!).

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Originally posted by PeterK:
D'oh! Was that an offensive 80s joke? Goodness.

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lol - only offensive to the lion, i suppose! but they can't browse the internet, so i wouldn't worry.

Seriously, how much "promotion" is Broughton getting from these besides the chatter generated between fanboys? The music is over ten years old for crying out loud. I don't think any composer today (including Broughton) composes like he or she did ten years ago and I'm baffled by the idea that a composer could get a job using music from ten years ago.

If I was a composer, I would hope that my latest work was my best (since over the years I've fine-tuned my skills) and that's all I would ever want to demo for a future employer. Ten years ago is ancient history in almost anything besides geology.

Finally, if Broughton wants to press a thousand CDs of music from 1988 for his own "promotional purposes," he should do it from the money of his own pocket.

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Umm, my bleating is because we are being ripped off by the labels which release these things for $20!

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What? You aren't being ripped off. Do you have any idea what goes into producing promotional discs for composers? These discs are *not* for the fans. A limited number of copies are made available to the public to recoup production costs. When people produce these discs, they are going out on a financial limb -- why? Not because they secretly desire any kind of profit margin. They do it because they believe in the talents of composers like Bruce Broughton, and sincerely want to see them take home more high profile projects.

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Seriously, how much "promotion" is Broughton getting from these besides the chatter generated between fanboys? The music is over ten years old for crying out loud. I don't think any composer today (including Broughton) composes like he or she did ten years ago and I'm baffled by the idea that a composer could get a job using music from ten years ago.

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First off, yes, it IS completely possible for a composer to promote himself and procure jobs based on 10 year old works. Filmmakers are not film music geeks. They do not know the difference between what's 10 years old and what is a day old. Secondly, while Mr. Broughton might not write music *exactly* the way he did when he wrote The Presidio, it is still representative of his talent and what he is capable of doing. I have a feeling you haven't heard the majority of Broughton's work, Jonathan. If you had, you'd know that one of the greatest things about Bruce Broughton as a composer is that he nailed down a method by which to write music a long time ago. He's a very talented man, capable of writing in MANY styles, in MANY different ways. He's *already* fine-tuned, that is what is so special about him. His skills are above and beyond most of what is out there today. This is the reason promotional record producers do what they do. Not to pacify "fanboys" -- but to get the music out there and generate some noise, in hope of garnering some attention for these composers.

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If I was a composer, I would hope that my latest work was my best (since over the years I've fine-tuned my skills) and that's all I would ever want to demo for a future employer. Ten years ago is ancient history in almost anything besides geology.

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If you were a composer, huh? It's blatantly obvious why you aren't, bud. I'm sure fans of Silverado, Young Sherlock Holmes, The Boy Who Could Fly and Tombstone would disagree with your philosophies on this.

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Finally, if Broughton wants to press a thousand CDs of music from 1988 for his own "promotional purposes," he should do it from the money of his own pocket.

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So, what your saying is that Bruce Broughton should turn down free promotion? Bruce Broughton probably doesn't have the TIME nor the DESIRE to do all that himself. It's a lot of work, especially if you're going to do it right. And why would you even invest the time, if you've got people who want to do it for you?

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I sound like an ******* but at the same time I feel like we're being played big time with these things. Everybody seems to just sit back and accept it for no good reason. Does it fund future releases on the label? Ok, I admit that it might, but is it proper to steal these recordings to fund other releases?

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I guess I don't understand the point in complaining about all this. I mean, I'm a poor college student -- just like you! I can't afford all this. But I know there's a reason for the way things are priced. Just deal with it man. If you're frustrated, find other ways to obtain the things you want. Be resourceful. Be creative. Do something other than this. Insulting the business practices of decent individuals just doesn't seem necessary.

Cheers,
Jeron

Of course, this is my personal taste. Some would agree, others won't. Filmmakers, too.

Doug and Bruce are good friends. Or at least the last time I checked. Taylor has a passion for film music just like the rest of us. Why must they have to have an excuse to promote an artist's work if that's what they want to do? I have several friends who are composers... I promote their work, heck, I'd pour money into it if I had the money to do so. I think any of us would do that for artists we respect, enjoy, and want to support.

I think if the composer gives his okay on these promotional projects, and everything is legit, then what's the fuss? All I see right now is unnecessary banter by disgruntled fans who refuse to think before they speak. Do away with the tunnel-vision, guys.

Just be happy some of this stuff is finding its way into our hands. There's always the alternative... then again, I'm tired hearing people complain about Varese as well. For everyone, I prescribe chill pills. Come on Dr. Toons, you know that's what is best.

Oh, and Mike - thanks for chiming in.

Jeron

First of all, Jeron and Mike need to ignore Jonathan Little. It's imperative they do, because Jonathan Little is a collector, and....

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Originally posted by BMikeJ:
These sorts of projects are not intended for soundtrack collectors.

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Taking it up with a collector over something that's not for collectors is a bit bizarre. Mike, you don't like Little because he said some bad things about where you work. Jeron is upset because someone dissed a Broughton recording. You guys, yer jaded. Obvious.

He might just think we're all a bunch of maniacs and throw in the towel on the whole damn thing...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the YSH debacle. Ouch. That alone right there pissed of more than one person, whether or not we're including the composer in the tally. As it is, both Intrada and Percepto have mentioned they are more interested in getting out of the promo business all together, and for various reasons. Perhaps for financial reasons, perhaps for maniac fanboy reasons, perhaps for studio pressure reasons. Any way you look at it, it's not worth it to produce these under the current modus operandi anymore.

Which, in conclusion, is what Jonathan Little is/was getting at. The composers, should they wish to promote themselves with CDs in hand, will eventually have to pay to have these things made. Doug, Taylor et al, will be obliged to supervise the production if the composers come to them, but the project will be a job that's paid for by the composer. Very different from what's been happening lately.

The moment of truth: Shocking as it may seem, composers have CDR machines. They burn a CD of whatever studio sessions they've managed to log in their own libraries. Leaving out those composers with name recognition (duh, who needs a promo then?), there have been more jobs landed in the last 5 to 10 years as a result of CDRs composers (or their agents) have made for producers, directors, whatever. That's the truth, and no one should believe otherwise.

Taylor got it right when he said these promos are for families and friends (I refer to the recent Night Walker thread). That is an honest answer, because no one in heck, especially Jonathan Little, thinks Vic Mizzy is going to land a job in Hollywood today if he throws The Night Walker CD on a producer's bistro table. And it's not because of the digital pops, either.

No one's insulting anyone with their suggestions here. This can be a good discussion, and unfortunately, I've moved over to the side that will be uncool with collectors. But you know what? As "acceptable" as its been to stock promos in the MM store, I still find it unsettling that I am buying and selling CDs that are marked "not licensed for sale."

What I am doing is illegal, and I don't like it. But, this is what collectors expect. It's a terrible climate, and the weather coming doesn't look good unless this is changed. Changed how? Look at the weather patterns on the FSM planet. Me likes how those are done, even though I think they more expensive than they should be... but that's just me.

Over and out.

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Originally posted by PeterK:
You guys are not on the same wavelength. This discussion is MISS THE POINT.

Mike, you don't like Little because he said some bad things about where you work. Jeron is upset because someone dissed a Broughton recording. You guys, yer jaded. Obvious.

No one's insulting anyone with their suggestions here. This can be a good discussion, and unfortunately, I've moved over to the side that will be uncool with collectors. But you know what? As "acceptable" as its been to stock promos in the MM store, I still find it unsettling that I am buying and selling CDs that are marked "not licensed for sale."

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This is not the point, but how was Little's response over critical? It hits a bullseye by addressing the "problem" with promos being made available to collectors. Both you and Mike have said "these are not for collectors" and you both go hog wild on collectors once they get critical, overly or not. What's this really about?

Like I said, no one's launching a personal attack on an individual because a "promo" costs $20. People seem to like to be miss the point about this, and I am not sure if it's on purpose or not.

In the meantime, be looking for details on the latest official Percepto release, the double-dipped The Caper of the Golden Bulls and The Perils of Pauline.
http://www.moviemusic.com/title.asp?id=caperofthegoldenbulls

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Originally posted by PeterK:

This is not the point, but how was Little's response over critical? It hits a bullseye by addressing the "problem" with promos being made available to collectors. Both you and Mike have said "these are not for collectors" and you both go hog wild on collectors once they get critical, overly or not. What's this really about?

[Message edited by PeterK on 09-03-2002]

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Originally posted by TimT:
What is the Presido? I don't see anything about it on Intrada's website.

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Tim,

Check out the post by Brad Wills above. Then re-read the thread. And then go type in "The Presidio" at IMDB.com, and rent the flick.

I'm going to write a few words about it when it comes in at the Sabbey dudes site, just for the hell of it....

I'm not going to respond to anything said earlier, since I feel this thread is ugly enough.

Let me clarify a few things:

My intent of my earlier post was not to bash Bruce Broughton or specific record labels which produce promos and those employees/film music lovers affiliated with them. My post was to question the sale of these "not for sale" items. I used this album as an example, since it was the one creating the most chatter. People perhaps might not have been so infuriated if I had used a fake movie and composer's name instead.

My great appreciation to Peter for helping me fight the battle while I was away from the keyboard.

Finally, I agree Bruce Broughton is a fantastic composer and needs decent film score work.

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
Umm, my bleating is because we are being ripped off by the labels which release these things for $20!

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Are you serious?

Yesterday I had a brief wander around HMV's frankly inadequate soundtracks section. A moderately recent Varese soundtrack (FROM HELL) goes for £13.99 - or $21.68, using an exchange rate of 1.55. And Varese's are cheaper than other labels: things like MEN IN BLACK 2, LORD OF THE RINGS are £15.99 or £16.99. $24.78 or $26.34. Those are standard UK prices.

By comparison, the $27 I'll have to spend on getting THE PRESIDIO shipped to the UK works out as only slightly pricier than a high profile mainstream release from Sony Classical.

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Seriously, how much "promotion" is Broughton getting from these besides the chatter generated between fanboys? The music is over ten years old for crying out loud. I don't think any composer today (including Broughton) composes like he or she did ten years ago and I'm baffled by the idea that a composer could get a job using music from ten years ago.

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Well, whatever promotion Broughton's been gettng recently, it hasn't been working. The last big (as in mainstream blockbuster cinema) score he did was LOST IN SPACE; he's hardly got the career he deserves. Secondly, Bernard Herrmann was picked up by directors like Scorsese and DePalma on the basis of the scores he's written much more than ten years previously.

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I sound like an ******* but at the same time I feel like we're being played big time with these things. Everybody seems to just sit back and accept it for no good reason. Does it fund future releases on the label? Ok, I admit that it might, but is it proper to steal these recordings to fund other releases?

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If you really feel you're being played at $20, then don't be played. Don't buy THE PRESIDIO. Don't buy the Varese Club issues. Don't buy Intrada's Special Collection. Don't buy Prometheus' Club discs. Don't buy Oscar Promo discs when they show up on eBay. Don't buy the Limited Editions from Numenorean.

But you'll be missing out on some terrific music.

The choice here is between a $20 PRESIDIO and no PRESIDIO. If it was a choice between a $50 PRESIDIO and no PRESIDIO, I'd go with no PRESIDIO. But $20 isn't unreasonable.

And what do you mean by "stealing"?

NP: GLADIATOR (Hans Zimmer)

Coolness.

Kevin.