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Topic: ROTK Score CD - What goes where
Camillu
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>>> Mulitple Spoilers, of course <<<
Just like last year, here's my attempt to make some order of the many cues that make up the latest LOTR score CD. Return of the King, like TTT last year, is mostly suites of music skilfully edited from short cues, but this time they are usually continuous scenes in chronological order (which made my job much easier ). Needless to say, the end result is very satisfying, and a great listen. This list tries to link each cue with the scene it scores.Thanks to all the people who posted below to help update this list, and to those who can help fill in further gaps in the near future.
[For the Two Towers analysis, go to this page]
_______________________________________________________________________
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - Score CD cue-by-cue analysis.
_______________________________________________________________________
Track 1: A Storm is Coming
The first half of the first track is indeed the first music we hear in the film, but the 2nd half is from another scene, which apparently didn't make the final cut of the theatrical edition.0:00 - 0:31 Playful strings as we see the Newline logo and production credits.
0:31 - 0:48 The Ring theme as we see the Main Title on screen.
0:48 - 1:14 Flute passage as we cut to a close-up of Smeagol hooking his worm, and then to the two river hobbits in their boat.
1:14 - 1:37 Ascending strings as Deagol gets all excited about hooking a big one, and gets pulled in.
1:37 - 1:55 The track cuts to the ring theme as Deagol sees the ring on the river bed and picks it up in that well-known shot from the FOTR prologue.
1:55 - 2:52 Not in the Film (as far as i could hear) Action music from some Mordor scene, including a great rendition of the Mordor theme intertwined with the Seduction theme.N.B. The fight between Smeagol and Deagol is scored using sound effects (mostly the 'heartbeat' of the Ring).
___________________________________Track 2: Hope and Memory
Most of this track appears continuously in the film0:00 - 0:22 Hurried strings as Gandalf, Merry and Pippin walk down from the Great Hall to the stables in Edoras. (The scene where Merry explains to Pippin the gravity of what he has does is unscored)
0:22 - 0:51 Hints of the Shore and Fellowship theme as Merry hands some pipeweed to Pippin and says goodbye. Builds up to...
0:51 - 1:06 ...A great variation on the White Rider theme as Gandalf and Pippin ride out on Shadowfax.
1:06 - 1:25 Fellowship theme as Merry and Aragorn climb the watchtower to see them ride off, and we see them riding across a stream.
1:25 - 1:45 Beautiful string piece, not heard in the film.
_____________________________Track 3: Minas Tirith
More or less a suite of Minas Tirith-related pieces, from scenes early-on in the film0:00 - 0:28 Can't place this Ominous statement of the Gondor theme.
0:28 - 0:54 Eerie marching music as the orcs cross the river ala Saving Private Ryan.
0:54 - 1:15 Rousing action music with multiple statements of the Gondor theme as Faramir and Co. fight the orcs in Osgilliath.
1:15 - 1:37 Choir piece as a group of archers take out a group of orcs, and Faramir then orders his troops to break cover and ride to Minas Tirith. This cues ends just before the Nazgul arrive at Osgilliath.
1:37 - 2:02 Grand statement of the Gondor theme as Gandalf rides over the hill and we get a first glimpse of Minas Tirith.
2:02 - 2:35 Cuts to Ben Del Maestro's angelic voice as Gandalf wards off the Nazgul and leads the Gondor riders to Minas Tirith safely.
2:35 - 3:37 Amazing building of the Gondor theme as Peter Jackson gives us an aerial view of Gondor on Gandalf's arrival.
_______________________________Track 4: The White Tree
The track title refers to the first part, but the chunk of this track is the stunning 'beacon' music.0:00 - 0:32 Elegiac piece with choir as Gandalf and Pippin walk past the White Tree
0:32 - 1:08 The Boromir flashback, with a reprise of the cue from FOTR, as Denethor speaks to Gandalf and Pippin about his lost son.
1:08 - 1:33 Fast-paced string piece as Gandalf instructs Pippin, who then climbs up to the beacon tower. This piece is then repeated later as Pippin is lighting the beacon.
1:33 - 3:25 Amazing piece which starts as the first beacon is lit, and then escalates as further beacons follow suit. The track keeps rising and eventually explodes into the Gondor theme (2:37) with interweaving string playing as the beacons are lit. Superb piece of cinema. The track ends as Aragorn sees the last beacon from Edoras.
_____________________________________Track 5: The Steward of Gondor
More of less continuous track as scenes intercut between the main hall and the battlefield during the 'eating' scene.0:00 - 1:22 Choir and flute combine as the Gondor soldiers ride through the streets of Gondor and we see the faces of the saddened onlookers.
1:22 - 2:00 Military-sounding statement of the Gondor theme as they reach the city gate and ride out.
2:00 - 2:34 The drums continue accompanied by orchestra as the line of riders approaches Osgilliath. This piece is much longer in the film. This cue ends as we cut to a shot of Denethor eating, and about to ask Pippin whether he can sing.
2:34 - 3:37 Pippin sings while Denethor stuffs his face, intercut with scenes of the soldiers riding to Osgilliath and the Orcs taking aim on the ramparts.
3:37 - 3:53 Solemn ending to the track as Pippin holds back tears. We never get to see the arrows reach the soldiers. In the film the piece continues with a violin coda as we see Gandalf sitting alone somewhere in the city, and we hear church bells ringing.
________________________________Track 6: Minas Morgul
Another continuous track covering the scenes outside the titular tower0:00 - 0:35 The Mordor theme starts as we see a shot of one of the gargoyles outside Minas Morgul, just after the green spire of light has risen out of the tower. This piece plays as wee see various people in Minas Tirith seeing the green spiral.
0:35 - 0:44 Punctuated brass as Frodo and Sam cower behind a ledge.
0:44 - 0:57 The Witch King flies out on his fell-beast and perches atop the main gate.
0:57 - 1:28 The orcs march out of Minas Morgul, to the sound of a pounding motif similar to the Uruk-Hai motif from the previous 2 films.
1:28 - 1:58 Can't Place This String piece. I think this is from some Frodo/Sam/Gollum scene.
_________________________________Track 7: The Ride of the Rohirrim
Two sections of Rohan music from the scenes at Dunharrow, with a mid-section from Minas Tirith thrown in.0:00 - 0:44 Variations on the Rohan theme as Theoden rides through the encampment seeing which men have arrived.
0:44 - 0:52 Horn statement of the Rohan theme as Theoden and Aragorn looks down on the camp from the cliff. This cue is much longer in the film.
0:52 - 1:29 Cuts to a beautiful flute piece as Merry begs Theoden to allow him to ride into battle with the Rohirrim. The piece continues with orchestra as he sadly watches them ride off without him.
1:29 - 1:41 Rousing piece as Eowyn yanks Merry onto their horse and they join the departing army.
1:41 - 2:03 The piece continues with horn statements of the Rohan theme as the Rohirrim leave en masse for Gondor.
_________________________________Track 8: Twilight and Shadow
Continuous track covering the Arwen subplot.0:00 - 1:25 Choir piece as the elves ride through the woods and Arwen sees a vision of her future.
1:25 - 2:02 Great standalone string piece as Arwen does a u-turn and rides home to confront her father about the vision.
2:02 - 2:18 Quiet piece as they discuss her future.
2:18 - 2:36 The swirling strings of Rivendell, as Arwen walks up to the shards of Anduril.
2:36 - 3:30 The solo voice of Renee Fleming sings as Elrond realises Arwen is fading slowly.
__________________________________Track 9: Cirith Ungol (special thanks to franz-conrad)
Two short cues from the scenes on the stairway, and another missing cue to end it off.0:00 - 0:51 Variations on the Ring theme as Gollum whispers into Frodo's ear that Sam will soon ask for the Ring.
0:51 - 1:19 Variations on the Shire theme as Frodo tells Sam goodbye after the lembas incident, and continues to climb the stairs.
1:19 - 1:40 Ascending piece featuring the Caradhras theme from FOTR. Don't think this is in the final cut of the film.
_________________________________Track 10: Anduril
True to the title, this track is made of two cues relating to the sword in question.0:00 - 1:15 The swirling strings of Rivendell as the sword is re-cast in Rivendell. (A short segment of the burst at 0:37 is repeated later when Elrond pulls Anduril out from under his cloak, immediately before this next cue)
1:15 - 1:42 Noble horn piece as Elrond hands Anduril over to Aragorn.
1:42 - 1:56 Aragorn pulls the sowrd from the scabbard and holds it aloft, stating that "The blade that was broken, shall return to Minas Tirith".
1:56 - 2:17 Elrond emphatically urges Aragorn to use the sword to summon to him a greater army, and "become who you were born to be". He then instructs him to enter the paths of the dead.
2:17 - 2:35 Exchange in Elvish: "I give hope to men". "I keep none for myself."__________________________________
Track 11: Shelob's Lair
Dark and frenetic cues, unlike anything else on the 3 LOTR CDs, from the scenes we were all waiting for.0:00 - 0:49 Ominous piece as Gollum shows Frodo the entrance to the tunnel and eventually convinces him to go in. The mini-climax is when Frodo touches the 'sticky' wall.
0:49 - 1:13 Back to the ominous piece, which then escalates into frantic strings as Frodo sees Shelob's other victims.
1:13 - 1:19 Cut to Sam climbing down the stairs outside. This piece is longer in the film.
1:19 - 1:44 After Sam falls and finds the lembas he looks up at the stairs and the strings start again, and we cut back to Frodo trying to run away from Shelob, as the Herrmann-esque piece gets faster.
1:44 - 2:34 Disjointed action piece as Frodo escapes from Shelob.
2:34 - 3:01 Cut to Sam's fight with Shelob (which I think also contains a repeat of a previous piece from this track).
3:01 - 3:29 The action music gets more melodic but also more pounding as Sam grapples with Shelob.
3:29 - 4:07 The track reaches epic proportions as Sam stabs Shelob and she staggers around before cowering back into her tunnel.
__________________________________Track 12: Ash and Smoke
Disjointed as this cue may sound, it plays more or less as-is in the film, during the beginning of the assault on Minas Tirith.0:00 - 0:22 Horns sound as a wounded Faramir is dragged in through the gates. We then see the orcs loading their catapults, and the chief orc patrolling the ranks on his warg.
0:22 - 0:30 String section as his stretcher is carried up to the courtyard.
0:30 - 0:54 Denethor runs out in dismay to see his wounded son, and a soldier explains how they were out numbered. We then cut to the chief orc stating how the city is rank with fear.
0:54 - 1:10 Punctuated brass as he he orders to 'release the prisoners', and the orcs catapult severed heads into the city.
1:10 - 1:55 This cue is from a scene later on in the seige of Minas Tirith, once the orcs have breached the walls. Angelic choir with a pounding bassline is heard as the orcs run amok through the lower circles of Minas Tirith.
1:55 - 2:27 This cue follows from 1:10 (of this track) in the film. Denethor despairs, and walks to the edge of the courtyard, where at 2:20 he sees the massive orc army on the fields below. Meanwhile, Pippin realises that Faramir is still alive, and the trolls start loading boulders onto the catapults.
2:27 - 2:56 Denethor is seen close-up, as he despairs that Rohan have abandoned him. The orcs start to fire boulders onto the city, and Denethor starts ordering everyone to abandon their posts, until Gandalf knocks some sense into him. This cue is much longer in the film.
2:56 - 3:25 The White Rider theme is heard just after Gandalf yells "Prepare for battle" and then rides through the lower circles of the city. This cue ends with the great shot (also in the trailer) of Gandalf riding up onto the ramparts, with Sauron's army and Mordor visible beyond the city walls.
_________________________________Track 13: The Fields of the Pelennor
More cues from the battle, edited together from various points in the film.0:00 - 1:20 Drums accompany the Rohan theme and the Nature theme as the Rohirrim leave Edoras. (?)
1:20 - 1:47 More pounding music, reminiscent of Helm's Deep, as the orc towers inch closer to the walls.
1:47 - 2:52 Impressive action piece with full-blown choir as the Nazgul descend on Minas Tirith.
2:52 - 3:22 Triumphant piece echoing the charge out of Helm's Deep, the Rohirrim army hits the Orc ranks.
____________________________________Track 14: Hope Fails (thanks to franz_conrad)
Apart from the missing section, this is mostly music from paths of the dead plotline0:00 - 0:41 Ominous piece as Aragorn looks around the inside of the Halls of the Dead.
0:41 - 1:13 As franz_conrad so elegantly put it - 'a plaintive statement of Faramir's theme for strings and muted brass'. Can't recall this in the film.
1:13 - 1:43 Sublime string variation on the seduction theme, which ends up sounding very desolate. Could be during the exchange of the ring between Sam and Frodo.
1:43 - 2:21 A loud statement of brass followed by an atonal piece, as Aragorn deflects the sword of the King of the Dead and challenges the Army of the Dead to fulfil their oaths to Isilduir. We cut out of the scene when the music reaches its most ominous point - when Aragorn shouts "What say you?".
___________________________________Track 15: The Black Gate Opens
One of my favourite tracks from the whole trilogy. These cues from the climax worked brilliantly on screen0:00 - 0:51 Not sure about when this starts, but I think it's as the black gate starts to open (hence the track title ), and Aragorn etc. hurry back to join the rest of the Westerners and prepare for the onslaught. The Fellowship theme is heard as we see Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas and Gimli leading the pack.
0:51 - 1:01 The music quietens as we cut to Frodo lying in Sam's arms, on the sides of Mount Doom.
1:01 - 1:40 Beautiful flute piece starts, as Sam tries to raise Frodo's spirits by speaking of the Shire. I think this flute piece is a stroke of genius from Shore, because when you hear it on screen, you immediately realise that it signifies how small, hopeless and lonely the two hobbits are, faced with this huge, daunting task.
1:40 - 2:28 Cut back to the Black Gate, as the orcs come pouring out and surround the circle of attackers. I believe the lovely piece with choir starts as Legolas and Gimli express their honour are dying side by side.
2:28 - 3:31 Back to the slopes, as a parched Frodo tells Sam he has lost all sense of reality, and is near the end. This fastens Sam's resolve, and he tells Frodo they must end it all now.
3:31 - 4:01 The first full on-screen statement of the 'Into the West' theme (it was heard softly as Gandalf spoke of the afterlife), as Sam picks Frodo up and, after steadying his legs, continues up the slopes with him on his shoulders. The effect of hearing this piece on-screen is amazing in my opinion, and I consider this the emotional highpoint of the film.
___________________________________Track 16: The End of All Things
The 2nd show-stopping choral track from a score this year (after Neodammerung), this track lives up to its title.0:00 - 1:08 Powerful, apocalyptic choir piece which starts just after Frodo says (with an evil twinkle in his eye) "The Ring is mine." It continues as he puts the ring on, Gollum creeps up and knocks out Sam, and Gollum then proceeds to wrestle with an invisible Frodo. In the film the piece is intercut with scenes of the battle at the black gate, and I believe is longer than what we have on CD.
1:08 - 1:50 The choral storms calms down to a solo voice as we see a great shot of Gollum holding up the ring (seen through the ring), with a (justified) blissful expression on his face. The piece works really well because all the chaos stands still for a bit as we appreciate Gollum's only truly happy moment in the trilogy. The piece ends with the Ring theme as Frodo starts to miss it, and decides to try and get it back.
1:50 - 2:13 Back to all-out choir + beating drums as Frodo puts aside the pain in his finger-stump and takes on Gollum. The whole falling sequence is scored using sound effects.
2:13 - 3:52 Another highlight of the CD. Great choir piece with minimal orchestra arrangement. Originally thought this was the piece which starts just as the Ring (finally!) sinks into the lava, and all hell breaks loose. However it is missing from the final cut of the film. The piece ends with a variation of the Fellowship theme, possibly as we see the members of the fellowship at the Black Gate cheering Frodo on.
3:52 - 4:09 Jaw-dropping climax as Barad-Dur crumbles to the grounds, and eventually let's rip, flattening Sauron's army.
4:09 - 5:12 Cut to the lovely piece with solo voice as the Eagles come to rescue Frodo and Sam and carry them to safety.___________________________________
Track 17: The Return of the King
Beautiful track, made up of many different cues but which all follow seamlessly in the film, and the tale draws to a close0:00 - 1:12 Beautiful flute and string passage as Frodo awakens and meets Pippin, Merry and a very amused Gandalf.
1:12 - 1:47 The fellowship theme plays as Gimli, Legolas and Aragorn join the party.
1:47 - 2:15 The shire theme plays as Frodo shares a knowing smile with Sam. The track then build to...
2:15 - 2:44 A grand climax as we see an aerial shot of the packed courtyard, and then zoom down to Gandalf about to crown Aragorn.
2:44 - 3:13 Gondor's/Aragorn's theme as he is crowned.
3:13 - 3:43 He gives a short speech and is applauded by all those present.
3:43 - 4:19 Aragorn sings, and then walks down the stairs with a shower of petals (with singing still playing in the background).
4:19 - 4:40 The Fellowship theme as he meets Legolas, and the track then builds to...
4:40 - 5:25 Arwen's theme as she comes out from behind a banner, and meets Aragorn.
5:25 - 5:52 Aragorn ends all the daydreaming and gets physical.
5:52 - 6:14 They walk down the courtyard, and come across the hobbits, whom Aragorn bows before.
6:14 - 6:43 Superb statement of the Shire theme as all bow to the hobbits.
6:43 - 7:21 Zoom out on Minas Tirith, which blends into the map of middle earth, voiced over by Frodo.
7:21 - 8:12 The shire theme plays as we zoom into the Shire and see the hobbits' return.
8:12 - 8:23 Not in the film.
8:23 - 9:04 The fiddle joins as the hobbits sit in the Green Dragon and soak it all back in.
9:04 - 9:18 The hobbits raise their pints for a toast.
9:18 - 9:40 Sam plucks up some courage and goes over to Rosie.
9:40 - 10:14 The music swells as we cut to Sam and Rosie's wedding. The track ends as we cut to Frodo in Bag End.
_____________________________________Track 18: The Grey Havens
As the track title suggests, this track covers most of the ending0:00 - 0:51 Beautiful flute piece which starts when we see the lake in Hobbiton, and Gandalf passing through on a wagon. We then cut to Frodo and Bilbo inside the wagon.
0:51 - 1:11The Fellowship theme plays as the four young hobbits help Bilbo down the stairs.
1:11 - 2:19A new motif which features heavily in this track, as we see Bilbo's point of view - Elrond, Celeborn and Galadriel standing on the pier next to the ship. The piece continues as they escort him aboard.
2:19 - 3:23A very nice touch from Howard Shore - as Gandalf says goodbye, we hear the same piece we heard just outside Moria after Gandalf fell. Frodo then hugs Merry and Pippin.
3:23 - 4:40A heart-wrenching statement of the Shire theme, with humming choir and flute, as Frodo says goodbye to Sam. At 4:07 we hear the piece usually associated with Sam, as him and Frodo share a long and heartfelt hug.
4:40 - 5:17The new motif mentioned above returns, as Frodo climbs aboard and the ship moves out to sea.
5:17 - 5:59The 'Into the West' theme finishes off the scene beautifully as we are treated to a superb shot of the ship sailing out into the sunset.______________________________________
Main Missing Pieces I NoticedFor more detailed notes on missing music, see Franz_conrad's assessment here.
1. 'For Frodo'
The biggest omission in my opinion. Just after Aragorn says the above line and charges, closely followed by Merry and Pippin, an epic, choral version of the Fellowship theme lets rip, as wechange between scenes of the battle at the Black Gate, and Gollum fighting with Sam and Frodo near the entrance to Mount Doom. This cue is reason enough for an expanded release.
2. Legolas vs. Mumankil
A great action piece as Legolas single-handedly takes on an Oliphant + crew.3. The Charge of the Rohirrim
A great statement of the Nature Theme (not sure why, but anyway) as the Rohirrim charge onto the Orc army on the fields of Pelennor.4. The Eagles
A short piece with choir and solo voice as the eagles carry Frodo and Sam to safety in slow motion.5. Eowyn
There are various variations of Eowyn's theme during her key scenes.6. End Credits
The first part of the End Credits feature an orchestral piece, before the Annie Lennox songs kicks in.
____________________________________[Message edited by Camillu on 01-07-2004]
posted 12-18-2003 09:43 AM PT (US) ridan
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Camillu:
Track 3: Minas Tirith2:35 - 3:37 Amazing building of the Gondor theme as Peter Jackson gives us an aerial view of Gondor on Gandalf's arrival.
_____________________________________[Message edited by Camillu on 12-18-2003][/B]
Yeah, but why is Aragorn's theme used in the Gondor theme? Because it is, at 3:01-3:05, and 3:14-3:20
posted 12-18-2003 10:19 AM PT (US) JJH
Standard Userer
could it be because Aragorn is the king of Gondor, and thus Shore thought the music was interchangeable?
or have I misunderstood your question?posted 12-18-2003 10:23 AM PT (US) ridan
Standard Userer
Just at the section right there, why is Aragorn's theme used before he is king of Gondor?
posted 12-18-2003 11:43 AM PT (US) TV's Frank
Standard Userer
You know, I have yet to pick out Aragorn's theme, even after all these listens. I will not those track times and listen more closely, but it must be really similar to the Gondor theme, right?
posted 12-18-2003 12:31 PM PT (US) Poke Alex
Non-Standard Userer
> 1:55 - 2:52 Can't place this Action music from some Mordor scene, including a great rendition of the Mordor theme intertwined with a new theme. <I believe the "new theme" is the seduction theme.
posted 12-18-2003 01:02 PM PT (US) ridan
Standard Userer
Aragorn's theme:Not really. it just has similar instrumentation.
here are all of the track times i can think of:
at the sign of the prancing pony: 1:07
The bridge of khazad-dum: 0:34
Isengard Unleashed: 1:55
The black gate opens: 0:18
Return of the king: 2:52, 3:06
'Amon Hen' - 0:48-1:05.
'Evenstar' - 0:33-1:01.
'Breath of Life' - 4:21-4:49.[Message edited by ridan on 12-18-2003]
posted 12-18-2003 01:03 PM PT (US) Poke Alex
Non-Standard Userer
> 1:55 - 2:52 Can't place this Action music from some Mordor scene, including a great rendition of the Mordor theme intertwined with a new theme. <I believe the "new theme" is the seduction theme.
posted 12-18-2003 01:15 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
Ai me! I guess I wasn't too wrong after all. Maybe I should start playing lottery hunches!Oh, and don't worry about my thunder - keep stealing it Camillu!
[Message edited by franz_conrad on 12-18-2003]
posted 12-18-2003 01:33 PM PT (US) Southall
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by ridan:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Camillu:
[b]Track 3: Minas Tirith2:35 - 3:37 Amazing building of the Gondor theme as Peter Jackson gives us an aerial view of Gondor on Gandalf's arrival.
_____________________________________[Message edited by Camillu on 12-18-2003][/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but why is Aragorn's theme used in the Gondor theme? Because it is, at 3:01-3:05, and 3:14-3:20[/B]
Damn that Howard Shore!
posted 12-18-2003 02:13 PM PT (US) Camillu
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Poke Alex:
I believe the "new theme" is the seduction theme.Yup. That's it. It's the seduction theme sped up. Funny how themes just aren't recognizeable till you really actively listen.
I'll try to add more tracks to the above as I hear the CD more and get some more viewings of the film...
posted 12-18-2003 03:38 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Camillu:
[b] Track 1: A Storm is Coming
1:55 - 2:52 Can't place this Action music from some Mordor scene, including a great rendition of the Mordor theme intertwined with a new theme.
[/B]The scene involved here, mind you I haven't seen the film, might be the one where Frodo is caught by the gaze of Sauron on the plains of Mordor.
posted 12-18-2003 10:40 PM PT (US) Jaav
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally Posted By Ridan:Aragorn's theme:
Not really. it just has similar instrumentation.here are all of the track times i can think of:
at the sign of the prancing pony: 1:07Hmmmm... I don't agree it's only the instrumentation really... When you listen closely you'll hear two motifs relating to Aragorn, one is my V-motif (descending, ascending, or see my FotR analysis I might post here later), the other one is a spaced ascending motif...
And the motif you hear at the Sign of the Prancing Pony... That's, to me at least, definately nothing like that... which only makes me think that particular motif is a one time thing for Aragorn as 'Strider'.
~Jelle
posted 12-19-2003 01:09 AM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by ridan:
Just at the section right there, why is Aragorn's theme used before he is king of Gondor?Foreshadowing? The combination of Gondor's and Aragorn's themes was already used in the trailer, so...
NP: ROTK
posted 12-19-2003 06:55 AM PT (US) Camillu
Standard Userer
I updated the analysis quite a bit. Just three tracks left to type out (hey, it's late ).If anyone could help filling the gaps it would be greatly appreciated.
Merry Christmas to all of you btw.
posted 12-25-2003 02:13 PM PT (US) Magpie
Standard Userer
I saw ROTK again today and took paper and pen. I'll look over my notes when I can and see if I can fill in gaps.RE: Track 6: Minas Morgul
1:28 - 1:58 Can't Place This String piece. I think this is from some Frodo/Sam/Gollum scene.This is the music played on Caradhras in the FOTR and we were excited to hear it on the soundtrack CD. But, even though I listened pretty carefull, I couldn't find it in the movie.
posted 12-25-2003 09:34 PM PT (US) Camillu
Standard Userer
I'm not sure, but during my last viewing I thought I heard the Caradhras piece though. I think it's round about when Frodo sends Sam home. It sirt of plays over the ending of a scene, as we see Frodo and Gollum resume the climb.But I'll have to check that on my next viewing.
posted 12-25-2003 10:51 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
Saw the film twice today.Notes:
* Caradhras theme doesn't appear in the film.
* The second half of 'A Storm is Coming' doesn't appear in the film.
* The last 15 seconds of 'Hope and Memory' don't appear in the film.
* The statement of the Faramir/Denethor theme in 'Hope Fails' doesn't appear in the film.
* The first minute of 'The White Tree' covers both Pippin seeing the said tree for the first time and his remembering Boromir's sacrifice as you suspect.posted 12-26-2003 06:16 AM PT (US) Camillu
Standard Userer
Thanks Franz. Glad you could confirm about the end bit of Hope and Memory...
posted 12-27-2003 04:14 AM PT (US) ridan
Standard Userer
That first part of the white tree occurs:That
"0:00 - 1:08 Can't place this. Elegiac piece with choir. At 0:32 there probably is the Boromir flashblack thrown in."
bit, begins with the "History of Gondor" theme, when G+P stop in the courtyard of the tree. the second part with boromir starts around the time denethor holds up the Horn, and Pip has the Flashback.
posted 12-29-2003 01:24 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Camillu:
[b]Track 2: Hope and Memory
1:25 - 1:45 Can't place this Beautiful string piece.As I mentioned, this doesn't appear in the film. I suspect the scene originally ran a little bit longer. The extra little bit of music is Fellowship-theme related - see particularly the departure from Rivendell music from FOTR:EE. Here's a link to a page with a soundclip of it: http://www.sa-matra.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/lotr/
See also the TTT album track 'The Uruk-Hai' when Aragorn picks up Pippin/Merry's Lorian clasp.
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Track 3: Minas Tirith
0:00 - 0:28 Can't place this Ominous statement of the Gondor theme.Not sure either. I don't think it appears in the film, and was intended for the scene where we see Osgiliath at night before Gothmog's orcs cross the river. So it would have come immediately before the ominous music for the crossing at 0:29.
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Track 4: The White Tree0:00 - 1:08 Can't place this. Elegiac piece with choir. At 0:32 there probably is the Boromir flashblack thrown in.
Kurt's already cleared up the two scene that this comes from. It's important to emphasize that 0:32 on is a reprise of the music for Boromir's mortal wounding at the hand of Lurtz.
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Track 6: Minas Morgul1:28 - 1:58 Can't Place This String piece. I think this is from some Frodo/Sam/Gollum scene.
This music, the so-called Caradhras theme, doesn't appear in the film.
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Track 8: Twilight and Shadow
2:36 - 3:30 The solo voice of Renee Fleming sings as Elrond realises Arwen is fading slowly.This is the Evenstar theme composed for the second film to depict Aragorn and Arwen's relationship over space and time.
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Track 9: Cirith Ungol
0:00 - 0:51 > Not sure about this Variations on the Ring theme.Smeagol whispers into Frodo's ear on the Winding Stair that Sam will soon ask for the Ring.
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0:51 - 1:19 > Not sure about this Variations on the Shire theme.From Sam and Frodo's parting on the ledge after the lembas incident.
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1:19 - 1:40 Ascending piece as the two armour-clad hobbits cross the bridge and get a grand view of the plains of Mordor.Didn't hear this in the film. This features a reprise of the Caradhras theme.
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Track 12: Ash and Smoke
0:00 - 0:22 Horns sound as the gates are opened for a wounded Faramir to be brought in.I think there is a reprise of Faramir's theme, heard in the opening minute of 'The Steward of Gondor' and also briefly in 'Hope Fails' somewhere in this passage.
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1:55 - 2:27 Can't remember what's happening here.I think this is Denethor's despair. He calls me to abandon their posts as he sees the immensity of the forces against them before being knocked out by Gandalf.
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2:56 - 3:25 (not sure about this) The White Rider theme as Gandalf takes charge of the defences.Specifically we see Gandalf riding through the streets toward the lower levels.
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Track 13: The Fields of the Pelennor
0:00 - 1:20 Drums accompany the Rohan theme and the Nature theme as the Rohirrim leave Edoras. (?)I think this is as the Rohirrim come over the Rammas Echor into the Pelennor Fields. Theoden starts his speech and we pan up to reveal the immensity of the Rohan forces.
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1:47 - 2:52 Impressive action piece with full-blown choir as the Nazgul descend on Minas Tirith.A variation on the Ringwraith Revelation theme.
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2:52 - 3:22 Can't place this Triumphant piece echoing the charge out of Helm's Deep.After hearing the Nature and Rohan themes as the Rohirrim build up to their charge, this piece of music is heard just as they are about to hit the Morgul ranks, and I think concludes shortly after they do.
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Track 17: The Return of the King
2:15 - 2:44 A grand climax as we see an aerial shot of the packed courtyard, and then zoom down to Gandalf about to crown Aragorn.The Fourth Age theme. It also appears at the Black Gate as the Armies of the West cheer, and also appears at the beginning of the end credits, before 'Into the West'.
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8:12 - 8:23 Not in the film.I didn't notice that. That's a shame - its a lovely linking piece.
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Track 18: The Grey Havens
3:23 - 4:40 A heart-wrenching statement of the Shire theme, with humming choir and flute, as Frodo says goodbye to the other hobbits. At 4:07 we hear the piece usually associated with Sam, as him and Frodo share a long and heartfelt hug.This is just Frodo's farewell to Sam. We hear a variation on the music for Gandalf's departure as Frodo hands Sam the book, and hugs Merry and then Pippin.
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5:17 - 5:59 The 'Into the West' theme finishes off the scene beautifully as we are treated to a superb shot of the ship sailing out into the sunset.The film statement of the Theme of the West is longer, and the deep strings can be heard more clearly in the missing section.
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I'll add the three remaining tracks within the next few days, and hopefully fill in some of the gaps after my next viewing. If anyone has any suggestions or spots any mistakes, please let me know.I'd be interested particularly in your take on tracks 14 and 16. I think there may be a missing section in track 16 that doesn't appear in the film. In track 14, there is a section 0:41-1:42 where we hear a plaintive statement of Faramir's theme for strings and muted brass. I don't remember this appearing in the film, and I think Denethor's pyre was scored with more action-oriented material. The rest of the track comes from the Dead Marshes.
NP Well, take a guess...
posted 12-29-2003 01:58 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
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quote:
Originally posted by franz_conrad:
[B] I don't remember this appearing in the film, and I think Denethor's pyre was scored with more action-oriented material. The rest of the track comes from the Dead Marshes.I'm guessing I meant the Paths of the Dead rather than the Dead Marshes.
posted 12-29-2003 04:22 PM PT (US) Marian Schedenig
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quote:
Originally posted by franz_conrad:
I think this is Denethor's despair. He calls me to abandon their posts as he sees the immensity of the forces against them before being knocked out by Gandalf.I can confirm this. Also, it sounds like a distant variation of the Gondor theme to me.
posted 12-30-2003 04:42 AM PT (US) Alwin
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Everyone must be congratulated (crazy) to go through such a detailed analysis.Thanks for filling in all the corresponding sequences that match the CD and ones that were left out.
posted 12-30-2003 01:36 PM PT (US) Camillu
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Updated the list, and generally spruced up the original post. Thanks everyone for the help.
posted 12-30-2003 02:20 PM PT (US) jb1234
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2:13 - 3:52 Another highlight of the CD. Great choir piece with minimal orchestra arrangement, which starts just as the Ring (finally!) sinks into the lava, and all hell breaks loose. We see all the major characters at the Black Gate taking notice, and the Eye going berserk. The piece ends with a variation of the Fellowship theme as Frodo's companions cheer him.- This isn't in the movie, actually. It was replaced by some other choral stuff.
posted 12-30-2003 07:00 PM PT (US) jb1234
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0:52 - 1:29 Cuts to a beautiful flute piece as Faramir asks his father whether he would rather Boromir was still alive and he was dead. The piece continues with orchestra as he leaves and asks for respect on his return.- I'm not sure where this piece goes to, but it's not the one you're describing. That scene is scored for flute, strings and what sounds like a glockenspiel (or related instrument like a celesta).
posted 12-30-2003 08:16 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
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quote:
Originally posted by jb1234:
2:13 - 3:52 Another highlight of the CD. Great choir piece with minimal orchestra arrangement, which starts just as the Ring (finally!) sinks into the lava, and all hell breaks loose. We see all the major characters at the Black Gate taking notice, and the Eye going berserk. The piece ends with a variation of the Fellowship theme as Frodo's companions cheer him.- This isn't in the movie, actually. It was replaced by some other choral stuff.
I agree. Part of that second section of 'The End of All Things' doesn't appear in the film.
posted 12-30-2003 11:18 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
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quote:
Originally posted by Camillu:
Track 13: The Fields of the Pelennor0:00 - 1:20 Drums accompany the Rohan theme and the Nature theme as the Rohirrim leave Edoras. (?)
Still fairly sure that comes from the moments leading up to the Rohirrim charge. The swell of the orchestra at around 1:10-1:20 accompanies a wide view of the armies of Rohan stretched across the Pelennor. The cue for the departure from Edoras is a lot more strident.
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Track 14: Hope Fails
I'm quite shaky on this one. Apart from the missing section, this is mostly music from the Frodo/Sam plotline0:00 - 0:41 Ominous piece as we zoom into Cirith Ungol and in a single shot go through the window and in next to Frodo. A variation of the ring theme ends this, possibly from when Frodo hears the orcs talking and realises he doesn't have the Ring around his neck.
I seem to remember this appearing as Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli enter the Halls of the Dead. Specifically it may that moment when the camera pans to reveal that the Halls are filled with soldiers.
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1:13 - 1:43 Sublime string variation on the seduction theme, which ends up sounding very desolate. Probably during the exchange of the ring between Sam and Frodo.Actually, thematically this is related to the Faramir material you hear in the first minute of 'The Steward of Gondor'. It doesn't appear in the film. The return of the Ring from Sam to Frodo is (I recall) accompanied by that familiar female vocal sound effect and no music.
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1:43 - 2:21 A loud statement of brass followed by an atonal piece which I can't place (probably from scenes within Cirith Ungol).This is Aragorn deflecting the sword of the King of the Dead and challenging the Army of the Dead to fulfil their oaths to Isilduir. We cut out of the scene when the music reaches its most ominous point.
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Track 16: The End of All Things
2:13 - 3:52 Another highlight of the CD. Great choir piece with minimal orchestra arrangement, which starts just as the Ring (finally!) sinks into the lava, and all hell breaks loose. We see all the major characters at the Black Gate taking notice, and the Eye going berserk. The piece ends with a variation of the Fellowship theme as Frodo's companions cheer him.
3:52 - 4:09 Jaw-dropping climax as Barad-Dur crumbles to the grounds, and eventually let's rip, flattening Sauron's army.On the 2:13-2:52 piece, I don't think all of that appears in the final film. The first section particularly may have been replaced.
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4:09 - 5:12 Cut to the lovely piece with solo voice as the Eagles come to rescue Frodo and Sam and carry them to safety. Alternatively, this could also be the piece after Barad-Dur falls, as the Fellowship realise Mount Doom is falling apart, and Frodo and Sam are not going to make it. I'll try and sort this out on next viewing.I can confirm that this is the cue for the Eagle rescue of Frodo and Sam. An unreleased instrumental variation of the vocal part is also heard when Frodo and Sam lie on the rocks of Mount Doom and talk about Rosie, etc.
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Track 18: The Grey Havens
2:19 - 3:23A very nice touch from Howard Shore - as Gandalf says goodbye, we hear the same piece we heard just outside Moria after Gandalf fell. Frodo then hugs Merry and Pippin.Overall, well done Camillu. A great sequel to last year's piece!
posted 12-30-2003 11:33 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
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Track 18: The Grey Havens
2:19 - 3:23A very nice touch from Howard Shore - as Gandalf says goodbye, we hear the same piece we heard just outside Moria after Gandalf fell. Frodo then hugs Merry and Pippin.I meant to add on this piece. It is followed in the film by an even more emotional reprise of the same theme as Frodo hugs Merry and Pippin. This is an unreleased tearjerking highlight.
posted 12-30-2003 11:35 PM PT (US) Panthael
Non-Standard Userer
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Track 7: The Ride of the Rohirrim
Two sections of Rohan music from the scenes at Dunharrow, with a mid-section from Minas Tirith thrown in.0:00 - 0:44 Variations on the Rohan theme as Theoden rides through the encampment seeing which men have arrived.
0:44 - 0:52 Horn statement of the Rohan theme as Theoden and Aragorn looks down on the camp from the cliff.
0:52 - 1:29 Cuts to a beautiful flute piece as Faramir asks his father whether he would rather Boromir was still alive and he was dead. The piece continues with orchestra as he leaves and asks for respect on his return.
1:29 - 1:41 Rousing piece as Eowyn yanks Merry onto their horse and they join the departing army.
1:41 - 2:03 The piece continues with horn statements of the Rohan theme as the Rohirrim leave en masse for Gondor.I dont think you are correct about this segment:
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0:52 - 1:29 Cuts to a beautiful flute piece as Faramir asks his father whether he would rather Boromir was still alive and he was dead. The piece continues with orchestra as he leaves and asks for respect on his return.This music accompanies the scene where Merry asks Theoden to ride with them and then is subsequently turned down.
I think the scene you are talking about w/ Faramir and Denethor features the same type of flute as the one that occurs in Track 5...this is a more 'hobbitish' sounding flute. (It would also make more sense for this scene to be featured in "The Ride of the Rohirrim" then a scene with Faramir would).
posted 12-31-2003 08:38 AM PT (US) derwen
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Somebody already mentioned it above, but on "Ride of the Rohirrim," (0:52 - 1:29) yes, the low whistle theme is played when Theoden tells Merry that he must stay behind.The theme with Faramir and Denethor is played on panpipes, and is a variation of the panpipe theme at the beginning of track 5, but the theme with Faramir and Denethor does not appear on the soundtrack.
I love the Shire theme (I'm a big fan of the tin whistle) and anywhere Howard Shore uses the tin whistle (always in connection with Hobbits), is a great section. I'm glad he brought the tin whistle back after not using it in the Two Towers.I also think that Howard Shore did an incredible job weaving themes throughout the three movies. When I listen to the RotK soundtrack, I find the themes of Gondor, Rohan, the Shire and the Fellowship weaving together so easily, sometimes it takes me a second to figure out which theme is playing. That makes it really great, in my opinion...
[Message edited by derwen on 12-31-2003]
posted 12-31-2003 10:16 AM PT (US) franz_conrad
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quote:
Originally posted by Panthael:
0:52 - 1:29 Cuts to a beautiful flute piece as Faramir asks his father whether he would rather Boromir was still alive and he was dead. The piece continues with orchestra as he leaves and asks for respect on his return.This music accompanies the scene where Merry asks Theoden to ride with them and then is subsequently turned down.
I think the scene you are talking about w/ Faramir and Denethor features the same type of flute as the one that occurs in Track 5...this is a more 'hobbitish' sounding flute. (It would also make more sense for this scene to be featured in "The Ride of the Rohirrim" then a scene with Faramir would).
While Shore's track titles are no giveaway as to what the track contains, that portion from 0:50-1:29 is from the scene where Merry wants to go with the Rohirrim. It isn't the thematic material associated with Faramir/Denethor. That specific scene - where Denethor reveals he would rather have had Boromir live - is not featured on the CD, though some similar music can be heard in track 14, which I've commented on above.
posted 12-31-2003 04:35 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
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******* NOTE TO VISITORS FROM THEONERING.NET ***************You may find the following msn discussion board of interest:
http://groups.msn.com/SMME/_whatsnew.msnwThe topic is, of course, Shore's music for Middle Earth.
******************************************************
posted 12-31-2003 04:44 PM PT (US) Hornerfan
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Franz said: "Caradhras theme doesn't appear in the film."Of course it doesn't. This is the name of the mountain where the Fellowship got trapped in Fellowship of the Ring before going into the mines. It would have no business being in The Return of the King. And why would a mountain have a theme, anyway?
Mike
posted 01-01-2004 12:08 AM PT (US) Elf_Maven
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Mike, Shore often reprises his themes, with variations appropriate to the new setting. The "Caradhras theme" is heard again in Fellowship after the avalanche and the Fellowship is standing below the remains of the Stair Falls, looking up towards what looks like a broken aquaduct. Obviously, Shore has associated it with heights, so it could carry over into ROTK. The question is, where?I'm relieved but somewhat disappointed to find that others have come to the same conclusion I have---that it doesn't appear in the TE. Perhaps many of these cues that are missing will show up on the EE?
posted 01-01-2004 09:06 AM PT (US) Doug Adams
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If I remember correctly, one of its ROTK iterations was originally used when Frodo, Sam and Gollum were climbing the hidden staircase to Shelob's Lair. In the film as we see it now, this section has been rescored.-Doug
posted 01-01-2004 10:10 AM PT (US) galacticb
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Hi, I'm new to this message board; however, I wanted to complement you on a great site and a great post... I remember reading the Two Towers one last year.Anyway, I'm in the process of trying to construct a soundtrack CD that is in movie order, but I'm having some trouble determining exactly where certain scenes occurred in the movie. Any help that someone might be able to provide would be greatly appreciated. For now, I've left score that is not featured in the movie in roughly the same place it was on the album. I'll update this post if I get any additional help. Thanks again. Here's the list.
Track 01 - All
Track 02 - All
Track 08 - All
Track 10 - 1:15 - End
Track 03 - 1:37 - 2:02
Track 03 - 2:35 - End
Track 04 - 0:00 - 1:08
Track 06 - All
Track 04 - 1:08 - End
Track 03 - 0:00 - 1:37
Track 03 - 2:02 - 2:35
Track 09 - 0:00 - 0:51
Track 07 - 0:52 - 1:29
Track 05 - All
Track 07 - 0:00 - 0:52
Track 10 - 0:00 - 1:15
Track 07 - 1:41 - 2:03
Track 09 - 0:51 - End
Track 11 - All
Track 12 - All
Track 13 - All
Track 14 - All
Track 15 - All
Track 16 - All
Track 17 - All
Track 18 - All
Track 19 - AllSincerely,
Brandonposted 01-01-2004 11:01 AM PT (US) Magpie
Standard Userer
The theme was called 'Caradhras' by many because it was first used there. It immediately moved from Caradhras when it was used in FOTR EE at the Walls of Moria. I've been waiting to see 'where else' it would be used so I could assign a more appropriate name and is the reason that many of us were actively listening for it in ROTK. An association with mountains has been suggested and heights sound good. If it was to be used at Cirith Ungol (Shelob's Lair)... I'd go with heights.It appeared more than once in the ROTK soundtrack... any ideas on where it was used other than Cirith Ungol, Doug?
[Message edited by Magpie on 01-01-2004]
posted 01-01-2004 11:09 AM PT (US) franz_conrad
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quote:
Originally posted by Hornerfan:
Franz said: "Caradhras theme doesn't appear in the film." Of course it doesn't. This is the name of the mountain where the Fellowship got trapped in Fellowship of the Ring before going into the mines. It would have no business being in The Return of the King. And why would a mountain have a theme, anyway?Of course, why would a mountain have a theme? Especially in a series like LOTR where mountains clearly are of no import... Mount Doom, Amon Din, Caradhras, the Dimholt road under 'the Mountain', the Ered Gorgoroth - what are these but piles of stones?!
posted 01-01-2004 05:12 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB