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      Underrated Goldsmith Gems

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    Topic:   Underrated Goldsmith Gems

     Graham Watt
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    As most of us are on about the great Jerry Goldsmith at the moment, I was just considering those marvellous scores of his which nobody ever seems to mention. I've been re-listening to a lot of his work as my own personal, and very silent, tribute, and I came across the following -

    BAD GIRLS - This is a great score, every bit as good as his vibrant 60s westerns work. The overly tranquil first track may put some people off, but in context it's a very pertinent version of the more rollicking material - and rollicking it is. A great score.

    THE STRIPPER - What a lovely score. The Alex North-isms are everywhere. It's the kind of style Goldsmiith never really revisited, at least not to this extent.

    MACARTHUR - Everybody talks about PATTON, which is brilliant, but as a listening experience I actually find MACARTHUR more varied and enjoyable. Gotta love those "inside the piano" bits!

    SEBASTIAN - Listened to it again today. You all know FLINT. This is even better. Gotta love those Beatles 60s trumpety bits! Loads of good stuff on this brief score (jazzy Bach takes, very freaky PLANET OF THE APES trippy reverb, jolly pop Jerry-style...) GREAT!

    Which ones do YOU know that nobody ever talks about?

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    posted 07-24-2004 04:59 PM PT (US)     

     justin boggan
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    I don't know any compelte scores of fthe top of my head, but his main title for Hollister - the rest of the film score was by his son, Joel.
    Guitar strumming (if that is the apporpriate phrase) and trumpet theme that was ncie and flowing.

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    posted 07-24-2004 05:10 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Graham Watt:
    BAD GIRLS - This is a great score, every bit as good as his vibrant 60s westerns work. The overly tranquil first track may put some people off, but in context it's a very pertinent version of the more rollicking material - and rollicking it is. A great score.

    I only know the bits on the Varese Box so far, but those are among my favourites from those CDs.

    Let me add:

    • Hollow Man - Wonderful minimalistic science music, excellent action writing (might seem generic at first, but there are so many details to discover). Plus the hidden Gremlins quote.

    • Night Crossing - highly regarded among those who know it, I think, but probably not well-known enough. Wonderful flying music, one of his best scores.

    • Star Trek: Insurrection - this shouldn't be judged by the official album, but the full score as represented on the boot flows wonderfully well, and is IMHO better than First Contact.

    • Fierce Creatures - wonderful little chamber-like score.

      And finally:

    • The Final Conflict - this is of course generally listed among his best scores, but I still think it's even better than that. One of the most amazing scores I've heard.

    NP: Leviathan (Jerry Goldsmith)

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    posted 07-24-2004 05:19 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    I always say The Reincarnation Of Peter Proud is one of his best 70s scores, completely creating the melancholy eerieness from virtually nowhere. The film is watchable, but mostly stale in terms of emotive acting. If anybody out there has seen it/heard it, I'd like to hear what you think.

    Also re-watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture the other day. The scoring of the "Spock Walk" sequences is freaking awesome. That's all I had there.

    Shaun

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    posted 07-24-2004 07:07 PM PT (US)     

     SBD
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    In full agreement on FIERCE CREATURES. I must add the following:

    S*P*Y*S - A beautifully wacky score that never fails to bring a smile to my face. The electronics in this are just astounding, as are the orchestrations. God bless Varese for including so much of it on the Fox box set.

    WARLOCK - Very subtle score that often bursts with energy, driven by a terrific main theme.

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    posted 07-24-2004 08:33 PM PT (US)     

     scoreguy16
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    I just have to say I love Fierce Creatures. I found a new copy for like $1 on Overstock.com and thought I'd give it a shot and it's just a nice relaxing score. I kept listening to it over and over again. I think in one day I listened to it 4 or 5 times (which is a big deal for me!)

    Clayton

    Np>Return to Paradise

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    posted 07-25-2004 12:07 AM PT (US)     

     Howard L
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    Matinee. Wonderful loving parody of the Percy Faith Theme from A Summer Place and the winsome Halfway Home do it to me every time.

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    posted 07-25-2004 01:03 AM PT (US)     

     franz_conrad
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    I really quite like these two which either don't have anything said about them, or much that is good anyway:

    ST: Nemesis - whether it's derivative of other action scores of his or not, it just feeeeeeeeeeeels epic - like battles in space. I love the little tip of the hat to Logan's Run in 'The Box' as well. And the simple five-note theme is a lovely final thematic idea for the series, increasing the impact of the hated film to a higher level.

    Six Degrees of Separation - short, broken up by a lot of dialogue, but playful and clever. Would be nice to see the 15 minutes of score put on as an extra with say, IQ if it ever gets a release.

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    posted 07-25-2004 04:03 AM PT (US)     

     mgh
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    I have always enjoyed LOVE FIELD, which I think is one of his best scores. That bluesy piano is wonderful.

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    posted 07-25-2004 04:54 AM PT (US)     

     CindyLover1969
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    Hoosiers. I know his synth-heavy scores aren't to everyone's tastes, but for my money he got the mix of keyboards and orchestra just right with this charmer; and I have to admit I love playing Mr. Baseball, silly as it is. How come Goldsmith got the synths, for the most part (we'll forgive Criminal Law), so right and certain other composers (I won't name names because this isn't supposed to be a bashing thread), for the most part, so wrong?

    [Message edited by CindyLover1969 on 07-25-2004]

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    posted 07-25-2004 06:06 AM PT (US)     

     John C Winfrey
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    I also like many that you all mentioned here especially Love Field. The movie version and CD version quite different too.

    But I am particularly fond of many of his early and mid 60s work. Things like Stagecoach, In Harms Way, Rio Conchos, Lonely are the Brave, Stripper, List of Adrian Messenger and Morituri, Satan Bug, Seconds, etc. In these early years there are so many good and varied scores as he exploded onto the screen with his style.

    I love the short action cues in In Harms Way, not on the recording. The PT boat action cue and the one where battleship swings guns around to fire and the music for the enemy ships coming through the fog. Great score.

    John.

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    posted 07-25-2004 11:19 AM PT (US)     

     Spicy Ramen
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    I've always had a soft spot for Rudy.

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    posted 07-26-2004 08:55 PM PT (US)     

     Howard L
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    Not to be impertinent or anything but I would hardly characterize Hoosiers and Rudy as underrated.

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    posted 07-26-2004 09:49 PM PT (US)     

     Richard Street
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    By "underrated", that would mean scores that generally aren't well regarded, and I don't think there are too many of those; there isn't much of a school of thought that claims THE BLUE MAX isn't very good, for example.

    I don't really know a lot of Goldsmith's earlier scores, particularly his Westerns (Disc 2 of the FoxBox is a great sampler of these, though), but am more familiar with his work from the mid-70s onwards. I played a few tracks earlier today from A PATCH OF BLUE, though, and I think the Intrada release of that score will be my next JG purchase (replacing that Mainstream CD).

    I'd forgotten what a good listen LEVIATHAN is. Some ferocious action music, and (perhaps appropriately, considering the movie) a rather cheesy final track ("A Lot Better").

    Like many others, I admire LOVE FIELD a lot. Very short (I think it comes in at just under 29 minutes), but a joy to hear. And I like CRIMINAL LAW. It's a wonderfully atmospheric disc to play in the car on a night drive, though . Another one that probably doesn't get the accolades I think it deserves is EXTREME PREJUDICE, and in particular the wonderful 9-minute-plus cue "The Plan", which for me has practically infinite repeat value.

    NP: MALICE (Jerry Goldsmith) - another goodie.

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    posted 07-27-2004 12:43 PM PT (US)     

     Vinylscrubber
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    Richard, i would agree with you totally on EXTREME PREDJUDICE. It's a splendid example of one of Goldsmith's "textural" scores, with much internal energy and moments of great creativity.

    I must also second John C.'s judgement of the missing cues of IN HARM'S WAY--they are exactly the ones that I miss from the album version. I would especially love to hear the P.T. boat cue clear of the sound effects, and the actual continuation of "The Attack" cue.

    Aside from these, I harbor a yen to have his great little electronic main title from the busted TV pilot from ARCHER someday.

    I also have a secret hope that Varese, with their 20th Century Fox connection,
    might someday gift us with a collection of cues from THE WALTONS.

    The truly unattainable would be the release of LONELY ARE THE BRAVE from Universal and, perhaps finding the complete THE SATAN BUG among Goldsmith's personal tapes--hope springs eternal.

    (And, yes, this does seem all very premature and, somehow, inappropriate at the moment.)

    [Message edited by Vinylscrubber on 07-27-2004]

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    posted 07-27-2004 03:06 PM PT (US)     

     Axur Furyen
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    I thought OutLand was very underrated at that.

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    posted 07-27-2004 10:27 PM PT (US)     

     JeffBond
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    I'm glad somebody mentioned Warlock; to me that's a great little throwback to his old 70s horror scores and I always feel like I'm the only one defending it. Ditto Criminal Law and Love Field; nice little albums.

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    posted 07-28-2004 11:01 AM PT (US)     

     moviescore
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    How about these:

    CABO BLANCO (some stunning action writing)
    LINK (admit you love the main theme)
    ANGIE (such a fine, Mancini-esque theme)

    mikael

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    posted 07-29-2004 04:31 AM PT (US)     

     Luscious Lazlo
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    Axur Furyen said: "I thought OutLand was very underrated at that."

    The Mine and The Message are my 2 favorite Goldsmith tracks.


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    posted 07-29-2004 05:47 PM PT (US)     

     John C Winfrey
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    I also like OUtland a lot. The Hot Water cue is my favorite one on there. The orig Lp had great sound and is well performed. The extra cue that Mort Stevens did for OUtland incorporatiing the HOt Water cue in it, is great too.

    Richard, his early scores are very, very good. And the Rio Conchos score and Lonely are the Brave are super scores. One of my favorite cues in Lonely is the barroom fight where Kirk D takes on the onearmed man. Great cue. Action writing at its best.

    John.

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    posted 07-29-2004 10:12 PM PT (US)     

     big steve
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    THE CHALLENGE is not only a really fine score, but also one of JOHN FRANKENHEIMER'S best, but least known films. BASIC INSTINCT is also tip top. JERRY should have won the Oscar for this very fine, and memorable score. Then again, he should have won a boatload of Oscars.

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    posted 07-29-2004 11:20 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Shaun, I remember seeing THE REINCARNATION OF PETER PROUD years ago on the TV. The film didn't make much of an impression, but I still recall the Goldsmith score. Very haunting theme which uses an unusual jump melodically - classic 70s Goldsmith. Wasn't there a scene where they played tennis or something, backed by a very lively version of that? I also seem to recall (though maybe not) some fairly "rudimentary" electronics for when Michael Sarrazin is swimming.

    Richard and Vinylscrubber - yes, EXTREME PREJUDICE is on my list of underrated gems. I didn't like it at first (I thought the electronics were too up-front), but in retrospect it's one of Jerry's more interesting scores from the late 80s. I now love that irregular synthesized beat in the Main Titles (and the very regular thud of it in the End Titles).

    Moviescore, I just re-listened to CABO BLANCO the other day in my A to Z Jerry G homage (as you see, I just got to the letter C). It's got some great stuff on it. That second track, "The Diving Bell" or something, is just hypnotic! And yes, great action cues. Plus my favourite Jerry G song, the one done with a 40s orchestration.

    John, I too love LONELY ARE THE BRAVE, though I wouldn't call it underrated. That's an acknowledged classic, so there's no room for it in this thread! But as you bring it up, I always thought that the bar-room brawl cue you mention was extremely like the Main Titles for TARANTULA (50s hairy horror classic - you know it). Now, I think that was actually written by Herman Stein, but it was conducted by Joseph Gershenson, who conducted... LONELY ARE THE BRAVE. Listen to that track again and see if you agree that something funny's going on.

    Must add one or two more -

    INCHON - great war score nobody ever talks about.

    BREAKOUT - great action score nobody ever talks about.

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    posted 07-30-2004 05:12 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Was just listening to another possible candidate - HOUR OF THE GUN (maybe kind of borderline underrated). Great! One of those tracks, either "Ambush" or "Whose Cattle" has an almost Miklos Rozsa EL CID epic feel to it. And I do love that opening track, the modernistic version arranged, I believe, by Goldsmith himself (?). Sounds almost like Ron Grainer's exciting theme for THE PRISONER!

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    posted 07-30-2004 05:22 PM PT (US)     

     John C Winfrey
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    Graham, I love all those you mentioned. All some of my favs. I think most of the younger people today are not all that familiar with Lonely are the Brave. A great score. That barroom cue has the main theme worked into it twice(from this score). Its great too.

    To me they dont sound similiar at all. To me its Goldsmith all the way.

    Yes, I do have several cues from Tarantula by Stein and by Mancini and all are good.

    John.

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    posted 07-30-2004 08:17 PM PT (US)     

     scoreaholic
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    Is it likely that the music to The Burbs would be released, or am I so out of it that it has been released? I also wish that I might be able to find the score to the first Gremlins movie. I hear that it's good. I know that The Burbs has a ripoff of Patton in it and I think that's what makes it great.(Plus it's a great movie)

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    posted 07-31-2004 12:05 PM PT (US)     

     Timmer
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    quote:
    Originally posted by scoreaholic:
    Is it likely that the music to The Burbs would be released, or am I so out of it that it has been released? I also wish that I might be able to find the score to the first Gremlins movie. I hear that it's good. I know that The Burbs has a ripoff of Patton in it and I think that's what makes it great.(Plus it's a great movie)


    Yep! The Burbs was an early varese CD club release that is hard to find now without having to pay extortionate prices, and it's only about 30 minutes at that.

    I believe there's a boot out there too.


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    posted 07-31-2004 04:42 PM PT (US)     

     Howard L
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    YEEEEESH please don't call a deliberate piece of satire a ripoff. We know what real ripoff is. Just read:
    www.shef.ac.uk/~cm1jwb/honeyicd.htm


    *********************************************************************

    [Message edited by Howard L on 07-31-2004]

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    posted 07-31-2004 04:58 PM PT (US)     

     Alexborn007
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Timmer:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by scoreaholic:
    [b]Is it likely that the music to The Burbs would be released, or am I so out of it that it has been released? I also wish that I might be able to find the score to the first Gremlins movie. I hear that it's good. I know that The Burbs has a ripoff of Patton in it and I think that's what makes it great.(Plus it's a great movie)
    <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Yep! The Burbs was an early varese CD club release that is hard to find now without having to pay extortionate prices, and it's only about 30 minutes at that.

    I believe there's a boot out there too.

    [/B]


    There is indeed a boot for the score...it pops up on EBay from time to time. Don't know any tracklistings.

    I hope they re-release this score though in some capacity. It is my favorite Dante/Goldsmith score and the themes he created for it were just perfect. Some laugh out loud moments in the actual score (the end of the End Credits) and just a wonderful levity graces the music. It's used nicely in the film as well.

    NP- Man on Fire

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    posted 07-31-2004 07:44 PM PT (US)     

     Dana Wilcox
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    I've been listening to the Goldsmith disc (#2 of the 4 discs) from the Twilight Zone (TV) The 40th Anniversary Collection and marvelling at how inventive and interesting was young Jerrald Goldsmith in those days. He had virtually complete freedom to create when he wrote those scores, and not surprisingly this disc has some amazing music on it.

    (The boot of THE 'BURBS is a real piece of crap, BTW -- highly un-recommended!)


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    posted 08-02-2004 09:07 PM PT (US)     
     

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