First time writer, long time fan. I just finished listening through the entire Fellowship: Complete Recordings for the umpteenth time today, and wanted to add my own personal thanks here to Doug and the rest of the folks responsible for the CR. This set is a real treasure! I can hardly wait for The Two Towers and Return of the King sets.

I've noticed an odd "glitch" of sorts on the Fellowship recording though, and have been meaning to ask if anyone else has heard it as well. I haven't seen anyone else bring it up, so there's a possibility I've got a wonky CD (I'll have to listen to the 5.1 DVD tonight to verify). Here's the issue:

In the track "The Nazgûl", during Viggo's solo performance of "The Song of Lúthien", there's a very noticable change in the audio quality right around the 5:00 / 5:01 elapsed time. It sounds as if the treble EQ mix drops out significantly - such that his last line of lyrics ("A renc gelebrin thiliol") sounds very muffled compared to the opening lyrics of the song.

Has anyone else run into this, or is it indeed a slight hiccup in the mix inherent in the recording?

Many Thanks,
~Valandil~

I thought that that was just how muttering Viggo was?

All kidding aside, I have no idea, I will have to check my copy.

The very same. Howdy!

>>I thought that that was just how muttering Viggo was?<<

Zing! Then perhaps I should say the treble EQ of his muttering changes quality noticably.

I listened to the audio DVD included in FOTR:CR this afternoon and actually heard it there as well. I'm really curious to find out if anyone else can hear it (is it just me?). It almost sounds as if the last line is tracked in from a different recording. Did Viggo ever record the song in a studio, or was it done exlusively "on set"? If so, that could possibly explain the difference, especially if there's a camera cut at that spot and the shot was mic'ed differently (I'm guessing). Perhaps Doug could shed some light on it.

By the way, after finishing my personal "music only" version of FOTR, I have to say that the extra little inclusions outweight the cutdowns by far.
Also, while finishing "The Shadow Of The Past" I noticed two differences in the film:

1) after Gandalf's return to Bag End, he and Frodo sit down and discuss Sauron's resurrection and Gollum. Right when Frodo says "but Sauron was destroyed", there's a quiet statement of the Descending Third motif. Is that tracked in the film or was that part of the original recording?

2) I noticed that Gandalf's visit in Minas Tirith is slightly longer in the film. When Gandalf sits down, that ominous string line which leads into the choral piece accompanying Isildur's memories is longer in the film. Again, is that tracked material or original score? Doesn't sound like tracked, though.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Yes, I've noticed it, but was never bothered by it or anything.

By the way, after finishing my personal "music only" version of FOTR, I have to say that the extra little inclusions outweight the cutdowns by far.
Also, while finishing "The Shadow Of The Past" I noticed two differences in the film:

1) after Gandalf's return to Bag End, he and Frodo sit down and discuss Sauron's resurrection and Gollum. Right when Frodo says "but Sauron was destroyed", there's a quiet statement of the Descending Third motif. Is that tracked in the film or was that part of the original recording?

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That's not the Descending Thirds down there, beginning at 37 minutes into the film. It's very quiet, but it's definitely the Thread of Mordor. I'd say it's tracked (maybe slightly remixed as well) and could come from various points of the score.

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2) I noticed that Gandalf's visit in Minas Tirith is slightly longer in the film. When Gandalf sits down, that ominous string line which leads into the choral piece accompanying Isildur's memories is longer in the film. Again, is that tracked material or original score? Doesn't sound like tracked, though.

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Hmmm...I'd say these seven seconds (32:07 to 32:13) were simply "cropped" for the album. It's entirely possible that the scene was re-edited late in the process and Shore's music ws too short by six seconds. If it's tracked or mini-re-scored...beats me. And even I have better things to do than worrying about six seconds out of three hours' worth of music! Although...I was watching FotR EE for the first in months this past weekend, and I noticed the same thing. Ahem...

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Plus, is the recording of "Bag End" any different from the SEE version (maybe the tempi?) because I had a hard time making it match the film (and no, I did not forget to adjust the PAL speedup)?

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Eh? Why would you try to match the muisc from CD when watching the film? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

The music that plays when Elrond remembers the battle of the Last Alliance, heard on the CR in 'The Sword That Was Broken' (from 1'01 to 1'51) and especially when Elrond and Isildur stand in Sammath Naur: is that a fully orchestral version of the Mordor Outline motif? I also remember that when watching RotK I felt a bit confused that this motif wasn't brought to the fore as for this scene in FotR. Doug's PDF notes don't say much about this.

Thoughts?

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
I noticed that Gandalf's visit in Minas Tirith is slightly longer in the film. When Gandalf sits down, that ominous string line which leads into the choral piece accompanying Isildur's memories is longer in the film.

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There's a brief choral piece just after Aragorn's fight with Lurtz that doesn't seem to be in the movie as well.

I noticed the same thing this week, but forgot to check it against the lyrics provided by Doug...

So: kudos to Incanus for solving another knot in this tapestry!

There are so many wonderful and not to mention sharp eared people working on these lyrics on the Magpie's brilliant site. I urge everybody to check it out if you have not done so already:
www.geocities.com/magpie930

I thought this little advertisement would not hurt

BTW I am still little uncertain what is the Mordor outline motif. Could somebody clarify that. Can it be heard more clearly in the RotK OST or somewhere else? I wish I could read music so this problem would not excist because Doug has that notation written down in the liners.

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Originally posted by Incanus:
Thanks Christian!
I am a bit obsessive about those lyrics It is not enough for me to get the whole poem but I really need to know what the choir or soloist is actually singing word for word.

There are so many wonderful and not to mention sharp eared people working on these lyrics on the Magpie's brilliant site. I urge everybody to check it out if you have not done so already:
www.geocities.com/magpie930

I thought this little advertisement would not hurt

BTW I am still little uncertain what is the Mordor outline motif. Could somebody clarify that. Can it be heard more clearly in the RotK OST or somewhere else? I wish I could read music so this problem would not excist because Doug has that notation written down in the liners.

[Message edited by Incanus on 06-11-2006]

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Incanus,

it is so very good to know that there's aonther guy who obsesses over these lyrics!! Ha, I love it. I know about Magpie's site, but go far too little; I shall change that soon.

As for the Mordor outline motif: I don't have the FotR booklet here with me, so I am not 100% sure. The Mordor outline can be best heard behind/below the orchestral mayhem in 'The End of All Things', starting at 1:50, the alternating timpani strokes a fourth apart (if I remember that correctly...Doug to the Rescue, please!).

Any more thoughts?

I do have a question for Doug about the following:
http://www.creationent.com/cal/elf.htm

"Doug Adams: When Doug last joined us in Florida last year, he was still working with Howard Shore on the Fellowship of the Ring - The Complete Recordings. It is available now, and if you own it, you will be able to see Doug's work in the accompanying booklet. Doug will give a talk about this recording and the work going on now for the Two Towers box set, plus answer questions."

I am nowhere near Florida so Doug, if you would be so kind as to post a possible transcript of this event (or anyone else if they are going) or any other info that would be great! Thanks!

-Chad

I know, I know...what?

Christian

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:

The Battle of Dagorlad is out already. That’s the text to the first track of the original soundtrack CD from back in 2001. The text itself will be in the book, but since it’s not in the film, and hence, not in the boxed set, the text isn’t in the notes. It’ll come, don’t worry.

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While the full text isn't present in the CR, unless I'm mistaken, one phrase of it is: at 5:33-49 of "Prologue: One Ring To Rule Them All" (Gollum finding the Ring and going into the Misty Mountains) I hear "tercano nuruva". This passage is nearly identical to 1:12-28 of "The Prophecy".

I'm not hearing things that aren't there, am I?

Hmmm...me needs to play The Prophecy now!

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Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
My turn.

*bump*

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Hmmm, that didn't get very far, did it? lol

BTTT!!

Been a busy few weeks for me, but I’ll try to sort though as many questions as I can here.

>>>If so, that could possibly explain the difference, especially if there's a camera cut at that spot and the shot was mic'ed differently (I'm guessing). Perhaps Doug could shed some light on it.>>>

I’m 99% positive that this is not the sound from on-set, simply because about 90% of the LOTR films is looped to begin with. Either way, you’ll always hear a slight discrepancy moving from one mic arrangement to the next. Good engineering can hide a lot of this, but there will always be a trace.

>>>The music that plays when Elrond remembers the battle of the Last Alliance, heard on the CR in 'The Sword That Was Broken' (from 1'01 to 1'51) and especially when Elrond and Isildur stand in Sammath Naur: is that a fully orchestral version of the Mordor Outline motif? I also remember that when watching RotK I felt a bit confused that this motif wasn't brought to the fore as for this scene in FotR. Doug's PDF notes don't say much about this.>>>

The Mordor Outline figure is a pretty specific device, almost entirely unique to the timpani. I’d say you can hear some related playing around 1:27 in the track in question, but I don’t know that you could call that a direct descendent of the original figure. And as for that brass figure returning elsewhere—oh, you’d better bet that bit has some structural relevance! Again, looking to the idea of these notes constantly locking forwards a backwards, we won’t get to that until ROTK, but I’ll give you a hint: the brass is playing a-minor, f-minor. Arpeggiate those chords, the a-minor chord ascending, the f-minor descending. Hear anything familiar?

>>>BTW I am still little uncertain what is the Mordor outline motif. Could somebody clarify that. Can it be heard more clearly in the RotK OST or somewhere else? I wish I could read music so this problem would not excist because Doug has that notation written down in the liners.>>>

The Mordor Outline is specifically what the timpani plays at 3:44 in track 11, for example.

>>>I do have a question for Doug about the following: http://www.creationent.com/cal/elf.htm

"Doug Adams: When Doug last joined us in Florida last year, he was still working with Howard Shore on the Fellowship of the Ring - The Complete Recordings. It is available now, and if you own it, you will be able to see Doug's work in the accompanying booklet. Doug will give a talk about this recording and the work going on now for the Two Towers box set, plus answer questions.">>>

In Florida last year I just did a piece discussing the themes in the trilogy and showing that there are essentially connections between EVERYTHING. In fact, if you take any given theme and compare it to any other given theme, there is always at least one connection, be it pitch-wise, rhythm-wise or style-wise.

I don’t think anyone taped the event, but I don’t know. Speaking engagements are fast and furious sometimes—they edge into sensory overload very quickly, so you don’t always walk away with the crispest memories. For this one, I just remember showing up, getting clipped with the proper ID passes, then being stuck in a holding pen next to John Rhys-Davies and Sean Astin.

Late next month I’ll be speaking in New Jersey, actually, not Florida. And to be honest, other than the fact that I’ll be previewing the Two Towers boxed set, I’m not yet sure what exactly I’ll be saying! Any suggestions?

>>>Why is it that whenever I see a picture of Doug, I'm imagining a call "Honey, I'm home!"?>>>

Ha! Well, “honey” lives across town, and if she ever came home to me standing in the doorway making that face, she’d probably call the cops!

Anyway to be accurate, I’m making my, “It’s about 20 degrees Fahrenheit out here, take the picture before I turn blue!” face. That was a cold, cold day.

>>>While the full text isn't present in the CR, unless I'm mistaken, one phrase of it is: at 5:33-49 of "Prologue: One Ring To Rule Them All" (Gollum finding the Ring and going into the Misty Mountains) I hear "tercano nuruva". This passage is nearly identical to 1:12-28 of "The Prophecy".>>>

Yes, you’re absolutely right. All of this will be discussed in more detail in the book. Can’t give it all away, right?

>>>Doug, could we have an update on TTT?>>>

Well sure!

I listened to the newest edit of the discs in NY about two weeks ago. Right now decisions are being made about tracks breaks, disc breaks, track titles and the such. For the math-minded among you, the liner notes are currently 8,762 words long, but that’ll no doubt shift around a little over the next few weeks. In the meantime, I’m starting to make my way into the Annotated Score material.

Oh and a release date has been set. With good luck, it should be announced shortly. I know Warners is anxious to get their hands on materials soon.

Does that help?

-Doug

Let me get back to you, OK?

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the brass is playing a-minor, f-minor. Arpeggiate those chords, the a-minor chord ascending, the f-minor descending. Hear anything familiar?

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>the brass is playing a-minor, f-minor. Arpeggiate those chords, the a-minor chord ascending, the f-minor descending. Hear anything familiar?
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yikes! Look, it's The Pity Of Gollum!

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Good man...

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Originally posted by EldarionSonOfElessar:
Hey Doug, when does Howard Shore's official website launch?

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Honestly, I haven't any idea. Dan Goldwasser is the man behind the scenes on that one -- though, I don't think he has an exact date for launch either.

Sorry I can't be more useful here.

-Doug

Where and when?

Is this engagement open to the public?

I live in New York and have an EZ Pass...

That's been happening a lot to me lately...

This has nothing to do with the emotional,loving atmosphere we were presented in the appendices.Maybe it never did.Maybe it's just about money.More money.I probably (don't) understand how busy Mr. Shore must be,but he could've find time to deal with the new CR.Especially now that LOTR made rich(er) every cast/crew member of the trilogy.

Even the interest for the new complete recordings(or any LOTR new merchendise)seems to be faded.This thread,for example,looks like it's struggling to post new replies.And the ones that do appear,have nothing to do with the topic.

In conclusion,i hope that Mr. Sore and co.(and all the Hollywood;perhaps even the western world)understand that people and feelings should come first instead of profit.I mean this is what the LOTR music is all about.Feelings,right?

P.S.:More critics on the way.

[Message edited by Beren on 06-26-2006]

[Message edited by Beren on 06-26-2006]