Couple of questions for Doug (we're never running out; amazing, isn't it?).

First about the "Gilraen's Memorial" piece in FOTR: when the fellowship leaves, there's this yearning string theme that sounds a little like the Gandalf The White theme. Is there some connection or does this more relate to Aragorn?

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Mui, mui!

Couple of questions for Doug (we're never running out; amazing, isn't it?).

First about the "Gilraen's Memorial" piece in FOTR: when the fellowship leaves, there's this yearning string theme that sounds a little like the Gandalf The White theme. Is there some connection or does this more relate to Aragorn?

Secondly, one question about ROTK: the theme underscoring the title sequence frequently pops up in the early Frodo/Sam/Gollum scenes in various disguises. What's the story here? Apart from the Gondor theme and the motif for the Paths Of The Dead, this is the only major, new, reocurring theme in ROTK, and yet no one mentioned it yet.

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1) To my ears it sounds like a very clever mutation of the Fellowship theme. Not a perfect fit, but it doesn't have to be.

2) Could you give me a reference for the RotK theme? I think I know what you're aiming at, but I'd like to be sure. Ta!

I was in Bamberg this weekend...nice town!

If it's the arpeggios, they have to play a larger role in all three scores...they play in Rivendell, under Isildur's death during FotR's prologue, during "The White Tree" etc.

The string line appears to be shaped after Gollum's pity theme, which of course makes absolute sense. It's very similar to Gollum's Song as well.

My two cents...

The film version of "Forth Eorlingas" has a choral lyric to accompany the statement of the secondary White Rider theme as Gandalf appears on the crest of the hill (1:41 on the CD track); the choir isn't present on the OST. Do you know why?

(it's interesting to note that the EE credit scroll has that cue without both that and the boy soprano solo...)

And am I correct to assume that the choir will be in the CR mix?

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Originally posted by TheTennisBallKid:
And sort of related to that...

The film version of "Forth Eorlingas" has a choral lyric to accompany the statement of the secondary White Rider theme as Gandalf appears on the crest of the hill (1:41 on the CD track); the choir isn't present on the OST. Do you know why?

(it's interesting to note that the EE credit scroll has that cue without both that and the boy soprano solo...)

And am I correct to assume that the choir will be in the CR mix?

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I'd like to have that one, but it sounded (and I think I read it somewhere) as if this choral outburst was tracked-in. Or on top of the existing cue.

Regarding Georg's question: did Doug refer to any tinkering in the FotR notes? (I don't think he did, but I cannot check). I guess he will keep the "Unused Concepts", though.

Good night to all, if anyone can sleep in this infernal heat!

Sorry, same excuse as last time… too tied up writing and podcasting for the last little bit! I’ll do my best to respond to all recent questions tomorrow, because I’ll be on the road for about a week after that. Remember, if you’re in the NY area the last weekend this month (July, 2006), please drop me a line. [DAdams1127@aol.com] I’ll be at the OneRing.net’s convention giving a special Two Towers boxed set preview that weekend. (More info and my creepy headshot at: http://www.creationent.com/cal/elf.htm )

First round's on me.

Back tomorrow,

-Doug

P.S. to Doug: I love your podcasts over at FSM. They're always equally hilarious as they are educational. I especially loved the explanation on the harmonic techniques used by Williams on his Superman score. And Shore's version of the M:I theme, GENIOUS!

[Message edited by Shire Bagginz on 07-21-2006]

[Message edited by Shire Bagginz on 07-21-2006]

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
I’ll be at the OneRing.net’s convention giving a special Two Towers boxed set preview that weekend.

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Am I the only one who's more excited about this "preview" than I was when the movie previews were announced?

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
[Bhttp://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_013.mp3
[Powell’s X-Men][/B]

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What diegetic music can we expect for TTT? Eowyn's lament for Theodred seems obvious, but is there anything else? Treebeard's poetry? Gollum's fish-song? Theoden reciting "Where is the Horse and the Rider"? ;-)

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Originally posted by TheTennisBallKid:
Theoden reciting "Where is the Horse and the Rider"? ;-)

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Oooooh!

I can easily do without the Gollum and Treebeard stuff. Eowyn is a must though. I know people who complain about her singing, claiming she can't sing. IMHO, she's clearly the best singer in the cast, and the only one who sounds like she could actually stand on a stage and sing.

And regarding this: " Do I know what happens at five minutes into the eighth track?" and the later "Track 8 is 2:54"... I read the five minute sentence as a rhetorical question, not as a fact that the track in question was 5 minutes long, and then 2:54.

As for the intercutting, you mention, Georg...I am curious as to how they'll do all the intercutting during the Battle of Helm's Deep. I'd prefer not having jumping from Helm's Deep to Fangorn every minute or so. In which, of course, chronological order would be "jeopardized" in favor of just logical order.

We'll see...I won't have time to get and listen to this before Christmas this year anyways, so...

I might be wrong, of course. Particularly if the C bit mentioned above was composed only after the new bit was inserted into the movie, and C was musically designed to be between A and B. In that case, it would be easy to release AB as one lengthy cue as it was originally intended, but then you'd have nowhere to put C. I guess.

>>>First about the "Gilraen's Memorial" piece in FOTR: when the fellowship leaves, there's this yearning string theme that sounds a little like the Gandalf The White theme. Is there some connection or does this more relate to Aragorn?>>>

As Christian states, I think you’ll find the closest relative in the Fellowship theme. Although, keep in mind that both Aragorn’s Theme and Gandalf the White’s Theme come from Fellowship material, so it’s quite logical that this Fellowship develop should remind you of both.

>>>Secondly, one question about ROTK: the theme underscoring the title sequence frequently pops up in the early Frodo/Sam/Gollum scenes in various disguises. What's the story here? Apart from the Gondor theme and the motif for the Paths Of The Dead, this is the only major, new, reocurring theme in ROTK, and yet no one mentioned it yet.>>>

>>>The theme I'm talking about is easy to spot, it plays over the title sequence, like I said. The very first 30 seconds of the score.>>>

The first 30 seconds of ROTK are really just referencing a new type of hobbit music for Sméagol and Déagol. But really, as in Two Towers, these opening bars are more setting style and mood.

As for unique ROTK themes, there are actually quite a few. Certainly the Grey Havens theme merits a mention? Gondor’s Fourth Age theme? The Journey Back Again? Hey wait, I shouldn’t be mentioning these things yet…

>>>If it's the arpeggios, they have to play a larger role in all three scores...they play in Rivendell, under Isildur's death during FotR's prologue, during "The White Tree" etc.>>>

Yes, these wonderful little arpeggios are all over the LOTR scores, and we’ll finally take a look at their significance in The Return of the King.

>>>Here's another one:
Doug mentioned that in TTT, quite a few pieces were tinkered with.
Can we expect you to clear these re- edits up in the liner notes?>>>

All the major “tinkers” will be detailed, though that will end up in the Annotated Scores section online.

>>>The film version of "Forth Eorlingas" has a choral lyric to accompany the statement of the secondary White Rider theme as Gandalf appears on the crest of the hill (1:41 on the CD track); the choir isn't present on the OST. Do you know why?>>>

There was quite a bit of music moved around in this sequence, and this too will be covered in the Annotated Score. TTT probably ended up with more music moved than any other film in the trilogy, so there’s quite a good chunk to discuss under the Unused Concepts heading. However, if you’re looking for controversy and calamity behind the reasoning, you may end up disappointed. Essentially, all these changes were due to last minute edits or reconsiderations within the powers that be. No one ever threw the scores on the floor in a fit of rage or anything like that. So the Unused Concepts will mostly detail WHAT was changed since the WHYs become redundant and dull.

>>>And am I correct to assume that the choir will be in the CR mix?>>>

There are a few surprises for you in this composition, that’s all I’ll say right now.

>>>I'd like to have that one, but it sounded (and I think I read it somewhere) as if this choral outburst was tracked-in. Or on top of the existing cue.>>>

Hmmmm….

>>>Regarding Georg's question: did Doug refer to any tinkering in the FotR notes? (I don't think he did, but I cannot check). I guess he will keep the "Unused Concepts", though.>>>

>>>Well, yes, Doug didn't comment on the unused/ edited bits in FOTR because *there were none*>>>

Actually, there were about three, and all were mentioned in the Annotated Score. There was some extra music at Weathertop, there was an incomplete and unused cue at the Flooding of the Ford and there were a few extras bars at Amon Hen.

>>>I'm salavating at the thought of what this "special preview" entails. This can only mean that we should expect to here or possibly see what this "special preview" is very soon after it is presented at ORC.>>>

Ha! Well, in all honesty I’m still trying to decide what to discuss… and waiting to find out what I’m allowed to discuss! Seriously, other than simply standing on stage and playing the whole thing, anyone have any requests?

>>>P.S. to Doug: I love your podcasts over at FSM. They're always equally hilarious as they are educational. I especially loved the explanation on the harmonic techniques used by Williams on his Superman score. And Shore's version of the M:I theme, GENIOUS!>>>

Great, thank you so much! I have to give credit to the Kaplans for the Mission: Isengard theme.

>>>Am I the only one who's more excited about this "preview" than I was when the movie previews were announced?>>>

Ha!

>>>What do you mean by "preview"? Will there be something special or is it the usual "I'll tell you, but have to remain vague"?

A release date would be quite nice.>>>

It would indeed. I will find out if I’m allowed to mention it.

>>>[Bhttp://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_013.mp3
[Powell’s X-Men]

Now that's just mean. An extended version (film version? When I watched the film, I didn't yet have the CD, so I don't recall all the details) of the Dark Phoenix cue?>>>

Ok, I’ll freely admit I’m a little confused by this one! Did we play something here that wasn’t on the CD? We received a promo version, but I’m 99% certain it’s identical to the commercial release. If you’re referring to the “Dark Phoenix destroys the house” music… that morphs into Elfman’s Spider-man 2 halfway through, just to show the similarity in style.

>>>What diegetic music can we expect for TTT? Eowyn's lament for Theodred seems obvious, but is there anything else? Treebeard's poetry? Gollum's fish-song? Theoden reciting "Where is the Horse and the Rider"? ;-)>>>

As of the current edit, there will be one cast performer only on the Two Towers boxed set, and yes, you mention that performer above.

>>>Doug, you've mentioned that track 8 was about 5 minutes long, and a little later it was down to 2 and a half.>>>

Oh dear, no, no, no! That Track 8 at 5 Minutes thing was a joke. Track 8 has always been the same 2 and half minute length.

>>>Now, this implies that you do experiment with the intercutting of scenes. But from the very beginning you made clear that the music will be presented in chronological order.
Will or will it not be chronological?>>>

It will be chronological. Always has been, always will be. You will hear the music as Shore wrote it. Shore wrote his transitions to the film, to the intercutting. To undo this would be to jeopardize the structure of what Shore wrote… which is sort of the antithesis of this entire project’s goal. No such “creative editing” will occur, I promise!

-Doug

PS – I really m quite serious in asking what people would like to be presented with next weekend. Suggestions are most welcome. Anyone here planning to attend?

>>>As of the current edit, there will be one cast performer only on the Two Towers boxed set, and yes, you mention that performer above.>>>

Hmmm...let's see:

Éowyn: actually singing something; it's in the same kind of, say, The Lay of Beren and Luthien.

Théodred: "just" reciting a poem. No music involved.

Gollum: "So juicy-SWEEEEET". Dear God, no, please.

Treebeard: Entish rumbling and mumbling. No melody to be seen here, either.

So what will it be? Gollum.

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Originally posted by MJC:
Awesome post Doug. Great information...thank you. Yep I'm planning on attending next week and I'm looking forward to it.

Martin

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Good for you Martin, I'm jealous! Take good notes if you can!

-Chad

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Now that's just mean. An extended version (film version? When I watched the film, I didn't yet have the CD, so I don't recall all the details) of the Dark Phoenix cue?>>>

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The first 30 seconds of ROTK are really just referencing a new type of hobbit music for Sméagol and Déagol. But really, as in Two Towers, these opening bars are more setting style and mood.

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Ah! Good to know. But why does this theme return a couple of times then?

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>>>And am I correct to assume that the choir will be in the CR mix?>>>

There are a few surprises for you in this composition, that’s all I’ll say right now.

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Huh? I always thought apart from the added choir bit and the few bars that were edited out, "Forth Eorlingas" was pretty much how it was intended?

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Oh dear, no, no, no! That Track 8 at 5 Minutes thing was a joke. Track 8 has always been the same 2 and half minute length.
It will be chronological. Always has been, always will be.

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And what do we learn from this? Doug better be careful about his comments or he'll ultimately cause a war

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PS – I really m quite serious in asking what people would like to be presented with next weekend. Suggestions are most welcome. Anyone here planning to attend?

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That "playing the whole thing" idea sounded just fine!
One suggestion I have is for you: before doing anything, I'd make it clear to the audience that you're not allowed to go in- depth about TTT

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Hmmm...let's see:

Éowyn: actually singing something; it's in the same kind of, say, The Lay of Beren and Luthien.

Théodred: "just" reciting a poem. No music involved.

Gollum: "So juicy-SWEEEEET". Dear God, no, please.

Treebeard: Entish rumbling and mumbling. No melody to be seen here, either.

So what will it be? Gollum.

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LOL!

That's something that should be completely done on a four-eyes basis, ie eMail, and even then, I'm quite sure Doug won't be able to tell you much.

With that in mind...who(m?) I've gotta bribe to hear something of Shore's rejected composition?!

Enjoy the weekend, all!

PS – I really am quite serious in asking what people would like to be presented with next weekend. Suggestions are most welcome. Anyone here planning to attend?

Reply: Definitely will be attending... now, when...? Well, that all depends on when a certain Doug A will be there, of which there is NO, none, nada, nichts, nichevo posted here or on the ELF site... hint, hint!

Suggestions for music topics: I guess the most interesting would be a talk on how the various "LotR" Shore themes interrelate musically... But that might require a piano?

<<Gollum: "So juicy-SWEEEEET". Dear God, no, please....

...So what will it be? Gollum. >>

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Originally posted by rolltide1017:
Hey Doug,

I love reading your comments and look forward to the TTT release.

I have the same question as I did for the FOTR release (if you are able to answer it). Will most of the tracks end with the track making life easier for us iPoders (meaning the music will not continue over 2 tracks creating a pause on iPods)? I'm pretty sure I know the answer already since FOTR did a great job with this but, was just hoping confirmation. I think FOTR only had 2 instances were the music ran together through a track break but, it was in soft parts of the music making it less noticeable. Just hoping for the same with TTT.

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PS – Anyone here planning to attend?

Reply: Definitely will be attending... now, when...? Well, that all depends on when a certain Doug A will be there, of which there is NO, none, nada, nichts, nichevo posted here or on the ELF site... hint, hint!

OK, the very patient and professional Mr D Adams is off the hook on this one... The schedule for the ELF LotR Convention in the Meadowlands, NJ has been published on their website: http://www.creationent.com/cal/elf.htm#sch

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Originally posted by EldarionSonOfElessar:
Hey Doug, I don't know if you're allowed to answer this, but will TTT:CR have that annoying rubber nub that holds the DVD?

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