quote:

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Originally posted by Wedge:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am proud to present the REAL cover for the Two Towers CR! Click here!

As you can see, it is indeed blue....

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Wedge, I hope to heck you are joking because if it is real then I will be really disappointed.

-Chad

'Every note composed by Howard Shore in running order', I presume? No liner notes but a 65 page book of pictures?

More answers when there’s more time.

But, for right now…

None of these covers are real. One’s obviously a joke (Wedge, you rascal! ), all showcase some darn nice photoshopping… but none are the real deal.

Just clearing the air. More later.

Best,

-Doug

quote:

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Originally posted by Wedge:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am proud to present the REAL cover for the Two Towers CR!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
...and proud of it (if it is).

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-Chad

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
Hi everyone,

More answers when there’s more time.

But, for right now…

None of these covers are real. One’s obviously a joke (Wedge, you rascal! ), all showcase some darn nice photoshopping… but none are the real deal.

Just clearing the air. More later.

Best,

-Doug

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Thanks for clearing that up Mr.Adams. Really thanks.

And that red-eyed Uruk is definiely Ugluk. Lurtz died in Fellowship. Looks okay, but Gandalf looks better.

<<I've always wondered why none of the TTT sets figured Saruman outside/inside them. I mean, he's the driving force behind the invasion of Westfold and this was his war and his defeat. And he was the Head of the White Council, even if he did stray from his path So was just wondering...>>

TF: Well, that raises an interesting aspect of particularly the score, but certainly an aspect of the entire Film. Namely, it seems to me, that -- unlike JRRT -- the soundtrack in general and the music in particular (and the accompanying texts) give voice to the viewpoint of evil. We hear the voice of Sauron, we hear the chants of the Wraiths. In the book, however, JRRT never lets us see things from their perverse and twisted, evil, viewpoint. Rather Gandalf and others are reluctant to even utter Mordor-speak, the Black Speech, with the one exception of the quote of the Ring Inscription at the Council of Elrond (which book and Film share). This was obviously a conscious Jackson decision carried out by Salo, Shore, et al. But does it not to some degree cloud the ethical tone of the work?
This change in point of view is something that Doug may want to address, if only in brief, in his upcoming book... because I don't believe it is in any of the DVD commentaries and it is an important quality in the flim/score.
Any other reactions to this out there?
As for depicting individual characters on the covers, if one puts Gandalf the White on TTT, then Frodo should have gone on FotR, and Aragorn on RotK, if one considers each the main hero of those three, but that, I feel, is not really the case, and would focus too much on one individual character...
Tim Fisher

quote:

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Originally posted by *Tom*:
Hi I live in Australia and I've got a question for Doug or anyone else who might know. Will the TTT CR be released in Australia? The FOTR CR wasn't released here and I had to get it sent in from the US which took 2 months. I'm wondering if it'll be the same with TTT CR. Thanks

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2 MONTHS!!!For me it took 10 days to be delivered,from the UK to somewhere in Eastern Europe(where i live).Is the distance such a big obstacle?And USA is just over the Ocean.Anyway,i'm (almost)sure that this time the CR will be released in more countries.But Mr. Admas will enlight you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Timdalf:
Originally posted by Earl Ignatius Carvalho:

<<I've always wondered why none of the TTT sets figured Saruman outside/inside them. I mean, he's the driving force behind the invasion of Westfold and this was his war and his defeat. And he was the Head of the White Council, even if he did stray from his path So was just wondering...>>

TF: Well, that raises an interesting aspect of particularly the score, but certainly an aspect of the entire Film. Namely, it seems to me, that -- unlike JRRT -- the soundtrack in general and the music in particular (and the accompanying texts) give voice to the viewpoint of evil. We hear the voice of Sauron, we hear the chants of the Wraiths. In the book, however, JRRT never lets us see things from their perverse and twisted, evil, viewpoint. Rather Gandalf and others are reluctant to even utter Mordor-speak, the Black Speech, with the one exception of the quote of the Ring Inscription at the Council of Elrond (which book and Film share). This was obviously a conscious Jackson decision carried out by Salo, Shore, et al. But does it not to some degree cloud the ethical tone of the work?

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A book is a very different medium. When reading it, you know what drives the characteres and the events. At the back of your mind, the threat and the evil loom large, no matter what part of it you are reading, even if it be "in the afternoon of the Shire". But using film, the only way this can be achieved is by having a way of transferring this sense of despairing hope - either visually or vocally. Which is why the music created by Mr.Shore is so effective in evoking this feeling no matter how visually breathtaking the visuals may be.

quote:

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This change in point of view is something that Doug may want to address, if only in brief, in his upcoming book... because I don't believe it is in any of the DVD commentaries and it is an important quality in the flim/score.

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So it really isn't a change in the point of view (in my opinion) since the books and the movies (with the help of the music of course), definitely impart the same "feel" concerning the dual themes of the Quest and the War.

What do you think about this?

quote:

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Any other reactions to this out there?
As for depicting individual characters on the covers, if one puts Gandalf the White on TTT, then Frodo should have gone on FotR, and Aragorn on RotK, if one considers each the main hero of those three, but that, I feel, is not really the case, and would focus too much on one individual character...
Tim Fisher

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quote:

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Originally posted by *Tom*:
Hi I live in Australia and I've got a question for Doug or anyone else who might know. Will the TTT CR be released in Australia? The FOTR CR wasn't released here and I had to get it sent in from the US which took 2 months. I'm wondering if it'll be the same with TTT CR. Thanks

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i also live in australia and i ordered my copy of FOTR CR from borders, it took exactly one month and the cost was $79.99AU

But i really hope they release two towers here in australia, HOPEFULLY DOUG CAN GIVE SOME INFO ON THE COUNTIRES THAT THE TTT CR WILL BE RELEASED IN

<<A book is a very different medium. When reading it, you know what drives the characters and the events. At the back of your mind, the threat and the evil loom large, no matter what part of it you are reading, even if it be "in the afternoon of the Shire". But using film, the only way this can be achieved is by having a way of transferring this sense of despairing hope - either visually or vocally. Which is why the music created by Mr.Shore is so effective in evoking this feeling no matter how visually breathtaking the visuals may be.

So it really isn't a change in the point of view (in my opinion) since the books and the movies (with the help of the music of course), definitely impart the same "feel" concerning the dual themes of the Quest and the War.>>

TF: Let me be more precise: No question a prose narrative is a different medium from a film drama. But there are descriptions available in prose. That, along with the characters' own words, is the only way one knows just what is indeed in any character's mind or one gets a sense of threatening doom. Nor I am talking about the overall effect of the score, and certainly not about "desperate hope" ("despairing hope" is rather an oxymoron...) which is certainly well expressed in both book and film and is essential to the overall theme of both works (what, I think it is by Galadriel to Frodo, is referred to as "fighting the long defeat").
No, I am referring to the chants of the Wraiths and the Orcs (the latter used heavily in Moria)... These are additions by the script writers and put to music by Shore. And I am not at all questioning their effectiveness, just their actual effect by giving us the point of view of evil, which I suspect JRRT intentionally avoided giving voice to. When these are put to music it necessarily evokes an identification with the evil, perfidious spirit behind them. For that is the effect of music: to enable us to vividly identify with whatever the music gives voice to or describes. On the other hand, I can see how it would be difficult NOT to give the Wraiths and Orcs some musical description just as in the book they are described visually. So I guess it boils down to wondering if anyone feels that hearing their actual words set to music is problematic...

Tim Fisher

Hey Beren/Timdalf/weyhoops/everyone/(Mr.Adams as and when you appear) quick question. Don't know if this has been discussed before.

I wanted to know whether Mr.Shore recorded complete songs or just parts of them, particularly the Rivendell version of A Elbereth Gilthoniel - of which we hear only the first and last two lines when the Fellowship is in RIvendell, Namarie and The Song of Luthien (Elven version - just two lines again??).

quote:

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Originally posted by Beren:
Maybe he's allowed to spread news only after the press release.

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Or maybe the "big bosses" found out that he leaked the release date. Will we ever see him again?

NP: FOTR:CR

As great as the FOTR DVD-A is, I find it *highly* annoying that the menu provides no pause and search (backwards and forwards) "buttons" and at the same time, the fact that there is a menu is the reason why the same buttons on my Arcam remote are disable. So if I have to pause at some point during the 3 hours of music, all I can do is mute or stop the disc, and start over at the beginning of the latest track when I'm done.

(I'm talking about the DVD-V layer here, since I don't have the DVD-A extension module for my player)

I'd very much like to see that remedied.

I came back from my 7-day vacation expecting to find a press release and everyone counting down the seconds until TTT. Oh, well. I guess I didn't miss anything when I was gone.

The same thing i was expecting to when i returned last week.Howerver,i believe that at his next post Mr. Doug Adams will blow up all of us with a 5-6(or almost) page review+details,tones of photos and samples of TTT:CR.All the bad to good(is there such an idiom?).

Tim Fisher

Responses have been slow lately because I’m knee-deep in Annotated Score materials right now. And I mean that pretty darn literally… Nearly every square inch of desk space, floor space and bulletin board real estate in my office is currently covered with CDs, DVDs, post-its, emails, music dictionaries, orchestration texts, Tolkien’s novel, spreadsheets, texts, staff paper, iPods, headphones, minidisks… and there’s probably a Taco Bell wrapper and a beer bottle or two under the bottom layers. I try to call it the “detritus of endeavor,” but it probably looks more like someone dropped a Staples on my house from a great distance.

With that said, I’m going to try to answer a handful of questions here tonight… but I’ll be doing somewhat a hyper-efficient answer-a-thon. Short and sweet is the name of the game tonight, so please no one be offended with curt answers, ok? And if I miss yours, please let me know and I’ll get you on the next round.

>>>Any reaction to having a cd (incl. with the book) of illustrating the commentary, or would that so delay and complicate matters as to be beyond reason? Again, I am thinking of Deryck Cooke's famous commentary on Wagner's Ring, which is of course an audio commentary with illustrations on the leitmotivs in Der Ring. So it might be just the themes, helpful for those not up to reading musical notation, or even some live on tape Doug Adams insights.....>>>

We’ve talked a bit about including bonus material with the book, and it’s certainly not out of the question. Book talks will heat up soon, I think. I know I have a number of calls to return on it, and these will all be addressed as soon as TTT is put to bed… although the window between TTT and ROTK looks to be pretty small!

>>>Now, that ROTK theme I mentioned can distinctly be heard a couple of times:
first over the title sequence, then over Frodo's line "The days are growing darker" (or around that time), then when Frodo and Sam pass the statue of the fallen king ("these lands were once part of the kingdom of Gondor") and finally after the argument at the pool, when Frodo grabs Gollum's hand (this could be just my perception though).>>>

Interesting insights. Let me see if I can shed some light.

Film’s opening:

Bb Dd F Dd Eb Bb Bb C

“The days are growing darker…”

C Eb G Ab Bb C D

“These lands were once a part of the Kingdom of Gondor…”

F Ab C Bb

They’re not all exactly the same motive as you can see, but they are all are based on arpeggiated minor triads. In a sense, they could potentially be related to the Pity of Gollum theme… especially in the second’s case… But they could also just be minor triads, which certainly are all over the score without any leitmotivic repercussions.

So which will be the final verdict? Time will tell!

>>>Oh, about the rubber knub! Are you aware that you indirectly told us there will be a DVD in the set, just like in FOTR's?>>>

Yep, I’m quite aware!

>>>Well, I have a strong desire for one in particular but, thinking it was a capella, I was a bit crestfallen. I just went and listened to a clip and realized that 'music' does sort of creep in at the end.>>>

>>>I do think it is interesting that there is such a change from the FOTR set, which contained every song heard in the film, even those that the music didn't conform to (Bilbo singing "The Road Goes Ever On" as he leaves Bag End). Was this a specific decision?>>>

I’ll say one more thing about the cast performance, then I’ll probably let it drop until the press release gives it away. There was no conscious effort on this release to move away from cast performances, it just worked out that way. The cast performances that weren’t used just didn’t work in context with the score. They were too short, came out of nowhere, went nowhere, and plopped in the middle of an hour of orchestral / choral music, felt uncomfortably out of place. Yes, they were tried, yes I heard them, and no, they didn’t really work. The one that remains fits in quite beautifully with its surroundings, is quite musical in its own right, and feels part of an organic whole.

It’s really quite lovely, and I think it’ll hit the spot for all of you. It did for me, anyway.

>>>Mr.Adams, that must've taken some time...thanks for answering so many questions. It's great to know that TTT:CR's price will be somewhere around what FOTR:CR's is. And thanks for replying about the colour concern too. I can't wait to see how TTT:CR tops FOTR:CRs design. As a designer (software...mind you), I didn't think that was possible - which is not necessarily a bad thing, because I'm *only* 22 and have a lot to learn anyway.>>>

Seeing as I’m fewer than 10 years older than you, I’ll have to politely request you remove the “Mr.” from my name! I once joked with Shore that I was upset that Emiliana Torrini was younger than me, and he started laughing. “Get used to it! Just wait until the cops start calling you ‘sir!’”

>>>If only for the excellent performance of Sissel during the solo's (wich I think are much better than on the soundtracks).>>>

Just as an FYI, I don’t think Sissel has performed the symphony for a while now. Kaitlyn Lusk has been doing the honors for some time. And her proud father is always front and center at the performances cheering her on. Very nice fellow.

>>>1) Does this edition fit on 3 CD, or we'll have another extra CD?>>>

I can’t say yet, but the citizens of this board have done a good job figuring the math on this.

>>>2) Are the mock ups of the packaging you have seen similar to these photoshoped images from this spanish blog?>>>

Ah that cursed Spanish blog! Actually, they did a very nice job with it. I’m sure you’ll see some mock-ups before the set is released. Design isn’t done yet, however. Everything is still being tweaked right now. In fact, they’ve just requested a slightly new shade of… uh, the color the cover is… to compare with the current edition. Whew, that was a close one.

>>>QUESTIONS FOR DOUG ADAMS: Will the End Credits music on the CR be like the OST or the film? On track 12 of TTT: OST, there's a choral part that comes in (during the warg attack) and it isn't there in the film. Instead, there is the hardinger fiddle. Will the CR have (all of) the choral part at a "reasonable" volume? (I absolutely love that choral part!!! It has such a beautiful, ethereal quality to it.) Thank you, Doug.>>>

Like the FOTR set, the TTT end credits will not include the DVD fan scroll music since that music is already on the set in its proper place. No point in making people pay twice for the same music, right? As for the Warg piece, you will hear it as Shore originally composed it. There’s quite a bit of tracking in that section of the film… even including some music from the first film.

>>>The pics on that link up there look great...I'm inclined to believe those aren't fake for atleast one reason. When I asked Doug whether the discs would be blue, his answer was an indirect "No". And I'm not complaining. The pics do show that though everything (physical packaging included) is the same, the discs retain their cream colour.

Of course, with Photoshop, I could've made those pics from off FOTR:CR (why does the THE TWO TOWERS text look a strange shade of yellow to me?? Maybe its just the cones in my eyes)

But Gandalf looks GREAT!!!>>>

Just repeating here to soothe my weary mind… these pics are fake. Any pics you will see of the set right now are fake. Even if you break into Warner Brothers and steal the current designs, you won’t see what will be available in October, because the design is not yet done.

By the way, please don’t break into Warner Brothers. People tend to frown upon things like that.

Oh, and yes, I know no one claimed these pics were real in the first place. I think things quickly got misconstrued on our multilingual board here, however.

>>>Question for Doug Adams:
Is that Ugluk or Lurtz? :-)>>>

It’s Uglúk, of course. And don’t forget the accent on the “u,” you’ll need it to properly type the track titles in a few months.

>>>Hi I live in Australia and I've got a question for Doug or anyone else who might know. Will the TTT CR be released in Australia? The FOTR CR wasn't released here and I had to get it sent in from the US which took 2 months. I'm wondering if it'll be the same with TTT CR. Thanks>>>

Honestly, I don’t know, simply because that’s not anywhere near my end of things. I do know, however, that there’s going to be an effort to have a greater number of units physically available in stores this time out, so people don’t have order off the Internet almost exclusively. I don’t know if this extends to international outlets, but let’s keep our fingers crossed.

>>>I've always wondered why none of the TTT sets figured Saruman outside/inside them. I mean, he's the driving force behind the invasion of Westfold and this was his war and his defeat. And he was the Head of the White Council, even if he did stray from his path So was just wondering...>>>

It’s all a matter of what high res pictures New Line has on hand, and what looks the most dynamic. In the case of covers, obviously the image has to be something iconic and representative of film’s story as a whole.

>>>Maybe he's allowed to spread news only after the press release.However on the last post he said that more news will come as soon as there's more time.Or another way of saying ...as soon as the "big bosses" allow to.>>>

>>>I wanted to know whether Mr.Shore recorded complete songs or just parts of them, particularly the Rivendell version of A Elbereth Gilthoniel - of which we hear only the first and last two lines when the Fellowship is in RIvendell, Namarie and The Song of Luthien (Elven version - just two lines again??).>>>

What you hear is what there is, for the most part. The songs were all written as part of the score, not as freestanding pieces which were arranged into the full piece. So nothing is being left out. However, the texts *were*in fact written this way, so the Annotated Score material will always list the entire choral text, even if not everything was set to music in the long run.

>>>Or maybe the "big bosses" found out that he leaked the release date. Will we ever see him again?>>>

Howard Shore called and asked me to please announce that people could expect a late October release. I’m relatively sure I was in the clear on that one. 

>>>I came back from my 7-day vacation expecting to find a press release and everyone counting down the seconds until TTT. Oh, well. I guess I didn't miss anything when I was gone.>>>

>>>Well at least we know month of release...October 2006.>>>

Sorry guys, the press release will come out when it comes out, I guess. I’m not a part of that loop, and as I’ve said before, I know some people had to take care of personal issues, so that clearly takes precedence. But hey, look at it this way… I said late October. CDs always come out on Tuesdays. There are five Tuesday’s in October. So if you take your early October, mid October and late October Tuesdays, you’re not going to have to work too hard to guess pretty close to the right date.

>>>Now, now, all you hasty hobbits... hoom hommmm!
Let's take this as a sign that Doug is soooo busy putting finishing touches on his liner notes and score annotations for that IMPENDING deadline (ahem!) that he just can't spare a moment to quiet all this orcish racket! ;-)
Or that like Bilbo he needs a little peace and quiet without all us S[o]B's hanging on the bell all day, so he can finish up and live happily ever after, to the end of his days.......>>>

I’m still more in the Hunched Over the Table, Quill in Hand mode, I think. Happily ever after is still a bit off!

See you next time!

-Doug