And I thought the press release would include pics...

Oh well.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
(...) and the cast performer (which most people have already guessed). (...)

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http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/005699.html

At the begining of the TTT:EE scoring documentary, you see (and hear) a clip from the FOTR scoring sessions showing the scene where Merry and Pippin create a diversion at Parth Galen so Frodo can escape.

In the film, we get just a hint of the Reclamation of Nature theme in that scene, but here it gets a lengthier statement, with a brass ending that I almost thought must have come from the Rohirrim at Pelennor...

Is there a story here? (perhaps they wanted to save the development of the theme for later?)

And is this piece a possible candidate for release as a rarity?

A spare moment has deposited itself on my doorstep – the TTT liners are done! And I mean actually done. Content, layout, everything. Fittingly, the final tweak was the placement of my name… because it had been set so as to make it appear that a picture of a marimba was labeled “Doug Adams.” (Even more confusing, it was an Adams brand marimba!)

So start your eye exercises now… there’s a whole bunch of tiny-fonted text coming your way soon!

>>>Doug. If there were going to be a multimedia aspect to your book, I would like to advocate for having audio examples of some of the musical concepts you discuss in the liner notes and, to a small extent, just now. Chords, harmonys, minor, major... I know what those words mean but I don't have enough musical knowledge to apply them in a meaningful way. I could almost cry when I see conversations like this and know that this is exciting stuff and I'm missing it all.>>>

I just had a conversation with Mr. Shore late last week regarding multimedia content with the book, and he had some *really* exciting ideas. Even with my grand plans, I was left asking, “Really, we can do that!?” Nothing’s solid yet, but that’s the next big thing to tackle, and it’s looking to be amazing!

>>>I'm hesitant to ask questions because I'm so aware of the fine line you walk with information. But this one's itching to be asked. You wrote: "Other than the songs, Shore didn’t write any new “material” for the credits in terms of new themes, but many the arrangements are unique to the credits." You've indicated Bilbo's Song was written especially for the credits but you used songs/plural. Does that mean that the song Sissel sings was also written for the credits? I can live with waiting for CR-ROTK, but the subject came up.>>>

The Sissel piece was written for the post-battle Fields of Pelennor and the Houses of Healing. Arwen’s song wasn’t originally going to be in there. And yes, of course, we’ll get to all the specific details in ROTK: CR.

>>>I'm also wondering about a song title for TTT that appeared in the Music for the Movies issue devoted to LOTR called "The Deeping Wall". It gave Elizabeth Frasier as the singer but it also lists Haldir's Lament and The March of the Ents so it can't be either of those two pieces. Was this some wrong information or is this something that gets illuminated in the CR-TTT?>>>

Sometimes a text would get one title, but the composition in which it was used would get another. You’ll even notice in the FOTR: CR credits there will be some “also known as” credits regarding texts and such. Most this was due to the legal filing of the cue sheets and copyrights. For example, the text would have its title (as decided by Philippa or Fran or Tolkien), the composition would have one title, it would get another title when edited into the OST, then another title again as it was entered into the CR. So there are a lot of multiple titles out there. (Sometimes there were even alternate text titles to deal with as well!) The Haldir’s Lament text was used inside the composition (originally) titled “The Deeping Wall.”

>>>Doug, once again, thank you for your insight! For someone who says that they don't have much info that sure was a lengthy post!>>>

I’m a fast… and lousy… typist.

>>>One question for you, have you ever pitched the idea to Howard Shore for a Q&A session here on the boards? Maybe to conincide with the release of TTT:CR? Of course this would be dependant on H.S.'s available time.>>>

Honestly, I don’t know that he’d have the time at this point, but I’m sure he appreciates the interest.

>>>However, your book or the rarities (whatever) disc, any ideas on the design(s) as yet? Know its too early, but wouldn't it look good if the design was based on the CR designs? In gold? silver(mithril)? And you don't have to answer this if you don't know the answers right now. I know how it feels to tell people that things haven't been decided as yet>>>

Yeah, there’s no idea on this yet! I’ll let you know once we’re getting closer.

>>>by the way how does the edit sound and have you got a hint at how long it is going to be or will that come in the press release?>>>

It sounds spectacular… and I haven’t even heard the DVD version yet. It’ll be longer than FOTR: CR, that’s all I can say right now. The press release will hint at a playing time, but as I noted in an earlier post, it’ll be deceptive.

>>>Nice to hear about that dwarven piece from the ROTK. If you said beer then it must be the music played during the drinking contest. >>>

I’d say that’s a pretty solid guess!

>>>And if your book will contain stuff from ROTK, then is it possible that you'll release it after ROTK:CR?>>>

The last I’ve heard, the publishers would like to have the book out around the same time as ROTK: CR, if not slightly earlier. That doesn’t mean that’s exactly when it will happen, but seems to be the prevailing thought at the moment.

>>>P.S.:Was Howard Shore inspired after Dvorak's first 5-6 seconds of the 9th symphony "New World",Largo movement,for a certain piece of shire music?Those 5-6 seconds of Dvorak sound a bit like the music played when the fellowship reunites in frodo's bedroom:ROTK,second dvd,1:34:36-1:34:43.Thanks again.>>>

The only specific nod in the score is Shore’s Wagner reference in the ROTK credits. Anything past that is simply a matter of coincidence.

>>>So, has it been decided yet how to deal with those "entirely different compositions"? You don't have to tell us what they are planning to do, just say YES or NO>>>

It has been decided that you’ll hear them eventually. So, “YES.”

>>>And since you brushed on the topic "Star Wars", let me ask you a simple question:
which trilogy do you think is more complex, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? I think this is a battle that will go on as long as good vs. evil exists.>>>

You know, I don’t know that that is a judgment I can make – not for any sort of bureaucratic reasons, but for artistic ones. Complexity is a pretty subjective thing. Is Pollock more complex or is Picasso? It’s hard to say because they were after such different aesthetics. I can happily say that I find both trilogies to be quite complex in their own ways. Mr. Shore is a fan of Williams’ Star Wars writing, and Mr. Williams applauded enthusiastically when Shore won his first Oscar. Seems like a nice amicable situation to me!

>>>And since you're already reading this post, if you had to pick one score of each trilogy as your favourite, which ones would you chose?>>>

In Star Wars, I’d have to say Empire is still my favorite, but that was the first score I ever heard on record, so maybe I’m biased. In LOTR – that’s really hard to say. I tend to feel that whatever I’m currently listening to is the best, which is a good sign! When I was working on FOTR I always felt, “Boy you know, this is really the strongest one, isn’t it?” When I started working on TTT I started to think, “Wow so much more breadth and verticality. This has got to be the finest of the lot!” Guess what I’ll think when I start ROTK…

>>>I reserve judgment on the Lord of the Rings scores until I hear all of the Complete Recordings. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but ever since I got the CR of Fellowship, my estimation of that score as a purely musical work has increased immeasurably - and watching the film was a completely different experience after hearing the score in complete form.>>>

You’re about to experience that again very soon! I promise you.

>>>Anyway, to quote Doug Adams:

Don't panic!

That's easy to say when you've got access to the whole thing in every stage of its production>>>

Well, to be fair, I think he’s quoting the other Doug Adams! You know, the real one.

>>>By the way, Doug is constantly talking about ROTK's new hobbit material, has anyone noticed this new material?
I'm afraid I'm a little thick here. I've never looked at Bilbo's Song as a pure hobbit piece ... ?>>>

There are several new developments of the Shire material in this score, and I’m not simply referring to some of the recaps at the end. New Shire material is doled out in interesting ways, as you’ll see in TTT. These films are essentially told from a hobbit-centric point of view, and so the Shire material is constantly treated to new guises, accumulating like the hobbits’ experiences. It’s not so much that there are brand new themes, it’s that the existing material moves into new molds.

As for the Bilbo piece… it’s mature hobbit music. It still features the boys. It still begins with the 1-2-3 stepwise motion. But there’s a new weighty quality to its development.

>>>And I thought the press release would include pics...>>>

The FOTR press release did not include pics, so I suspect this one will not either. I guess it could, but it would be news to me.

>>>Okay, I'm tired of "deep breaths before plunges"...there's just been too much of silence. The weeks are going by and they seem like years and I feel like I'm aging without anything to sustain me. I need something, maybe news about The Hobbit, or about 10th anniversary LOTR release with deleted scenes "back where they belong" or maybe news about TTT:CR??>>>

Oh dear! Well, as they say, man does not live by bread alone! Even I need to climb out of Middle-earth now and then and take a walk, go out for a movie, hang out with friends and loved ones, etc. Remember, Tolkien was very big on the ideas and themes in LOTR being applied in real life as well!

>>>Also, in the FOTR annotated score, could someone please explain the Unused Concept on page 12? Doug says that Mr.Shore had written and recorded music for the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene." Huh?? Doug?>>>

Well, in the film’s Theatrical Cut the gift giving scene was cut down to the point that it was nothing more than the Fellowship departing in boats. But the fact remains that this was the gift giving scene, despite the fact that we’ll have to assume the actual gift giving happened off screen. (Remember, Frodo somehow has that phial in ROTK.) Referring to the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene” is a way to say this a bit more concisely.

>>>At the begining of the TTT:EE scoring documentary, you see (and hear) a clip from the FOTR scoring sessions showing the scene where Merry and Pippin create a diversion at Parth Galen so Frodo can escape.

In the film, we get just a hint of the Reclamation of Nature theme in that scene, but here it gets a lengthier statement, with a brass ending that I almost thought must have come from the Rohirrim at Pelennor...

Is there a story here? (perhaps they wanted to save the development of the theme for later?)

And is this piece a possible candidate for release as a rarity?>>>

Both the music and the story are indeed candidates! (Yes, there was some discussion on this recently!)

-Doug

I'm am excited and touched that full consideration is being given to the multimedia aspect. Touched, not because I think it was in response to my request... but that Howard and you both seem to really understand just how interested we are in this and be willing to not merely entertain us, but to educate us as well. Whew... that's a refreshing approach in these times.

And, I have to say, I just got the 'Don't Panic' joke. Before you pointed it out... but only just. My son is a huge Douglas Adams fan and it took him awhile to get used to your name coming up in conversation.

HAHA, that reminds me: a few days ago I was browsing through the forum here on MovieMusic.com and I cam across a thread titled "Douglas Adams is no longer with us". I was like "Oh no! How'd that happen?" (Thinking it was Doug, of course) Whew! Good thing it wasn't!

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:

>>>Okay, I'm tired of "deep breaths before plunges"...there's just been too much of silence. The weeks are going by and they seem like years and I feel like I'm aging without anything to sustain me. I need something, maybe news about The Hobbit, or about 10th anniversary LOTR release with deleted scenes "back where they belong" or maybe news about TTT:CR??>>>

Oh dear! Well, as they say, man does not live by bread alone! Even I need to climb out of Middle-earth now and then and take a walk, go out for a movie, hang out with friends and loved ones, etc. Remember, Tolkien was very big on the ideas and themes in LOTR being applied in real life as well!

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True Doug, thanks for the words, but firstly, you'd wanna climb outta Middle earth if you were in it to begin with

And secondly, you know what? I just got 2 of my 3 wishes come true. Thanks to Doug for TTT:CR news. And to know which of my other wish is come true (even if its a rumour) check out www.theonering.net

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:

>>>Also, in the FOTR annotated score, could someone please explain the Unused Concept on page 12? Doug says that Mr.Shore had written and recorded music for the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene." Huh?? Doug?>>>

Well, in the film’s Theatrical Cut the gift giving scene was cut down to the point that it was nothing more than the Fellowship departing in boats. But the fact remains that this was the gift giving scene, despite the fact that we’ll have to assume the actual gift giving happened off screen. (Remember, Frodo somehow has that phial in ROTK.) Referring to the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene” is a way to say this a bit more concisely.

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Okay. I'm gonna change that "Huh?? Doug?" to "DUH...Earl!"

July 2007 as release date is obviously a hoax...

P.S.:Is there a piano featured in any form(except at the isengard theme)on the LOTR music?

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but production beginning in 2007 seems like a good enough rumour

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Yes! This is starting to look interesting...

December 2008: The Hobbit comes to theatres

August 2009: The Hobbit comes to DVD

November 2009: The Hobbit Extended Edition is released

October 2010: The Hobbit Complete Recordings is released.

I can dream can't I...

Alright back to reality...Two Towers is on its way...in 52/59 days!
Thats 1,248/1,416 hours. Jeez, thats 74,880/84,960 minutes. My god that means we got 4,492,800/5,097,600 seconds!

Or you can look at it this way:

We have about 1.68/1.91 months to go. There thats a little better...

I have to admit that I didn't read every post (and tell me if you already answered my question) but:
Will there be a new "Anotated Score" text with this kind of "track by track description" which you can download for the new TT:CR? I found the one for the FotR:CR by accident and liked it because I could read along while I was listening to the soundtrack.

Edit: please excuse my bad english!

quote:

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You know, I don’t know that that is a judgment I can make – not for any sort of bureaucratic reasons, but for artistic ones. Complexity is a pretty subjective thing. Is Pollock more complex or is Picasso? It’s hard to say because they were after such different aesthetics. I can happily say that I find both trilogies to be quite complex in their own ways. Mr. Shore is a fan of Williams’ Star Wars writing, and Mr. Williams applauded enthusiastically when Shore won his first Oscar. Seems like a nice amicable situation to me!

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Oh dear. I didn't want to say that a war is raging between Star Wars and LotR and that eventually a winner must be declared.
It just strikes me that for whatever odd reason, fans of both trilogies (although I have to admit that Star Wars fans are a little worse in this regard) tend to be a little sensitive when someone mentions the other big trilogy. Also, when they discuss their beloved work, they somehow feel the urge to include it and compare the two.

And I also feel that answers like "both have their merits" or "they're both complex in a different way" don't really get to the point. When someone asks "which one do you like better?" why does everyone immeditately think he has to compare the two? And since comparing these two (six) is indeed pointless, they inevitably come to the results mentioned above.
But I'm just asking which one you like better. Everybody has preferences in musical style, musical structure and so on and so forth; you know, the things that make you say "I like this one, but that one I wouldn't touch".
It's a gut feeling, nothing more! No one gets hurt

MY feeling tells me that I like LotR better. I don't know exactly why, but I think it's because in my opinion, there's nothing in Howard Shore's LotR that feels redundant or like background music.
Whereas in Star Wars, I sometimes feel there's often music just to fill the space around the thematic bits. Of course there are wonderful standalone pieces, like the Asteroid Field or Battle In The Snow, but IMO they never quite raise to the level of a standalone piece like Shelob's Lair, for instance.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
We have about 1.68/1.91 months to go. There thats a little better...

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I was always under the impression that quite a few LOTR fans were also SW fans. I am! Personally I love LOTR the best. None of it is background music to me. I usually have to sit down and concentrate when I'm listening to the LOTR film scores where as with the Star Wars scores I can put them on and happily work around the house while parts of the SW scores serve as background music.

I think that I feel that way because the LOTR scores seem a little more complex and thematic. There does seem to be parts in the SW scores that stand in a filler, perhaps I should say it is more cinematic? Uses less themes than LOTR? I'll stop while I'm ahead. Having said that I enjoy both immensely!

>But to pick up the discussion about thematic material: did anyone else notice that there might be some connection between Denethor and some thematic bits from FOTR?<

In FOTR:CR, track 8 (A Conspiracy Unmasked) from 4:49 - 5:00 (very strongly) and continuing uptil 5:30, which in the movie is Gandalf telling Frodo "You must leave. And leave quickly" there's this "theme" that plays along; which is repeated again in ROTK, when Gandalf tells Pippin "Peregrin Took, my lad, there is a task to be done. Another opportunity for one of the Shire-folk to prove their great worth!"

Is there a connexion here? At both places Gandalf is playing his role of moving the Hobbits to do great deeds...in the movie at any rate.

Thanks again for the information Doug. Can't wait for the release. I'm really excited about the book too...

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:

I just had a conversation with Mr. Shore late last week regarding multimedia content with the book, and he had some *really* exciting ideas. Even with my grand plans, I was left asking, 'Really, we can do that!?' Nothing's solid yet, but that's the next big thing to tackle, and it's looking to be amazing!

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Maybe we could come up with a wish list? All we can do is suggest ideas and hope that they might be added to Mr. Adams' and Mr. Shore's discussion list.

If the content was video-based, I would love to see really in-depth interviews with Mr. Shore on the various themes e.g. using a keyboard for quick reference.

For example, it would be cool to hear Mr. Shore discuss the basic structure of the fellowship theme and talk about slight variations that were tried and why the final version was the most satisfactory.

Also, it would be interesting to hear the role that the books played in his process as I remember one interview which stated that he always had a copy of the book close at hand. What sections of the books did he find particularly interesting or valuable in that respect?

I am also very interested in his process from the point of view of the freedom he was given to try ideas for different sequences. How did he plan out his work and divide time between experimentation on the one hand, and having to meet deadlines on the other? Was there every any point where the cgi imagery or editing of a scene suddenly sparked a new idea or direction different to that which had been developed in previous meetings with the production team.

Sorry for the long post and maybe these points will be covered in the book but I just thought I'd add my two cents at the time when new ideas were being discussed.

All the best,
ruckus

In addition to Mr.Shore documentaries, I'd really appreciate there being a documentary centered around Doug - you know, listening to OSTs, watching the movies (for inspiration?? ), discussing a lot of stuff with Mr.Shore, showing us the intermediate drafts of liner notes/annotated scores/book, listening to the CRs (hmmm...) and just basically how Doug did his chunk of putting music into simple words for the common LOTR fan like me. And don't leave out that poor messy room of yours Doug...hehehh.

But jokes aside, that'd be a great documentary to have.

At least the CR will be out in 1.5 to 2 months...

quote:

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Originally posted by Magpie:
And, I have to say, I just got the 'Don't Panic' joke. Before you pointed it out... but only just. My son is a huge Douglas Adams fan and it took him awhile to get used to your name coming up in conversation.

[Message edited by Magpie on 08-31-2006]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Beren:
Well,i saw today on HBO "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy".(to say smth related to your reply).

P.S.:How long is the deep breath?

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At least the CR will be out in 1.5 to 2 months... >>

Well, that tomorrow hath come and beith gone! "Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day to day..."

I think, O fellow maniacs of M-E, we must now confront the ugly reality: There never really was a Peter Jackson LotR film, there never really was a glorious and gorgeous H Shore score, there never really was a CR of the FotR... we are all in mass delusion and are about to wake up from our dreams of green shores under a swift sunrise...

Seriously though, I think we had better steel ourselves to the probability that if the (by now anticlimactic) "press release" of rumor has been this delayed, the release date of the CR of TTT will also most likely not be possible by Oct 24 and will appear later, perhaps MUCH later!! If it has "been delayed" methinks a foul balrog has seized it and we can only hope it will yet emerge at all!!! snif, snif... waaaah!

PS: Of course, if my past luck is any indication: now that I have said that, the blasted press release will suddenly emerge in the next few hours.... (I hope!)