Edit: They're generally slow about listing items...

One question for Doug: You mentioned that you have been asked to keep the content of the liner notes to a certain amount; does this mean that the liner notes will be different from the text in your book? From the press release it seems that the liner notes are taken directly from the book:

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extensive liner notes culled from "The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films," to be published in 2006

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Wow, first, I hope no one here feels the need to apologize for his/her enthusiasm! I promise you, I share your eagerness and am more than happy to shed a little light where I am allowed. Actually, I should thank you for resisting the urge to assemble a pitchfork and torch brigade and storm my house for the number of times I’ve told you, “Hold on, I’ll tell you more later!” You guys are great, and should I ever pass through your towns, I owe each of you the soft/hard drink of your choice.

Anyway, let me take a swing at some of these:

>>>It would be interesting to know if the music on the DVD will be presented in a special way; you know, with music videos or something like that.
I have to tell you that this move was kind of surprising for me. I always thought there would be some kind of featurette on that DVD.

And when the 9 disc set rumor was still floating around, I thought that maybe the LOTR Symphony would be on it.>>>

Well, keep in mind that there are two more packages yet to be released, so you still have any number of goodies coming your way.

>>>Now that you brought up Star Wars, is there any special presentation of the music? Howard Shore said that for TTT and ROTK instead of writing cues, he wrote much larger pieces between 10 and 15 minutes. Will they be presented as such or are they broken down into smaller cues?>>>

Music in TTT and ROTK was written in longer blocks because each individual piece would include the tempo changes and sometimes silence that chopped up the FOTR compositions. In other words, if Shore wrote 7 minutes of music for FOTR he would likely title it as 3 (or so) separate pieces that would be recorded separately then edited together in the mixing. For ROTK he decided to leave the entire composition under one title, but would still record sections separately and edit them back together. (This is a common recording practice and is also used for a lot of concert works.) So basically, the only major difference was in how Shore conceptualized his writing process.

All this said, the tracks on the FOTR set are representative of the musical breaks. Tracks end where silence occurs, which means they’re mostly on the lengthier side. I won’t tell you the exact breakdown, but it looks like there will be over 30 tracks split between the three discs. Personally, I think it’s great. This is not a sound-bite type of score. The beauty of the composition is in its shape and flow.

Besides, as someone who spends a lot of time with his trusty iPod, I can tell you I’m thrilled to not have tiny hiccups in the sounds every 45 seconds as it switches tracks!

As for the DVD questions, I’m afraid I can’t be too helpful with that one. I’d heard Dolby Digital 5.1 at 24-bits, but honestly, I’m not positive that’s right.

>>>And by that, I mean neither The Prophecy, nor the film version, but the one that you can already fragmentarily hear during the PreViz of the prologue on the FOTR EE.

It has an extended version of that string motiv, which plays when Elendil falls, and alternate versions of the Ringwraiths theme and the History of the Ring theme.>>>

I just answered an email about this, as a matter of fact. The music you hear here is not an alternate version of the Prologue. The previz sequence on the DVD has been scored with music edited together from all around the film. Yes, you may indeed hear music that you don’t yet recognize, but it’s not from an unused Prologue. This music will be included on the boxed set, fear not, but in its proper place. What that place is, I can’t say just yet. (Yup, here we go again! :) )

>>>Given what the LOTR scores sound like in the films, I would think that the tracks would be the lengths of cues, which wouldn't be so bad.>>>

This is pretty much dead on. And don’t worry, it’s quite easy to navigate to favorite moments. Heck, I’ve been doing it while typing just to answer a few of these questions.

>>>Doug, any idea when we can see pictures of this release, packaging, disc art, etc? Track listings? Streaming samples? Is it a good chance that soundtrack.net will have a first listen like they did with the OSTs? Only 8 weeks to go!>>>

The Warners Art Department has been working overtime the past two weeks to get the packaging nailed down. Everything is near to its final form now, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you started to see promo shots in the near future. It’s funny, I never realized how important this aspect was to people until I started getting email after email asking, “Will it be cardboard?” “Will it be a long box or a short box?” “What will the artwork look like?” But the great news is, this curiosity is going to be rewarded in spades – the packaging is classically Tolkien-esque. I don’t know when it will be revealed, or when (or if) you’ll start to hear clips, but I’d keep my browser hovering over www.lordoftherings-soundtrack.com if I were a betting man.

>>>Back in the days when it was said that a 9 disc set was in the works that there would be a disc containing unused or alternative tracks? I think Peter Jackson himself might have commented on this but don’t quote me on that.

I was wondering if this was still going ahead now that each score is to be released separately and if so, is the 3rd disc on this set possibly dedicated to unused/alternative tracks for FOTR. I was also thinking that this could also get round the issue of the music that was altered between TE and EE versions of the film.

While 3 discs for the complete scores for TTT and ROTK seem realistic, I can't quite imagine FOTR filling 3 whole discs. Anyway, was just a thought! :-)>>>

Fellowship does indeed fill all 3 discs. As I’ve hinted at above, you will hear a bit of unreleased music on this set, but most of what was written for the first film actually ended up in the film. In fact, most of the alternate versions of the compositions were released on the original soundtrack CD. (An added trumpet line here, and added horn solo there… nothing too severe.) The “rarities” will become more prominent in TTT and ROTK, but we’ll just have to wait and see how those are handled. I think it’s safe to guess that we can expect to see each successive release expand on the previous in terms of its scale.

>>>One question for Doug: You mentioned that you have been asked to keep the content of the liner notes to a certain amount; does this mean that the liner notes will be different from the text in your book? From the press release it seems that the liner notes are taken directly from the book:
extensive liner notes culled from "The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films," to be published in 2006>>>

Wedge’s explanation is right about this. This was this summer’s project for me – I basically had to take the full text of the book, divide it into thirds then whittle it down to a reasonable page count without losing any material. That’s not easy! I’m not embarrassed to admit that it took a few tries before it came out just right, but again this is why I can’t say enough kind words about Howard and his staff who offered me criticism and support in equal measure until we had everything nailed.

So yes, the liners are an adaptation of the book. Will the book still offer something that makes it a worthwhile standalone project? Yes, I think so. But on the other hand, I don’t think the notes are lacking anything either. As I’ve learned, a lot of this adaptation process involves the physical appearance of things – layouts, graphics, etc. I think we’ve found some tremendously creative ways to get all the material to you, but I’ll see what you think is a couple of months.

So there’s today’s update!

-Doug

ttbk

I'm not worried about the 3 discs for FOTR, I'm more worried about 3 discs for TTT or ROTK. I don't think 3 CDs have enough space for that.

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
Besides, as someone who spends a lot of time with his trusty iPod, I can tell you I’m thrilled to not have tiny hiccups in the sounds every 45 seconds as it switches tracks!

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At least The Phantom Menace UE had all original music on it.

The music for Lord of the Rings seems to be have been treated with more respect all round (mix, edits and the fact that they brought Shore back for the EE rather than just cut and paste existing music!).

No problem. I hope the future questions are more, “What’s next?” and less “Why didn’t you…” :)

>>>Doug, just curious, will you be at any of the upcoming performances of the Symphony?>>>

>>>I don't think Doug will tell you where he'll attend the symphony (if at all) ... Imagine: Doug is running away from dozens of fans while Howard Shore stands there alone, pen ready to sign autographs>>>

For some reason I doubt that would be a big issue! I’d love to get out for more of the Symphony concerts, and if invited will do so. I’ve been at a couple of them, and they’ve been wonderful. It’s as much fun to watch the performers as it is to watch the audience watching the performers. I love those smiles of recognition. I spoke most recently at a concert in Toronto last June, but as of right now, I haven’t been asked to any more in the immediate future. I think I’ll be speaking in NY in December and Pasadena in January, but not at Symphony events.

I keep hearing rumblings about upcoming press responsibilities tied to the box set, but I don’t know exactly what’s planned, if anything.

Hey, feel free to go ahead and petition your local box office!

>>>Maybe with this going on it'll force Lucasfilm to get some 'compeition' going on and release ANY FORM of the 2-disc set scores for AOTC and ROTS. Only hoping here...but hey it might be possible. Lol>>>

I think they should do a definitive 6-score boxed set… with a deluxe companion booklet. ;)

>>>This is great to hear as I am a fellow iPoder as well!!>>>

Right, Doug?

Right, Doug?

RIGHT, DOUG?!!!?

ttbk

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
I think if the release date was changed, Doug would certainly know, since he's part of the project, non?

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Well, not necessarily. Most of my work on this release is done, so they wouldn’t really have any need to inform me of a schedule change. I’m assuming it’s an Amazon thing because they press release went out so recently, but who knows.

We shall see!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=14750708&productCategoryId=cat02013&type=product&tab=1&id=1498618

Disc Two
1. Weathertop
2. Caverns Of Isengard, The
3. Give Up The Halfling
4. Orthanc
5. Rivendell
6. Sword That Was Broken, The
7. Council Assembles, The
8. Great Eye, The
9. Gilraen's Memorial
10. Pass Of Caradhras, The
11. Doors Of Durin, The
12. Moria
13. Gollum
14. Balin's Tomb

Disc Three
1. Khazad-dum
2. Caras Galadhon
3. Mirror Of Galadriel, The
4. Fighting Uruk-hai, The
5. Parth Galen
6. Departure Of Boromir, The
7. Road Goes Ever On..., The

[Message edited by Jim Ware on 10-09-2005]

Here's a direct quote from Doug on FSM:

quote:

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"The “alternate” cues for Fellowship are, for the most part, already out there in the form of the original 2001 soundtrack. If you listen carefully, you’ll find that several pieces on that disc differ slightly from what’s in the film. Of course, the Prologue is the most notable example, but there are little solo lines all around the CD that are not in the film."

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Edit: Looks like December 6th is the offical date. Oh well a couple extra weeks won't matter. No sense in crying about it...hehe.

[Message edited by BigT1981 on 10-08-2005]

Well, the track titles don't give ANY indication at all. But that's an interesting question; will the so called "alternate" versions that were already on the first release be included here? Or are those variations too small to warrant an own track?
I have to say, I'm pretty confused LOL

quote:

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Originally posted by BigT1981:
Doug said on FSM that most of the alternate have all ready been released on the OST for Fellowship Of The Ring.

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So, that box will include all the music from the EE, as it was written an recorded, not necessarily how it ended up sounding in the film? Right, Doug?>>>

Well, the EE music was recorded like this...

Let’s say an EE scene added 1:15 of new material right in the middle of a scene. (This is generally how the EE scenes were added, if you look. It’s very rare that it would be 0:15 here, 0:15 there.) Anyway, the scoring team would take the theatrical composition and figure out where in the music the added footage would occur. For example, in a 200 measure composition, that new 1:15 might occur between measure 50 and measure 51. So now you’ve got 25 new measures to write between 50 and 51. So Shore’s team would take the score and look at 50 and 51 in the original theatrical score. If they found that, say there’s a rhythmic brass figure that begins in measure 45 and ends in 51, then they would make the note that you can’t cut directly into the score at50, even if that’s really where the new footage begins. No matter how carefully and how expertly this cut would be made, the audience would still hear an unnatural clip in the music and a rather stilted performance. The team would note, ok, we can cut it at bar 44, as there’s just a sustained string chord here. That we can fade in to. So Shore would write a new composition, beginning on measure 44’s string chord. He would include the original brass line beginning in measure 45 and ending one measure after the old bar 50, then write 25 measures of new music to match the EE scene. But at the end of this 25, when he returns to the old measure 51, he’s left with the final three notes of a brass figure. It makes no musical sense to leave this on its own, so the EE piece may have to include a new version of the original measure 51, this time written to dovetail into a sustained woodwind chord in measure 52 (original).

So, essentially what you’ve ended up with as an EE composition is a 32 bar composition that works perfectly as a bridge inserted into the theatrical music, but is not a complete musical statement on it own. As you can see, obviously you don’t want to include this insert on its own, as recorded.

Likewise, it doesn’t really make sense to include the 200 bar theatrical composition AND the 225 bar EE composition, because 200 bars of that EE composition would be a literal repeat of the theatrical piece – the exact same recording, in fact.

>>>What of the Theatrical version cues rescored for the EE? They are sort of alternates. Are they included in the set? I personally like the EE versions of the cues but for completeness' sake would like to see those cues in Box. The track titles of course give no such indication.

And it is so long time since I watched the Theatrical version that I do not remeber exactly how different the cues are. But any case I am anxiously waiting of the release.>>>

There’s only one scene in Fellowship where an entire sequence was rescored when the film went from theatrical to EE: the Leaving Lothlórien sequence. When the Gift Giving footage was added, the scene was so significantly altered that Shore wrote an entirely new composition. But, again, here’s an instance where the entire theatrical piece was already available on the 2001 soundtrack, so no one’s missing out.

When I’m talking about alternate versions of pieces being on the 2001 CD, with the exception of the Prologue, I’m talking about very small differences. For example, the build up to the Argonath contains a rising trumpet figure (quoting the Fellowship theme) on the OST that’s not in the film. On the Complete Recordings box set the Argonath music is embedded in an eleven-and-a-half minute track on disc three. So, do you include the entire track again at the end, after the end credits, just to highlight a 10 second trumpet line that’s been in wide release for four years? I know it’s neat from the, “Hey, here’s EVERYTHING we recorded,” completeist angle, but it’s get pretty abusive to the audience. (Plus, does anyone really want to be on the marketing team that has to advertise, “Includes amazing behind the scenes bonus material… that you already paid for and have owned for nearly half a decade!” :) )

Ultimately, this CD set has been designed to musically tell the story of The Fellowship of the Ring, not simply archive the creative process. Now don’t worry, there’s plenty of “Making Of” material in the liner notes, and more to come in the future! But the idea here is that you can put these discs on and here a musical telling of this tale.

>>>Doug said on FSM that most of the alternate have all ready been released on the OST for Fellowship Of The Ring.

*****

He says that most of the alternates have been released. The most important cue for me is so far unreleased - the theatrical version of Journey to Weathertop.>>>

Well, again when I’m talking about “alternates,” I’m talking about the versions of pieces that are not heard in the films. Like that Argonath trumpet solo. It was never in any version of the film. There’s a French horn line that plays in the Old Forest. That was never in the film either, but it was on the 2001 OST. And, of course, as always the OST Prologue is the biggie – that was significantly different in the film. This boxed set will feature the film versions. I don’t want people to think, “Ah well, no alternates, I’ve heard all this already!” Beside the fact that most of the music on the set has never been heard on disc before, there are a couple of unused passages that you’ll now be hearing here for the first time ever.

As I’ve said, because of the filmmaking process, the scores for The Two Towers and The Return of the King contain more actual alternates than Fellowship. I don’t know how everything will be presented yet, but I’ve heard some great ideas floated around.

And as for the release date confusion… hey, you’ve got me on this one! I’m still turning in some materials tied to this release, and haven’t heard anything about my timeline changing, it’s probably unlikely that I’d get a phone call saying, “Hey, we just pushed the date by two weeks, so go ahead relax, take your time!”

It is, however, not impossible that I’ll get a phone call saying, “Hey, we’re watching the Internet, could you please quit posting and get back to work, or we’re moving your personal deadline UP a month!”

So…

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It is, however, not impossible that I’ll get a phone call saying, “Hey, we’re watching the Internet, could you please quit posting and get back to work, or we’re moving your personal deadline UP a month!”

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