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Author	Topic: LOTR Package Update?

gkgyver Standard Userer	About the liner notes: are there a couple of lines from Howard Shore, too? It would be great to read his initial thoughts on the pieces. Concerning the release date, maybe they moved the date to December 6th because Shore's Kong will be released on the same day?
posted 10-10-2005 06:19 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	Perchance they moved the release date to the same date as King Kong but that does not lessen my frustration over the change. That is a cheap (if common) marketing ploy. I think(just guessing here) Adams will include Shore's comments of the music in the liners and if not, there is always the upcoming Book of his that will rectify that problem. [Message edited by Incanus on 10-10-2005] [Message edited by Incanus on 10-10-2005]
posted 10-10-2005 06:32 AM PT (US)

Doug Adams Standard Userer	>>>Thanks for clarifying the issues for us Doug. I agree with your points about the logics of leaving the Theatrical release versions out. No need to reprise the same material for a insignificant amount of different and already heard music. Gratias quam maximas tibi ago! BTW I am sincerely waiting your liners just as much as the music.>>> Wow, thanks! I promise I’ll do my very best to not disappoint! >>>About the liner notes: are there a couple of lines from Howard Shore, too? It would be great to read his initial thoughts on the pieces.>>> Oh most definitely! There are comments from a number of people incorporated. And many more to come in future installments. >>>Perchance they moved the release date to the same date as King Kong but that does not lessen my frustration over the change. That is a cheap (if common) marketing ploy.>>> I’d be surprised if this were the case. I know there was a concerted effort made to make sure that the release dates for FOTR, Kong and Sun were well spaced out, so as to not overdo things. If something has changed, I’m sure it was a byproduct of production time, etc., not an attempt to gouge people. Best, -Doug [Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-12-2005]
posted 10-10-2005 09:22 AM PT (US)

ridan Standard Userer	Wow, the track titles sound really uninspired...I thought they'd all be taken from the book, or at least sound like it. Council Assembles, The? It's "The Council of Elrond" in the book. Moria? "A Journey in the Dark" Khazad-dum "The Bridge of Khazad-Dum" Great Eye, The? Surely there's a better name...And this should go with "The Council of Elrond" - In the movie, there is only one continuous cue. Rivendell? "Many Meetings" It sounds to me like they were trying to not use the titles from the original release. I'm going to have to rename some of these...
posted 10-12-2005 04:31 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	I think those titles are terrific! And you know why? Because it emphasizes the operatic aspect of the score! "Moria", "Gollum", "The Shire" and so on, those aren't uninspired, they are very inspired; by opera. I would have been very upset had they tried to come up with "clever" or "witty" titles. Look ar Goblet Of Fire, that is uninspired! "Do The Hippogriff", "Harry Sees Dragons" ... come on! And of course they tried to avoid the original track titles because it's obvious that the content is different. Had they chosen "Concerning Hobbits" instead of "The Shire", that wouldn't be correct, would it? It's not only longer, it's a completely different context.
posted 10-12-2005 06:06 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Standard Userer	How is it inspired by opera?
posted 10-12-2005 06:15 PM PT (US)

ridan Standard Userer	Just because it's longer doesn't mean it's different. It has the music from the original album, PLUS the unreleased music. And how is the context different? It's the same cue, from the same part of the movie... And I never said they had to be "witty." I just wanted something more interesting than, for example, "Moria", for a twelve or more minute sequence. And yes, the GOF tracktitles are terribly uninspired. The LOTR ones are just not inspired. [Message edited by ridan on 10-13-2005]
posted 10-13-2005 09:29 AM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	Actually, much of the music will be different from what appears on the current CD. Many different takes were used on that disc than were used in the film.
posted 10-13-2005 10:59 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	We are somewhat an ungrateful lot. We finally get the complete release of one of the greatest score in 10 years and all we LOTR fans can do is complain about such a thing as track titles being uninspired. That should be an insignificant footnote in the footnote of complaints. The cues are named after the larger sequences and I am certain Doug's liner notes make up for them in substance. I know they are not super inspired but they are adequate. Why complain for no good reason. We should feel deep gratitude.
posted 10-13-2005 11:01 AM PT (US)

dcopperfield Standard Userer	Most of these track titles are from Howard Shore himself from his cue sheets. ("The Great Eye" for example) I have no complaints, but wow.. they really are bundling alot of cues together in each track. I understand it is for listening purposes, but if I was making this set I probaby would have divided them up a bit more. To make my point, look at the track listing below. It shows the titles for the cues as they would have been more or less recorded at the sessions (before any editing). That's ALOT..lol (I will post cues for the 1st half of the film, if anyone is interested) THEATRICAL CUES 1 Bilbo's Gifts 2 The Departure of the Fellowship 3 The Ring Goes South 4 Hobbit Duel 5 Crebain Spies 6 To Caradhras 7 A Strange Fate 8 Into the Caverns 9 The Pass of Caradhras 10 The Ring-Bearer 11 The Walls of Moria 12 The Doors of Durin 13 Speak Friend and Enter 14 Into the Mines 15 The Watcher 16 A Journey in the Dark 17 Gollum 18 Fate of Many 19 Dwarrowdelf 20 Balin's Tomb 21 Orc Attack 22 The Cave Troll 23 Mithril! 24 The Second Hall 25 The Bridge of Khazad-Dum 26 The Balrog 27 Gandalf's Demise 28 Elegy for Gandalf 29 Lothlorien 30 The Realm of Galahdrim 31 Caras Galadhon 32 Fallen into Shadow 33 Gandalf's Lament 34 The Glory of Gondor 35 The Mirror of Galadriel 36 The Prophecy 37 The Test 38 The Fighting Uruk-hai 39 Farewell to Lórien 40 The River Anduin 41 Saruman's Army 42 Kings of Old 43 Where's Frodo? 44 Boromir's Betrayal 45 The Breaking of the Fellowship 46 The Battle of Amon Hen 47 Frodo's Escape 48 The Battle Rages 49 Horn of Gondor 50 Boromir's Last Stand 51 Lurtz 52 The Departure of Boromir 53 The Road Goes Ever On… 54 May it Be () 55 The Cornfield () 56 In Dreams () 57 Goodbye Rivendell () 58 The Fellowship () () Credits EXPANDED VERSION CUES [Pickups, Inserts, Extensions] 1 Gilraen's Memorial {completely new cue} 2 Bilbo's Gifts {alt. w. extension} 3 The Departure of the Fellowship {expanded version} 4 The Ring Goes South ALT {alt version, no extension) 5 Hobbit Duel {alt. w. extension} 6 Evil Outside & Within {completely new cue} 7 The Walls of Moria {expanded version} 8 The Doors of Durin {alt. w. extension} 9 A Journey in the Dark {ext. insert} 10 Gollum {ext. insert} 11 Lothlorien {alt. take} 12 The Realm of Galahdrim {alt w. extension + new cue} 13 Caras Galadhon {alt. w. extensions} 14 Fallen into Shadow {extended version} 15 Gandalf's Lament (drone overdub) 16 Gandalf's Lament {additional choral music} 17 Elvish Provisions {completely new cue} 18 Celeborn's Warning {completely new cue} 19 The Gift Giving {completely new cue} 20 Farewell to Lórien {extended version} 21 The Night Camp {completely new cue} 22 Kings of Old (overdub) 23 The Battle Rages {alt. w. extension} 24 Horn of Gondor {ext. alt. w. choral dubs} 25 Lurtz {ext. insert} [Message edited by dcopperfield on 10-13-2005]
posted 10-13-2005 02:04 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Good gracious! Rename those and you'll end up with the Shore version of Episode I Ultimate Edition! And of course the tracks are new and must therefor be renamed! The previously released CD tracks are embedded in tracks that are at least twice as long. And not only that, they will also be split up or even altered. Consequently, to name a cue "A Journey In The Dark" again would be wrong, since it's simply not the same piece! I don't know why I think they are opera- inspired, but the titles remind me of movements. They express more dignity than other soundtracks' titles.
posted 10-13-2005 02:41 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	By the way, I got an e- mail today by Amazon that says my order will delay. Quote: "Updated Shipping Estimate: December 13, 2005" Great ... And one thing that would be interesting to know is if the individual cues on the TTT/ ROTK Soundtrack will follow the cut of the movie or the storylines of the characters.
posted 10-13-2005 08:12 PM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: By the way, I got an e- mail today by Amazon that says my order will delay. Quote: "Updated Shipping Estimate: December 13, 2005" Great ... And one thing that would be interesting to know is if the individual cues on the TTT/ ROTK Soundtrack will follow the cut of the movie or the storylines of the characters. Bummer . It's always irritating when order will be late (especially this release ) I live in Finland and FOTR Box is released here some time in December(no record store has the faintest clue of the date or the release). Our Scandinavian online CD store CDON has marked the FOTR release date as 14th of December. If I would order it from CDON it would be here 3 to 5 days later. I think I will wait for the release of it Finland because it might be here earlier than by ordering online. So look on the bright side. You will still probably get it before us here in Scandinavia The shorter track titles encompassing smaller cues as larger segments does not bother me the least. As someone said the track titles remind of operas as they rather describe movements. Shore himself has said (and Doug confirmed) that FOTR flows in bigger pieces and the track titles reflect that. Can you imagine how long would the track titles be if every cue was named. The Special edition SW scores had the cue titles for all the cues and they are IMO too long. They are accurate but too long. Shore has obviously tried an artistic approach in naming larger segments under one title. Again a matter of taste is who will like this nad who will not but it is not a big problem. I bet all here know their FOTR cues by heart or can easily find them in the net anyway. For completess' sake the complete cue names would have been nice but I like what Shore has come up with. Atleast there are no over long Robin Hood Prince of Thieves-like track titles e.g. Overture and a Prisoner of the Crusades (From Chains to Freedom). Could a track title get much longer than that?
posted 10-14-2005 01:20 AM PT (US)

ridan Standard Userer	I'm not complaining about how short they are. The SW CDs are ridiculous. I just wanted something a little mor involved than "The Shire." I made a complete cue list from the EE, and I didn't have unwieldy names for them, but I tried to use lines from the book as often as I can, because they fit the feel of the music better. And this IS just a minor complaint. The release itslef is so good that there's really nothing to say than "Excellent...When is it coming out?" [Message edited by ridan on 10-14-2005]
posted 10-14-2005 12:52 PM PT (US)

Doug Adams Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: By the way, I got an e- mail today by Amazon that says my order will delay. Quote: "Updated Shipping Estimate: December 13, 2005" http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.asp?threadID=29995&forumID=1 Will comment more later. -Doug
posted 10-14-2005 03:12 PM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by ridan: I'm not complaining about how short they are. The SW CDs are ridiculous. I just wanted something a little mor involved than "The Shire." I made a complete cue list from the EE, and I didn't have unwieldy names for them, but I tried to use lines from the book as often as I can, because they fit the feel of the music better. And this IS just a minor complaint. The release itslef is so good that there's really nothing to say than "Excellent...When is it coming out?" [Message edited by ridan on 10-14-2005]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> More inspired track titles would have been a plus and part of the current titles are better than the others. Some are weak as they do not describe their content in proper manner such as The Fighting Uruk-hai. The cue covers all the material from Farewell to Lorien to the Argonath. There are Uruks to be sure in the scenes but it is not a good name for a segment that describes also the departure form Lorien and the Great River. Still that is a small matter. -Incanus, who is desperately waiting for the FOTR release- [Message edited by Incanus on 10-15-2005]
posted 10-14-2005 04:27 PM PT (US)

AustinHusker Standard Userer	Man, now I have to wait 3 more weeks for this to come out? Oh well, better late then never I guess... On a different note, I would love to hear a release of Howard Shore's King Kong rejected score so we can listen to it while playing the movie once it comes out on DVD! -Chad
posted 10-18-2005 02:03 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Who knows, maybe there will be an isolated score track? Concerning the track titles, I can only repeat what I've said before: I always prefer simple titles that somehow describe the content without being spoilerish or too context- oriented. Agreed, "The Fighting Uruk- Hai" is completely misleading, but since they can't use the more fitting "The Great River" or "Farewell To Lorien", there isn't much left.
posted 10-18-2005 02:55 PM PT (US)

Frank V Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: Who knows, maybe there will be an isolated score track? Do you really think so? I don't!
posted 10-19-2005 04:40 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	Has anyone actually asked from local record stores about the release date of the Box? I would like to know when it is due to be released in other countries. In Finland there has not been any word about the release even to our biggest record stores (they usually have to look it up from Amazon or CDON (Scandianavian online CD store). They report usually 13th or 14th of December as the release date.
posted 10-20-2005 05:07 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	I never ask at my local stores about ANY film scores that go beyond the usual blockbusters because then they give you that "you're a wierdo" look I'm fine with my amazon pre- order. I'm positive that we'll hear Shore's King Kong in the near future. In these days you don't have to wait ages for things like this.
posted 10-20-2005 09:03 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: I never ask at my local stores about ANY film scores that go beyond the usual blockbusters because then they give you that "you're a wierdo" look I'm fine with my amazon pre- order. I'm positive that we'll hear Shore's King Kong in the near future. In these days you don't have to wait ages for things like this. I have to ask local stores (and suffer the stares and the remarks like "I had no idea there was soundtrack like that released". Online CD stores take far too much time delivering the music(It takes a month to get an order from Amazon to Finland) and I do not want to wait for this release a second longer than I absolutely have to. Shore's King Kong should be released just for comparison to JNH's version. Though it will end up in the net I am sure
posted 10-20-2005 01:42 PM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	Here is the final version of the track list(Doug Adams confirmed) Disc One 1 Prologue: One Ring to Rule Them All 2 The Shire 3 Bag End 4 Very Old Friends 5 Flaming Red Hair 6 Farewell Dear Bilbo 7 Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe 8 A Conspiracy Unmasked 9 Three Is Company 10 The Passing of The Elves 11 Saruman the White 12 A Shortcut to Mushrooms 13 Strider 14 The Nazgûl Disc Two 1 Weathertop 2 The Caverns of Isengard 3 Give Up the Halfling 4 Orthanc 5. Rivendell 6 The Sword That Was Broken 7 The Council of Elrond Assembles Featuring “Aníron (Theme for Aragorn and Arwen)” Composed & performed by Enya 8 The Great Eye 9 Gilraen's Memorial 10 The Pass of Caradhras 11 The Doors of Durin 12 Moria 13 Gollum 14 Balin's Tomb Disc Three 1 Khazad-dûm 2 Caras Galadhon Featuring “Lament for Gandalf” performed by Elizabeth Fraser 3 The Mirror Of Galadriel 4 The Fighting Uruk-hai 5 Parth Galen 6 The Departure Of Boromir 7 The Road Goes Ever On… Pt. 1 8 May It Be Composed & performed by Enya 9 The Road Goes Ever On… Pt. 2 Featuring “In Dreams” performed by Edrward Ross Few minor changes as the splitting of the End Credits in to two parts with Enya's song and the actual Credits written by Shore. The "The Fighting Uruk-hai" unfortunately is still there in the track titles but I guess they did not have a choice when the good names like Farewell to Lorien and Great River were already used on the original album and on the bonus track of TTT [Message edited by Incanus on 10-22-2005] [Message edited by Incanus on 10-22-2005]
posted 10-22-2005 01:23 AM PT (US)

Foobsie Standard Userer	Does anyone know if the End Credits are the original theater length or the extended DVD length credits? I see no time marks... FoobsZ [this has to be the longest thread on the board ever]
posted 10-22-2005 06:18 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Yeah, time marks would be nice, too. Then you can compare it to the DVD and see how much unreleased material there'll be By the way, Doug, you told me that the music used in the pre- visualisation of the prologue didn't belong to yet another alternate prologue, but to several unused sections in the film. Where will these alternate versions be included, if all this track list represents is material which was actually used in the film?
posted 10-22-2005 08:25 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: Yeah, time marks would be nice, too. Then you can compare it to the DVD and see how much unreleased material there'll be By the way, Doug, you told me that the music used in the pre- visualisation of the prologue didn't belong to yet another alternate prologue, but to several unused sections in the film. Where will these alternate versions be included, if all this track list represents is material which was actually used in the film? You did understand that the text after the track list I send was my own not Doug's. I seem to remember that Doug said much of the alternates had been released on the original soundtrack album. I guess the unused music will be on the tracks in places where they belong in the narrative(atleast that is where I would place them). It's both logical and practical. I still would like to know how clearly the tracks are marked in terms of which track contains unused music, what cue has been extended and what cue is released for the first time.
posted 10-22-2005 09:08 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Foobsie: Does anyone know if the End Credits are the original theater length or the extended DVD length credits? I see no time marks... FoobsZ [this has to be the longest thread on the board ever] I have no idea about the length of or the version of the credits they are going to include in the Box but the FOTR EE Credits do not contain much new material(though I do not have Theatrical version to compare to). The Fan Credits contain alternate takes of the cues that aren't really that different and they have been rather clumsily edited together. Only piece worthy of release is the final piece of the Credits, the Breaking of the Fellowship alternate, which truly is wondeful.
posted 10-22-2005 09:57 AM PT (US)

Jwlahn Non-Standard Userer	In case people missed this, the box art is up on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000BNI90O/qid=1131079109/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1433353-1730431?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
posted 11-03-2005 09:39 PM PT (US)

AustinHusker Standard Userer	FYI, this is now up at Barnes & Noble's site as well. Sweet, now I can use my in-store credit to get this! Shipping is free since it is over $25. If you are a B&N member the price is $48.58, not too bad. http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=X71rSSOC8h&EAN=93624945420&ITM=1 -Chad
posted 11-04-2005 08:06 AM PT (US)

AustinHusker Standard Userer	Hey all, if you click on the link for Barnes & Noble I posted above, it is the first picture that I have seen of the INSIDE of the box!!! Click on the image for an even better picture!! Holy Crap!!! Doug, just looking at this picture confirms what you have been saying for the past year or so about the quality of this release. This box set has been "spared at no expense!" When you say "legacy" you sure weren't kidding around! Why could this not have come out on Nov. 22nd? Just 33 days to go!!!! -Chad [Message edited by AustinHusker on 11-09-2005] [Message edited by AustinHusker on 11-09-2005]
posted 11-09-2005 07:28 AM PT (US)

Crono/Kyp Standard Userer	No kidding! Looks HOT! Lucky for me, some really cool person ordered me this off my Amazon Wish List --Brian
posted 11-09-2005 08:56 AM PT (US)

SirWillibald Non-Standard Userer	Hi everybody, I've been following this thread for a very long time (THX to Doug for all the great info!), but now I can't wait any longer, I have to ask. I've seen those pics... Does anybody know about any plans for international versions of this fantastic release? Especially, will there be a german version? Or isn't it worth waiting? Can't find anything on the web... I've got no real problem with the english one, but if a german edition is to come, I will wait even longer... Any hints?
posted 11-09-2005 10:57 AM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	What exactly do you mean with a "German" version? German translations for the accompanying booklet? Sorry, but I don't see this happening at all. I live in Germany, but I'm not sure if I actually want something like that; if you speak English, nothing beats the original. I've yet to read a German translation that totally matches the untouched version. BTW, wicked pictures!
posted 11-09-2005 06:33 PM PT (US)

tjguitar Standard Userer	I'm kind of weary of buying this. Isn't it too much? I don't want to listen to the entire film. Then again it is LOTR. I was listening to the 2 disc Armageddon the other day...and its just too much. I can't sit and listen to something for that long, I might as well watch the movie. Am I weird for having such an opinion? lol. That being said, there are loads of cues on that complete bootleg that I wish were on the official disc, most notably some of the long action cues by Harry Gregson-Williams. LOTR is a much better score than Armageddon, but its nearly twice the length.
posted 11-09-2005 08:22 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Standard Userer	The score may be twice as long as Armageddon, yet it also its each and every note has more quality than the whole Armageddon score altogether. quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: BTW, wicked pictures! Say no more. I was hoping for printed themes in Doug's book, but having them in the actual CD booklets is certainly a surprise.
posted 11-10-2005 11:36 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Marian Schedenig: *The score may be twice as long as Armageddon, yet it also its each and every note has more quality than the whole Armageddon* score altogether.** That's the truth.
posted 11-10-2005 12:35 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Who said that you have to listen to the whole thing in one sitting? lol I don't know anyone who sits through Wagner's entire "Götterdämmerung" or "Siegfried", so why should that be a weird opinion?
posted 11-11-2005 05:43 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: I don't know anyone who sits through Wagner's entire "Götterdämmerung" or "Siegfried", so why should that be a weird opinion? I've seen both twice at the opera, and I know others who have done so. Correction: The first time, I stood through the entire Götterdämmerung, as there were no seats left. Though I admit I don't really feel the need to do that again.
posted 11-11-2005 04:51 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	I plan to sit through the whole thing in one sitting as soon I get it. As far as it being "too much," that really depends on your taste. I am familiar with most of the music that will be on this set, and I am looking forward to hearing it all. Othersmay not have the attention span for a release like this. Comparing Howard Shore's unique and endlessly fascinating Lord of the Rings to the generic sounds that Trevor Rabin and a bunch of Media Ventures slaves came up with for Armageddon is somewhat silly, though.
posted 11-14-2005 06:46 PM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	I dream of the day when I can finally listen to all the three complete scores back to back and bask in the light of the thematic and musical brilliance of the whole exstatic 11,5 hours of music (or how much music there actually is ). The 3 hours running time of the score is not a problem for me. I plan to listen to it on one sitting. Then I listen to it again and again and again. (And Yes,You are right to assume I love these scores VERY much ) And to compare LOTR scores to Armageddon is utterly pointless. LOTR wins with no questions asked. Of course there could be people who do not like LOTR music. I do not believe there are but there have been rumors about them though I suspect they are just that, rumor [Message edited by Incanus on 11-15-2005] [Message edited by Incanus on 11-15-2005]
posted 11-15-2005 04:44 AM PT (US)

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