Now there is 1 thing left for us to see before TTT: CR comes out...the PICTURES of the inside of the set!!!

I like the Lucas joke! Hah!

"EARL will have his prize! WE will deliver it!" "Why? Is it fun to play?" "It has something. A music file. EARL wants it for the.....war." (I hope ya still get it.)

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
It's on # 80 now on Barnes and Noble. Those numbers surely change quickly, don't they? Yesterday 300, today 80 ...

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And the price is back down to $47.86

quote:

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Now there is 1 thing left for us to see before TTT: CR comes out...the PICTURES of the inside of the set!!!

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I agree!!

Can anyone take the enlarged pic of the cover for TTT and put it side by side with FOTR? I have the cover on my desktop wallpaper but want to put them side by side and not sure how to do that. Thanks!

...kidding! But seriously. In The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring: The Complete Recordings, the focus of the box's cover is on The Shire and the west of Middle Earth.

Anyone noticed that on the box cover of The Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers: The Complete Recordings, the focus on the Map of Middle Earth has now moved to Rohan?

Wow! Really great intricacy in there Doug. This has aroused my interest much, much more. Now I can't wait to see the inside

Earl... I won a prize once (the cryptic crossword puzzle at TORN) and they didn't send it to me either. I hated to do it since it's seemed like I was bugging for a gift, but I did keep bugging them. It took me like 3 different emails but I did finally get it. BFME got a lot of publicity over this contest and by rights, they really should honor the prize. Bug them.

>>>Also a question for Doug:
Are there plans for a DVD release of the LOTR Symphony? And I mean the Complete Symphony and not the 1 hour presentation that was in the ROTK EE deluxe box.<<<

I think I might be able to save Doug having to reply again to this one. I too asked this during the first thread on FotR CR. The gist of his reply was that 1) the main purpose of the Symphony was to give us a chance to hear a LIVE orchestral performance (and Magpie might want to keep this in mind as she listens this weekend), 2) nothing will be forthcoming until after the CR's are all released and 3) even then, what's the point when we will have a far more complete edition of ALL the music not just another 2 hour set of hightlights a la the OST cd's...

That pretty well put my interest in the Symphony to rest (at least in its present form). The only real contribution of such a DVD would be to see Maestro Shore at the podium interpreting his magnum opus (and of course to see the unusual instrumentalists going through their paces)!

And whereas I don't think the music itself is necessary, I do think that a deep insight on the creation of the Symphony would be appropriate.
Unless this is well- covered in Doug's book, let me pitch this idea towards the producers of the CRs: what about a special featurette about exactly this process for the upcoming ROTK Complete Recordings?

Mine as well. Before the complete recordings of The Fellowship of the Ring I was mildly interested. But now that we will have access to a comprehensive recording of music for all three films I don't feel the symphony version necessary for my collection. Unless new music not on the OST or the complete recordings will be included in the symphonic version I just don't see a need for it. But that's just me.

Specifically, there has been some discussion of a certain Harry Potter soundtrack. As a fan of both John Williams and Howard Shore, I feel that I must clarify this...

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Personally, I don't know what some people listen to when they refer to LotR as "static". If by static you mean well- flowing, then I'm with you.
HS is more concerned about the musical coherence and the emotional development of a scene than sync points and overbearing counterpoints. And I think that's fantastic; it sounds incredibly fresh to me in a world where about anyone tries to do John Williams.
But that's not static, that's just writing coherent pieces. To me, static is something like "Harry In Winter" from Goblet Of Fire for instance.

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That's a pretty strange example to pick when mentioning John Williams; I assume you know that "Goblet of Fire" was done not by Williams but by Patrick Doyle.

In any case, I too disagree with the label of "static" for Lord of the Rings. To me it's a wonderful, varied, multi-layered and multi-level set of soundtracks.

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
I also came to the conclusion that a Symphony CD release wouldn't be really necessary. Though, didn't Howard Shore say that the symphony performance in Canada was recorded for a future release? I thought that's where the DVD material was drawn from.

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Indeed, the symphony was filmed here at Montreal the year before last (or, Light, was it three years ago.?); this was the performance I saw. It was subsequently broadcast on RDI (I think), the French CBC television network. It was done with the Festival Lights orchestra and choir (I think is the name). The orchestra had a few violin-solo problems, the signing solos were less than par (especially the boy soprano, in the redemption of nature theme, for example). Nonetheless, it was remarkable to hear the symphony. I read some where long ago that Herr Shore wanted to publish the Complete Recordings with this video recording. In fact, I had assumed that the DVD which came with the FOTR:CR was this performance. Perhaps Mr. Adams can clarify?

Cheers,

>>>> I read some where long ago that Herr Shore wanted to publish the Complete Recordings with this video recording. In fact, I had assumed that the DVD which came with the FOTR:CR was this performance. Perhaps Mr. Adams can clarify?<<<<

Timdalf

quote:

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That's a pretty strange example to pick when mentioning John Williams; I assume you know that "Goblet of Fire" was done not by Williams but by Patrick Doyle.

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Someone posted a comment about how drastically the sales rank changes from day to day; whoever it was: the sales rank at B & N, Amazon, etc. is a representation of the day-by-day sales of a product. So if one day sees 1,000 preorders and the next day only perhaps 500, the sales rank will change pretty drastically.

I like the CR duo image. Awesome!

Also what about a little question to cheers the things up!
Which three tracks, you’re waiting the most from the TTT CR to hear?

Digging right in:

>>>About new TTT themes: isn't there a motif for Wormtongue? I'm sure I hear one, which is primarily played on lower strings. You can hear it when Grima appears for the first time. Also in his scene with Eowyn at Theodred's bed, and also in ROTK when he shows up on Orthanc.>>>

There IS, in fact, a Wormtongue theme, though it doesn’t appear exactly where you’ve noted. You can find the line twice in TTT.

>>>While were talking about themes and motifs, did anyone notice that a very loud brass theme (horn like) plays the moment Saruman & Grima go out in the balcony and see the 10.000 uruks? And then again in ROTK EE when Saruman dies and fall, the same theme (or motif) is played. Before ROTK EE I thought that the music in the TTT balcony scene were just Horns sfx, but now I thing that is a motif…Doug? Or anyone else?!>>>

I’m assuming here that you’re mentioning the very, very low and brassy rendition of the Isengard theme? This is, by the way, another piece on the CD where you’ll get a a good bit more music.

>>>About the oliphaunts: a while ago, Doug said there was no definitive motif for either the Haradrim or the mumakil, but the orchestration makes a connection.>>>

Yes sir, this is true.

>>>Another question for Doug. Will you be including analysis of the old themes and how they evolve in the TTT into your liner notes or perhaps into the Annotated score? I remember you saying in some point that the liners of all the sets relate to each other in this manner making references to each other.>>>

The liners will discuss all themes present in The Two Towers, returning and debuting.

>>>It was better in the Star Wars episode I, ultimate edition 2 disk, because there were 30-40 tracks in EACH disk! So you could have immediate access to any point
I was disappointed with the combined tracks in FOTR CC
Who makes these decisions? And Who makes the OST decisions?>>>

>>>If I remember some of Doug's posts in the pre-FOTR-EE fervor, one key word was "iPod-friendly.">>>

Well, I did say it was “iPod-friendly” (though I suppose that’s not necessarily a problem since technology has advanced so quickly and newer iPods now feature gapless playback), but the album wasn’t assembled this way *because* it was iPod-friendly. The album was assembled to make musical sense… the iPod factor was a happy byproduct. The FOTR tracks are longer because the tracks contain unbroken musical ideas. 30 seconds of “Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe” really doesn’t give you any sense of what that composition really is. This piece is contains one, unbroken musical thought that evolves over nearly nine minutes, so the track reflects that. The CD’s construction enforces the kind of listening required to properly take in the writing. I wouldn’t want to listen to:

Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe – Part I – The Party Speech
Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe – Part II – Talking to Gandalf
Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe – Part III – Leaving Bag End
Etc., etc., though Part X

…because that just doesn’t make any musical sense. The tracks on this set were designed as an extension of Howard Shore’s musical thought (which makes sense, since HS was behind the tracks as well). Now on TTT, because of the nature of the film, which was edited to tell several stories simultaneously, musical thoughts were often much more compact and self-contained, so you’re seeing more and shorter tracks. The end of the final disc features music where Shore was able to play through and connect all the storylines, so the tracks start to become longer. It’s always all about story. The film editing is drawn from Tolkien’s story, the score is drawn from the editing, the CD is drawn from the score.

So, that’s the thought process, anyway.

>>>Eh. That's if you're basing complexity off of leitmotives. There's plenty of Western music that's more interesting harmonically than the LotR trilogy.>>>

Musical complexity is a terrifically difficult thing to pin down. To what does it really refer? Harmonic complexity? Rhythmic complexity? Architectural complexity? Performance complexity? A combination of all these elements? What if a piece contains only one or two of these qualities? Ever try to play a piece by Steve Reich? These works can be insanely difficult to play because of their architecture… and because of the demands they make of the performers’ prolonged concentration… but harmonically, they’re not very dense. Rhythmically, they’re not built of wild polyrhythms or rampant meter changes. How about some of Ibert’s work which takes simple little dance tunes, but sets them in two keys at once? Is that harmonically complex, or just simple in duplicate?

I’d wager that complexity is more of a gestalt thing… a big picture consideration, if you will. But even at that, it’s subjective. Do I think Shore’s LOTR score is complex? Yes, I do… but it’s a different sort of complexity that the New Complexity, or the Free Improv schools tout… though Shore’s worked in both those voices as well. The LOTR scores use the orchestra in a very, very specific way, tell a dramatic story with very unique mannerisms, and balance more leitmotifs present in a single work than has any dramatic piece for centuries. And it does all this, incredibly consistently, for nearly 12 hours straight.

>>>You're all forgetting one thing:HS was paid to compose the music for the films.He wouldn't have made it if PJ had been a kiwi salesperson(for example).And i don't think that Wagner and HS are representative to (all of)Europe's(even Western one) musical culture.>>>

Wagner was paid, too. Beethoven had patrons, as did Mozart. Bach had the church. Modern composers are more nomadic, wandering from post to post, commission to commission, but they’re all paid. Believe it or not, all artists have this nasty habit where they like to eat a couple of times a day. Many have families. Some even have kids to put through college. Unless you’re driving trucks through the night and composing all day—which is kind of unlikely, although, Ives directed an insurance agency and was a hobbyist composer in his spare time, so it does happen—you’re going to need to be paid regularly for your work.

>>>I've read some other posts about Lord of the Rings and I'm a little bit confused now. Some people talk about a book, written by Doug. Is there more info about this, is it already published? Could you answer this, Doug? I would be so great to read a book from you about the score for Lord of the Rings>>>

The book look like it will be on shelves *around* the time of the ROTK release next year. The book will likely be the grand finale to the whole Music of LOTR experience, so the publishers are now really beginning to discuss specifics.

The book, in the main, already exists, but it’s on the hard drive right now. I’d say we’re looking in the neighborhood of 160 pages at the moment, though as we all know, layout can radically change all that. Stay tuned, I’ll keep you in the loop.

>>>I wonder what the chances are that for some future rerelease of LOTR, PJ will use the score as HS recorded it, and dispense with all the tracking and alterations we've discussed here.>>>

My guess is that we’ll never see such a thing officially, only because the work involved versus the potential audience would peg this as a pretty futile exercise. On the other hand, I’d bet by bottom dollar that we will eventually see someone from the fan community try this.

>>>Hey Doug, just a question for you (if you can answer it, otherwise ignore the following). WIll your book have an antiquated look like the annotated score? Will it be a hardcover/deluxe book? Not that I'll be able to afford it even if it is, but it'll be good to know its on the market.>>>

We haven’t looked at anything related to the cover design yet, so no word right now. I’m anxious to see, myself!

>>>maby you have answered a question like this before but i am curious to know if you know anything about TTT being released in other countries, for example, Australia.>>>

That’s not my corner of the production, so I really don’t know. Sorry!

>>>I just discovered a new little motif from Two Towers and was wondering if it is indeed acknowldged as a motif by Mr. Shore. It plays over the part in Two Towers when Frodo, Sam, and Gollum discover the Haradrim and the Olyphants in the Forests of Ithilien, just before they are captured by Faramir and his men. It starts at 1:43:26 on the TT EE. Is it considered a motif for the Haradrim and the Olyphants? This motif can also be heard on the OST on track 13 starting at 45 seconds (which plays in the film right when you see the Olyphants on screen). I also wonder if it is heard at any other moment in the films. If it is indeed a motif for the Haradrim and the Olyphants, then I would suspect to hear it in ROTK, but maybe its just a nice little danger motif only heard in the TT scene.>>>

>>>This question gets asked a lot, and the answer is, no, it’s not really a theme. In that line Shore DOES set up a specific style of writing that pertains to the Mumakil, but the low string melody is not a recurring motive. In fact, it was only meant to play once in TTT – you hear it twice because of music editing. You’ll be hearing the music that was supposed to be there in the near future.>>>

>>>There was an alternative there!? I suppose you mean that it’s going to be with the rarities discs (I don’t know if I shed it correctly)>>>

No, there’s not an alternate. In the film you hear edited music. On disc, you’ll hear the music that Shore wrote, without the editing.

>>>What about the music that it wasn’t on the OST, and it was then Changed in the EE version. For explain in ROTK when Aragorn charge with the army of the Dead it plays the Gondor theme with a heroic finale until Legolas climb the Mumak. In the EE version the Gondor theme is interrupted by scenes with Gothmog and Eowyn and then comes the heroic finale. I suppose that we will get the EE version, but what about the other version? And I am talking about all this kind of alternative tracks? There are going to be on the other Disks?>>>

This is a good question. I think that you’ll hear the EE versions of these compositions in the CR, and the Theatrical versions will be placed on a different release. This will also be an issue when Aragorn, dressed in his kingly robes, first sets out from Minas Tirith towards the Black Gate…

>>>Or what about the scene when the Nazguls come down on Minas Tirith and the choir that accompanies them?In the EE there was one shot that might have lenghtened the Ringwraith Theme:A Nazgul klling gondorian soldiers on the main wall.It's just about 3-4 seconds(of music too) but it's still longer than the same choir piece from "The Fields of Pelennor".>>>

If a piece is simply expanded, you’ll hear the long all-inclusive version, of course. We’re looking at instances where Theatrical music was actually removed when the EE music came into play.

Ok, to end the speculation—and to correct a few typos that did not originate with the production, here are the correct track titles and running times for TTT: CR:

Disc One:
01 Glamdring 3:50
02 Elven Rope 2:19
03 Lost in Emyn Muil 4:14
04 My Precious 2:56
05 Uglúk's Warriors 1:41
06 The Three Hunters 6:12
07 The Banishment of Éomer 3:54
08 Night Camp 2:50
09 The Plains of Rohan 4:14
10 Fangorn 5:13
11 The Dead Marshes 5:07
12 "Wraiths On Wings" 2:07
13 Gandalf the White 6:47
14 The Dreams of Trees 1:54
15 The Heir of Númenor 6:50
16 Ent-draught 2:53

Disc Two:
01 Edoras 4:34
02 The Court of Meduseld 3:10
03 Théoden King Featuring "The Funeral of Théodred" performed by Miranda Otto 6:12
04 The King's Decision 2:07
05 Exodus From Edoras 5:42
06 The Forests of Ithilien 6:37
07 One of the Dúnedain Featuring "The Evenstar" performed by Isabel Bayrakdarian 7:13
08 The Wolves of Isengard 4:22
09 Refuge at Helm's Deep 3:59
10 The Voice of Saruman 1:11
11 Arwen's Fate Featuring "The Grace of the Valar" performed by Sheila Chandra 3:58
12 The Story Foretold 3:38
13 Sons of the Steward 6:02
14 Rock and Pool 2:54
15 Faramir's Good Council 2:20

Disc Three:
01 Aragorn's Return 2:11
02 War is Upon Us 3:35
03 "Where Is the Horse and the Rider?" 6:15
04 The Host of the Eldar 2:50
05 The Battle of the Hornburg 2:52
06 The Breach of the Deeping Wall 3:03
07 The Entmoot Decides 2:06
08 Retreat Featuring "Haldir's Lament" performed by Elizabeth Fraser 4:40
09 Master Peregrin's Plan 2:31
10 The Last March of the Ents Featuring Ben Del Maestro 2:31
11 The Nazgûl Attack 2:45
12 Théoden Rides Forth Featuring Ben Del Maestro 5:47
13 The Tales That Really Matter 12:01
14 "Long Ways to Go Yet" Featuring "Gollum's Song" performed by Emiliana Torrini 8:05

>>>"Gandalf The White" is actually 7 minutes long? Is there THAT much of unused material? Holy Cow!
And Wraiths On Wings is 10 seconds longer as well.

Now, time to dance the happy dance!

No, wait, save that for audio clips

"The Dead Marshes" is over 5 minutes? It's barely over 3 even in the extended cut!>>>

Now you can see why I’ve been so excited this whole time!

>>>7:58 longer than FOTR!!! When you consider the "padding" in FOTR (Plan 9 et al.) this is really quite extraordinary. Does anyone know how long FOTR would be without this "padding"? I guess this is a rather subjective thing, but it'd be nice to get an idea of exactly how much more HS composed music we're getting here.>>>

>>> To answer my own question, there appears to be 5:18 total Plan 9 music (Flaming Red Hair + Passing of the Elves) plus the Merry and Pippen singing. So by my best estimation (please correct me if I'm wrong) we are getting nearly 14 more minutes of HS composition in this release.>>>

I’m keeping this conversation because it does a better job of explaining the whole “deceptive running time” dilemma than I ever have. There’s a lot more Howard Shore music on this set than in FOTR.

>>>I just noticed the above tracks in Disc One had typos which I have corrected here.

Two of these are on the original www.soundtrack.net website and I hope they did not originate in the printed booklet that will come with the set!>>>

Nope, I think it was a combination of eager fingers typing an email to Dan from WB, and Dan’s lack of coffee in the original posting. No one worry… just the detritus of the quick-paced world of internet reporting. Dan fixed the typos elsewhere, I think.

>>>Great news.But only 8 minutes longer?At least each CD will be over an hour.So that's great.>>>

Please see above.

>>>A question for DOUG.....
Hello, hello, hello....last night mine very eyes viewed a film, and through the course of the film my ears heard things......things that be words, sounds......and music.
For the film my very eyes saw and ears heard was 'Julie Taymor's 1999 'Titus'', a most stunning film (reminding me of Terry Gilliam), featuring triumphant music by Elliot Goldenthal....my ears couldn't help but hear and my mind notice the similarities that sounded like Howard Shore's LOTR....for I know many notes from many composers may in someway sound similar, but my question to you is 'Do you know if Howard Shore was in anyway 'inspired'?(this may not be the right word), or I don't know how to put it,....in-any-way moved upon, that he somehow referenced it?(I know this is the wrong word, but my mind has lost its train of thought at this moment)?????????>>>

Nope, no Titus inspirations. Shore is quite a fan of Goldenthal (and was quite interested in his opera, Grendel, this summer), but that’s about the extent of it. Great score, though. Grendel was great too!

>>>Anyone noticed that on the box cover of The Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers: The Complete Recordings, the focus on the Map of Middle Earth has now moved to Rohan?>>>

Very good catch! Yes, was intentional. I believe Alan Frey came up with the idea.

>>>Wow! Really great intricacy in there Doug. This has aroused my interest much, much more. Now I can't wait to see the inside>>>

I’m thrilled you like it, I think it’s brilliant myself! And I can say that without guilt, because it wasn’t my idea!

>>>I also came to the conclusion that a Symphony CD release wouldn't be really necessary. Though, didn't Howard Shore say that the symphony performance in Canada was recorded for a future release? I thought that's where the DVD material was drawn from.>>>

I’m sure that with so many creative people working through all these projects, something very special COULD be done with the LOTR Symphony. It’s just not on the plate at the moment. I honestly haven’t heard anything one way or the other, but anything’s possible, I suppose.

>>>Indeed, the symphony was filmed here at Montreal the year before last (or, Light, was it three years ago.?); this was the performance I saw. It was subsequently broadcast on RDI (I think), the French CBC television network. It was done with the Festival Lights orchestra and choir (I think is the name). The orchestra had a few violin-solo problems, the signing solos were less than par (especially the boy soprano, in the redemption of nature theme, for example). Nonetheless, it was remarkable to hear the symphony. I read some where long ago that Herr Shore wanted to publish the Complete Recordings with this video recording. In fact, I had assumed that the DVD which came with the FOTR:CR was this performance. Perhaps Mr. Adams can clarify?>>>

No the FOTR: CR DVD is an audio only presentation of the full FOTR score in several high-resolution formats. No Symphony performance is included.

>>>I assume it's been discussed before, but I'm not able to find it right away. Everywhere I read that Doug's book 'is to released in 2006', is there already a more exact date?>>>

No exact date yet, but as I say, one you hear tell of the ROTK: CR release date, you’ll be able to get a decent idea of when you may be finding the book. It’s all penciled in for 2007 right now.

>>>I just listened to the interview with Howard Shore about The Departed from this month's FSM issue. It sounds really terrific actually!

And our Doug got quite some praise for the liner notes from the maestro himself>>>

Thanks! See, everyone, yet another great reason to subscribe to FSM Online!

>>>Ok I am hearing sense the dawn of time…ok ok, from the first time I read this forum about the book of Doug Adams
What is this exactly? (ok I know that’s about LOTR trilogy music)
But it’s all new material? Or it contains the same info with the CR books plus the Annotated score? Or same info with CR books plus new expanded material?
Can some one post a roundup reply? Or even, if Doug has the time to give us a solid info?>>>

It’ll contain all the liners info… plus more info of that ilk. It’ll contain all the Annotated Score info… again, plus more info like that. It’ll contain some sections you’ve never heard of before. I’ll contain multimedia content. It will keep me very busy for the next few months!!

And so will ROTK: CR… which has now begun production.

-Doug

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
The book, in the main, already exists, but it's on the hard drive right now.

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I hope it's on backups, too.

One clarification on the timings:

You list here Disc 2, track 12 as:
>>12 The Story Foretold 3:38<<

Elsewhere it has been 3:58.

Which means we get 20 seconds LESS (WAAAH!)
for a total timing of this disc as 63:59, not 64:19. Correct?

Thanks for correcting the other typos and adding the Tolkienian vowel marks.

Timdalf

[Message edited by Timdalf on 10-15-2006]

And our Doug got quite some praise for the liner notes from the maestro himself>>>

Thanks! See, everyone, yet another great reason to subscribe to FSM Online!
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

And to do some more shameless advertising: the restored score from "Jaws" is great. I can't believe I didn't know this about such a classic

Just one more word about The Departed: Howard Shore constantly amazes me. Silence Of The Lambs, The Fly, Lord Of The Rings, The Departed ... talk about versatility!

PS: the CRs are the only soundtracks I know that don't make a big fuss about featuring unused and alternate music from the film.
They say "complete means complete".

And, yes, The Departed is brilliant, I wholeheartedly agree. I rarely say such things anymore, as my opinion is (perhaps rightly) seen as somewhat less than impartial… but, hey, there it is nonetheless!

quote:

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This will also be an issue when Aragorn, dressed in his kingly robes, first sets out from Minas Tirith towards the Black Gate…

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This comment intrigues me. This cue is the same in the theatrical version and the EE. Is there more to this than meets the eye?