It's probably too late to fix, but there are a few typos towards the end of the annotated score PDF....

Top of page 27 it says "thewhistle" instead of "the whistle".

On page 31, both "The Call" and "The Mearas" are listed as "Disc Two | Track Thirteen" instead of "Disc One | Track Thirteen"

And in the liner notes (sorry!), page 12 "Gilrean's".

I point these out only so that you can correct them if you get a chance.

Overall, I am exceedingly happy with the whole set. It's very interesting hearing all these new bits and pieces, not to mention listening to it with a slightly keener ear for all the themes. And that's all thanks to you and your hard work, Doug! お疲れ！

Reading through all the new themes, a question did pop into my mind - my first question here, in fact...

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Originally posted by Thorf:
While on that subject... Psst... Page 13, "Medusled".

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Well, my copy was shipped yesterday and will hopefully be here by Friday. I'm off from school/work Friday, so that would be wonderful if it came in the morning! (if it doesn't come before then, hehe)

Annonated Score - AWESOME!!! I read about disc 1 last night and I decided to stop at 1:00 instead of staying up till 3:00 or 4:00 to finish it. I'll finish it later! Lullaby Setting...I like it. My guess about the preview podcast's last 30 seconds was correct! Hah, hah!

Also, thanks to Thorf I have now added all the new themes to the database. Now everyone can go have fun and link them to the Two Towers tracks.

And thanks Doug for answering my question about the influence of the older themes on the new themes

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Originally posted by Beren:
Great pocast and annotated score.But why is Barnes&Nobles the only site that offers audio samples?This pi***s me off.

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Originally posted by wampachow:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Beren:
[b]Great pocast and annotated score.But why is Barnes&Nobles the only site that offers audio samples?This pi***s me off.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are also samples on the iTunes Music Store[/B]

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where?

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Originally posted by Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs:
I've read some more of the A. Score and I'm worried! Concerning the Wolves of Isengard...there is no mention of the choral part that takes place before the Isengard theme/The Call. It's on the OST but not in the film. The film just has the fiddle, and the A. Score mentions the fiddle with Eowyn's "complaint", but NOTHING about the choral part. Actually, in the film, it comes in at the end just before the Isengard theme/The Call. Can someone PLEASE tell me if that (Wonderfully, Magnificently Brilliant) choral part is on the CR? I'm worried about it because it is (possibly) my favorite choral part of any in the trilogy! Its uniqueness and etherealness just really gets me. The part writing is awesome! Thanks.

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There are also samples on the iTunes Music Store[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is only the first paragraph of many dozens!! Can you all hear the poetics in this? Talk about alliteration and assonance! :-)

Interesting is the note in the Liner Notes about numerology and the number 9... Of course, Church Tradition has it that there are 9 Orders of Angels, something Tolkien would surely have known. Further, one can divide Wagner's works into 3 groups of 3 trilogies (The Ring's Rheingold being merely a prologue) and each has 3 acts. So one can see a dialectical pattern in Wagner's development and in his plots.

I also have to admit I was a bit disappointed to see Gandalf's "resurrection" attributed to Nature. In the book he makes clear he "was sent back", by the Valar of course, who are in Tolkien's mythology angelic figures in the service of Iluvatar. Tolkien would have been quite dismayed to see his work robbed of its supernaturalism by animist or pantheist nature worship interpretations, being a staunch Christian himself.

And another problem is to call Frodo and Sam "friends". Yes, that is how it comes out in the film, but Tolkien saw their relationship in much more of a hierarchical mode. Of course, the deference of lower classes to upper that was intrinsic to the English society he knew was largely lost during WWII, but it is noteworthy that only once in the book does Sam refer to Frodo as less than "sir" or "Mr. Frodo" and that is when he has been rendered senseless by Shelob. Unfortunately in the film this distinction was not kept.

Timdalf

PS: There is another typo on p. 4 l. 4 in Ugluk's Warriors... it should read "...tossed upon the Uruks' shoulders..."

Same error on p. 5 in the In the Making sidebar l. 8.

The phrasing in TTT:CR
"The Dream of Trees" (0:17 - 0:25) and (0:25 - 0:35)

Sounds very related to RoTK
"A Storm is Coming" (0:22 - 0:30)

Is there some sort of relationship here? In TTT, Merry and Pippin are sleeping / dreaming, and in RoTK, it's played over the opening Titles which proceeds to a flashback / dream of Smeagol's earlier life.

Of course, I could be off my rocker as well. What do you folks think?

~Valandil~

Anyway, my set is coming via Amazon. I should have it by end of week. It'll be a good weekend.

It's hard to choose between Gandalf's resurrection in the CR and the version in the OST. It's wonderful to have both to listen to now. I have to agree with Timdalf on how Tolkien might have reacted to the resurrection being more "animist" than angelic. However I don't think the supernaturalism has been dropped, just expressed differently.

In the FotR CR DVD (the DVD-audio disc), there was this strange and very noticeable dropout of volume when the volume would reach extremely high levels (particularly noticeable in the DVD track Balin's Tomb). Since it was mostly limited to this track, I shrugged it off as maybe just an anomaly.

So I stick in my TTT Complete Recordings DVD into my Mac today to listen to it, and the first track, Glamdring, exhibits SO much of this effect that it was distracting enough that I couldn't concentrate on the music. It sounds exactly as if a mixer is turning down the master volume knob when the volume reaches its greatest crescendos (choral outbursts and brass especially). I was nearly horrified to hear this on the TTT disc.

I am up to "Lost in Emyn Muil," and this track exhibits this anomaly just once that I noticed (in the Gollum/Frodo/Sam fight sequence).

Is anyone else noticing this?

Edit:

I just arrived at the first brass statement of the Fellowship theme (the really 'huge' one at 0:28) in "The Three Hunters," and this effect was so extreme, my jaw literally dropped open and I scrambled to turn off the music and rewind to hear it again. Same thing.

I also noticed by listening to the CD versions of these same tracks, that this effect is not present at all on the CDs, only on the DVD. It was the same with the Fellowship. Admittedly, I don't listen to the DVD much, because I am not at home to use it (I use my iPod nano), but it is still disturbing nonetheless.

P.S. So THAT is Grima's theme! I LOVE it! I've long held that as the 'coolest' part of the OST track "The King of the Golden Hall," and it's great to know what exactly it is. Yet another supposed 'independent figure' that isn't.

[Message edited by NeoVoyager on 11-08-2006]

quote:

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Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wampachow:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Beren:
[b]Great pocast and annotated score.But why is Barnes&Nobles the only site that offers audio samples?This pi***s me off.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are also samples on the iTunes Music Store[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean Itunes.com and then?[/B]

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I think part of the reason you may be experiencing this with only the DVD versions is due to the mix being 5.1. If you only have 2 speakers (or 2 speakers and a sub-woofer) on your Mac, it's possible that there are three whole other channels that are not being utilized. For example, in a 5.1 DVD mix (as opposed to a Stereo CD mix), the Fellowship Theme played by the horns in "The Three Hunters" may be mixed to the mid central speaker, or 2 rear left and right speakers instead of the front left and right. You'd still hear them, because the mix would probably still bleed a little of those instruments to adjacent speakers, but the main element would be lost.

I'd be willing to bet if you played the DVD soundtrack at a friend's house who has a 5 speaker surround-sound system that supports 5.1, you'd hear the instruments mixed just fine.

In fact, I'll try it out here on my PC (2 speakers & sub-woofer) then downstairs on my surround sound, and see if I get the same results.

Edit: Well, trying both the stereo mix and 5.1 mix off the DVD on my PC yielded no noticable differences - I can hear the mix just fine on The Three Hunters as well as the other tracks you mentioned. I'm not sure what the issue is. Maybe the Mac you have doesn't support 5.1 audio? My PC soundcard *does* even though I only have 3 speakers, so guess I'm not much of a help. Sorry!

I don't know about the 5.1 surround idea... I tried switching the audio to Dolby Stereo and I got the same results. If I ever find someone that has a 5.1 surround system though, I'll see if I can try it out. I suppose I was being a little emotional , since I won't be using the DVD much anyway... but overall, I am simply adoring everything I hear (from the CDs).

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I also have to admit I was a bit disappointed to see Gandalf's "resurrection" attributed to Nature. In the book he makes clear he "was sent back", by the Valar of course, who are in Tolkien's mythology angelic figures in the service of Iluvatar. Tolkien would have been quite dismayed to see his work robbed of its supernaturalism by animist or pantheist nature worship interpretations, being a staunch Christian himself.[/B]

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>>>Well you could think that Nature itself is governed by the Valar and Gandalf's mission has same goals as Nature's. Nature also reflects the way the world should be as Valar have intended it. And the liner notes say: "Gandalf the White exists because the same Power (I see this as Valar) that has established in the Nature the will to reclaim Middle-Earth has also ordained Gandalf for this purpose." So I do not see how liner notes shut out the possibility that Gandalf was sent back by Valar.<<<

Never gladder to be proven somewhat wrong than now! Thanks for pointing out that quote from p. 33 of the liner notes.

I was referring to the phrase on p. 25 of the Annotated Score "...Gandalf, remade by Nature, has borne Its will to the Fellowship and to the Rohirrim uniting these forces against Sauron...".

However, this needs to be read along with the other relevant passages:

On p. 9 of the Annotated Score "...The wizard has now been sent back as an agent of Nature..."

And in the liner notes:
"...Behind each of Gandalf's actions within the Fellowship lie the mystical motivations that transformed him from G the Grey to G the White. The White Rider (in the Fellowship) speaks to the outcome of these motivations -- Natures's will manifested in Middle-earth...." p. 23

"...But G's responsibilities within this group [the Fellowship] are governed by a higher power. G the White exists because the same Power that has established in the Nature the will to reclaim Middle-Earth has also ordained Gandalf for this purpose. This second theme, The White Rider (in Nature),speaks directly to G's relationship with Nature, and with this supernatural force...." p. 33

I think, taking all this into consideration now, your interpolation about this Power ("I see this as [referring to the] Valar") indeed may be in this context quite warranted. After all Nature is not a "supernatural force" by definition. It is limited by the determinist laws of Nature. Only a supernatural benevolent consciousness like the Valar/Angels in harmony (pun intended) with Iluvatar [i.e., God] could have a power so transcendent of mortality as to be able to resurrect Gandalf (who is one of the Maiar -- servants of the Valar -- as, by the way were the Balrog and Sauron himself).

The Patristic Consensus of the Church, by the way, makes clear that Christianity considers all of Nature to be in a fallen state of corruptibility and mortality due to man's fall into the same, since man is the keystone and "head" of created Nature. And so Nature strives to be restored (resurrected) pristine to the original intention of the Creator through and including man via His Incarnation (as in turn the Head of mankind) into it and consequent Resurrection.

All of this was, I think it is safe to say, known to Tolkien given his religious upbringing. And it is reassuring to think it was not lost on the makers of The Film and its score! These White Rider themes (and the Reclamation of Nature theme) do have a certain sublime "unearthly" quality!

Thanks for pointing this out. Gotta read them Liner Notes less hastily (Hrum! Hoomm!) in the future!
Timdalf

[Message edited by Timdalf on 11-09-2006]

[Message edited by Timdalf on 11-09-2006]

[Message edited by Timdalf on 11-09-2006]

[Message edited by Timdalf on 11-09-2006]

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Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
NeoVoyager, check the settings on your player. Many DVD players and software have an level limiting feature so that you can watch stuff late at night and not be adjusting the sound all the time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by wampachow:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wampachow:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Beren:
[b]Great pocast and annotated score.But why is Barnes&Nobles the only site that offers audio samples?This pi***s me off.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are also samples on the iTunes Music Store[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean Itunes.com and then?[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to install iTunes and go to the iTunes Music Store within the application.[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Beren:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wampachow:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wampachow:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Beren:
[b]Great pocast and annotated score.But why is Barnes&Nobles the only site that offers audio samples?This pi***s me off.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are also samples on the iTunes Music Store[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean Itunes.com and then?[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to install iTunes and go to the iTunes Music Store within the application.[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do i do that exactly?[/B]

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go to the bottom of the home page and select United states. then power search then albus:two towers

quote:

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Originally posted by Valandil:
Just something that occurred to me while listening through TTT:CR again today...

The phrasing in TTT:CR
"The Dream of Trees" (0:17 - 0:25) and (0:25 - 0:35)

Sounds very related to RoTK
"A Storm is Coming" (0:22 - 0:30)

Is there some sort of relationship here? In TTT, Merry and Pippin are sleeping / dreaming, and in RoTK, it's played over the opening Titles which proceeds to a flashback / dream of Smeagol's earlier life.

Of course, I could be off my rocker as well. What do you folks think?

~Valandil~

[Message edited by Valandil on 11-08-2006]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oboe-man:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Beren:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wampachow:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Oboe-man:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wampachow:
[b] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Beren:
[b]Great pocast and annotated score.But why is Barnes&Nobles the only site that offers audio samples?This pi***s me off.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are also samples on the iTunes Music Store[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean Itunes.com and then?[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to install iTunes and go to the iTunes Music Store within the application.[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do i do that exactly?[/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

go to the bottom of the home page and select United states. then power search then albus:two towers

[/B]

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