I think I discovered something (or perhaps it's been discovered and I just didn't know it), the underscore when Bilbo has given his speech and is talking to himself, isnt't that the same rythm as the Ringwraith Theme --> referring to the consequences of putting the ring on?

People really have no appreciation for quality filmmaking anymore.

I mean, don't they know the film is going to be over three hours?
ROTK just needed that time to unwind, to slow down. You can't just jump from the coronation to the credits.

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
I can't for the life of me understand how people can walk out on a movie before the credits roll on, because THEY think the movie's over.
That is *so* very disrespectful to the filmmakers, don't you think?

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I don't know if I could answer you're questions or not but I could suggest two things.

Do you have the CR-FOTR? If so, you might consider figuring out where the music you're talking about is on that and tell us. For example, Disc 1, Track 2, 0:30-0:55. I could listen to those a whole lot easier than I can dig out my movies and look for the scenes you're asking about.

I obviously don't mean anything i said above.Just want to heat up this dull atmosphere.

P.S. id you hear about the new Tolkien book?
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/books/09/18/books.newtolkien.ap/index.html

P.P.S.:One short question:what prophecy is actually reffering to the music piece with the same title from the FOTR:OST?

OK, since things are getting more and more like the Dead Marshes, here are a few questions about some things I wish had not been written:
First, my most unfavorite song of the 4 credit songs is Gollum's... I find E. Torinni's voice annoying and just WHO is singing this song... Gollum? it sounds more like a jilted lover's whine! And that is not his character, it seems to me...
Several of the lines seem really odd:
Where once was love, love is no more...
When did Gollum love anybody???
For all the lies you told us, the hurt, the blame?
Who blamed him or lied to him?
The last verse sounds like it is being sung TO Gollum, not by him...
(None of these comments refer to the music itself, of course, just the lyrics. but I would have preferred it had been left off the CR recordings, to be honest... I always skip it when I listen to the OST!)

Some other lyrics that don't seem to fit, to me at least:
Into the West:
Who is singing this song...? Everything is superb except for the lines "Safe in my arms, you're only sleeping..." "You'll be here in my arms,..." Whose arms? Galadriel's, Elbereth's, Arwen's??? For the first two it seems a bit out of place for their rank, and Arwen is not Frodo's real protector except for The Film's scene at the Ford... I would have written "Safe in this land,..." "You'll be here in this land..." since the song is really about entering the Undying Lands of the West...
And I know about [one] actual inspiration of the song, the premature death of Cameron Duncan from cancer... That makes the song very moving and does add a layer of meaning, but I think it intrudes in this line... It remains a great song and my favorite on all other counts, though, and I love Annie Lennox's rendition.

Am I being a grumpy orc with all this??

Timdalf

Focusing on the TT:CR so much I almost forgot about the rarities disc w/book that is supposed to come out some time next year. A brush up on the preliminary details or an overview would be nice. Doug?

Are you being grumpy? I don't think so. I thought that Gollum's song was a bit strange too (and beautiful) but I look at it like this:

My assumption is that Gollum may have been loved by his family before he got hold of the ring. When his family and community found out what he had done to get it they cast him out.

(Torrini's voice IS an acquired taste I'll admit but I like it. I also like Bjork)

>>For all the lies you told us, the hurt, the blame?
Who blamed him or lied to him?<<

I assume that this is Gollum's rage and cries against the ring. The ring is seductive and can convince people that they can wield it without coming under Sauron's control. The ring is also treacherous and betrays everyone but its true master, hence Gollem's cries against "the lies..". Gollem speaks to himself in the third person so the when you look at it that way the lyrics can make sense.

About Into the West:
>>"Safe in my arms, you're only sleeping..." "You'll be here in my arms,..." <<

This is pure conjecture, but perhaps the person speaking these words is one of the Valar, speaking as a nurturer and protector of those who come there for their final rest. Someone who can wipe away all pain, danger and sorrow, a godlike person, not neccesarily someone from Middle Earth.

Hlasta!
Quetis Ilfirimain:

Corma turien te
Corma tuvien
Corma tultien te
Huines se nutien.

Tercáno Nuruva.
Tuvien Corma tultien te
Huinesse nutien
Corma turien te Corma.

'Listen!

It speaks to those who were not born to die(=Elves, the elven smiths):

(The Ringspell Engravced into the One Ring):
[One] Ring to rule them [all]
[One] Ring to find [them]
[One] Ring to bring them [all]
[And] in the Darkness bind it

[The] Herald of Death (=The One Ring)
to find [One] Ring, to bring them [all]
[And] in the Darkness bind it

[One] Ring to rule them [all], [One] Ring'

Tolkien writes in the Silmarillion (The Rings of Power and Third Age) how Sauron forged the One Ring and at the moment he spoke the Ring spell and completed the Forging of the Ring and put it on his finger the elves became aware to of his treachery.

[Message edited by Incanus on 09-23-2006]

Off course I have the FOTR CR (shame on the people that don't own it )

And yes, I have read the annotated score and it helped me a lot to understand some things, but not what I posted above.

And you are absolutely right I should have given tracktimes etc... so here it is :
Disk 1, Track 7 0:04 - 0:20 --> I think the underscore represents the Ringwraith theme, but I could be mistaken

And thank you for taking time ro reply my messages

Ah, The Silmarillion...made into at least 3 films (maybe more); made by Jackson and NZ crew; as good as (or better than) The Lord of the Rings; and, of course, Shore writing the music in the same magnificent style as LotR...ah, wishful thinking .

quote:

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Originally posted by vdemona:
About Into the West:
>>"Safe in my arms, you're only sleeping..." "You'll be here in my arms,..." <<

This is pure conjecture, but perhaps the person speaking these words is one of the Valar, speaking as a nurturer and protector of those who come there for their final rest. Someone who can wipe away all pain, danger and sorrow, a godlike person, not neccesarily someone from Middle Earth.

---

M: I thought you had the CR... but I don't assume anything (and I rarely keep straight anything anyone says). And I figured if there was a small chance you hadn't checked out the AS, then it was worth mentioning.

B: Sorry you were feeling neglected. :-) I don't often answer questions like this just because it takes me so long to dig stuff out. (I don't know how you young people keep all that stuff in your head.) But one of the pieces of music that M asked about rung a bell with me and I thought there was a chance I could answer if given a little help. He got his answer on the Ringwraith music but it was the long strings question that niggled at my memory.

T: I actually like Gollum's song a lot. I like how ET's voice changes subtly from kind of pitiful whining to subtly sinister. Frodo lied... (in Gollum's eyes) at Henneth Annun. The hurt... Gollum's is playing the victim. The blame, perhaps it's Sam he's speaking of.

I don't really like Into the West. I don't like the words (I think it's been officially stated the speaker is Galadriel). They don't make sense to me. I don't especially like AL' voice. I think Scarlet Tide was robbed at the Oscars but I'm glad ROTK swept them, too. Sometimes we don't win for the things that are our best work.

I am a big Enya fan and I will sing along with May It Be... but it also doesn't make any sense to me. There's something really wrong grammatically with that song... or the words are wrong... or both.

I first got into the LotR scores in 2003, when I picked up TTT, then FotR, then RotK. Having never seen the films or read the books, I listened to the scores from a purely musical standpoint for years, and being a lifelong fan of classical and operatic music, I was simply awestruck at the brilliance and intelligence of them. I finally saw the extended edition films earlier this year.

I waited for and bought the FotR:CR like the day after its release, and it has become my favorite musical work EVER. So, like many of you I'm sure, I scoured the internet like every week looking for info regarding a TTT:CR release date. Finally!

Anyway, here I am, waiting for it with baited breath. :-)

To me, it's a tough read, especially the first few chapters, which deal with the creation of the beings on middle-earth (elves, dwarfs, etc.) But it comes off as an unbelievable epic. The Beren and Luthien chapter was absolutely stunning. A true love story in many different ways.

Thank you and have a good day.

>>Somewhere on the ROTK EE it is said that the person saying these words is Galadriel, to Frodo.<<

Well, then. There you go.

As far as the Silmarillian on film - it seems quite impossible to put such a massive work on screen. But isn't this the exact same claim most people have said about The Lord of the Rings? People had been trying to make a film out of the epic since the sixties. Ralph Bakshi, bless his heart, tried and failed thanks to an unsupportive studio).

about those long strings, you said they rang a bell...

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Like PJ said, the story is about Frodo and the ring, not Aragorn or Arwen or Rohan.
And Frodo's relationship to the ring ends at the Grey Havens.

---

It certainly isn't about Arwen. If it were, a better film-maker would have had to do something more with her over the 2.5 hours she's off-screen in RETURN OF THE KING. After the beefing up of the role in FOTR and TTT, you'd think they could have something more with her in the last part.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gkgyver:
Like PJ said, the story is about Frodo and the ring, not Aragorn or Arwen or Rohan.
And Frodo's relationship to the ring ends at the Grey Havens.

---

I slightly disagree... it's not only about Frodo, but more or less about all nine companions. Some people have even argued it's about Sam (being the first and last of the nine to appear in the book), and while I can't quite follow that, I do think it's appropriate that this is true for the films (EEs at least) as well.

Regarding the Mouth of Sauron... I thought he was fine. What I very much dislike about the scene is Aragorn beheading him. But, as with Gandalf knocking down Denethor (the worst scene by far in all three films), I just can't get people to understand it's totally out of character.

quote:

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gkgyver, this is because not all the people are LOTR geeks, speaking on the other movies, let's face it - you can't predict that you'll love the never-before-seen movie to the bone, besides, there are so many trash movies that people leave the cinema even before the middle.

---

Wait a minute. Just because alot of people do that doesn't mean it's ok.
And what are you trying to say? That you have to be a "LOTR geek" to stay until the movie ends? That you have to love a film to its bone to watch it in its entirety?
Sorry, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
There are just things that aren't "comme il faut".

quote:

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Originally posted by Beren:
Maybe it just wasn't shot.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Regarding the Mouth of Sauron... I thought he was fine. What I very much dislike about the scene is Aragorn beheading him. But, as with Gandalf knocking down Denethor (the worst scene by far in all three films), I just can't get people to understand it's totally out of character.

---

That's why I think a TV series would be a really good idea. It could be done as a mix of docu and drama, also varying to a degree depending on the segments.

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Aragorn poked Gimli because he snored during Sam's poem about Gandalf.

---

Gimli shouldn't have snored (one of just way too many dwarf jokes in the movies), but even if he did, Aragorn shouldn't hit him like that.

quote:

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I have nothing against Aragorn screaming in TTT. Why wouldn't he? He doesn't do it in the book, yes, but I don't think it's that much of a departure. And it fits the scene.

---

Thought I'd try some answers this morning.

>>>I thought the theme referred in that little scene in TTT is the Completion of
the Quest/Destruction of the Ring (as I call it) theme which is heard in the End
of All Things (3;53-> ).>>>

>>>I think I know what theme it is. I believe it is a hint of the majestic,
ending variation of the Sauron theme, which plays over the falling Barad-Dur and
Black Gates, in ROTK.>>>

>>>Ya, I think were talking about the same theme here. Am I the only one who
thinks that it has a little of the Sauron theme in it? I sense the same up and
down motion in the beginning of each theme. It also makes sense to me, being a
"majestic, ending variation" as it plays over the "ending" of Sauron's reign.>>>

You're definitely in the right headspace here. The Evil of the Ring is bound up in this "new" theme, but there are other connections. It's an answering theme, one which resolves several of the music conflicts within Middle-earth. It's a complicated little line... and that complication is compounded in Two Towers where you're not really sure what it's telling you. Happy Sauron music? Huh?

What a brilliant little moment!

>>>I think we will be guessing the theme up untill we have the RotK liner notes

We all have a prospective candidate.>>>

It'll get a little attention in TTT's notes, but yes, ROTK will explain much more.

>>>Thank you for the update Mr. Adams.Regarding the two versions of Theoden
music never heard before,could one of them be the music played during the
Appendices menu from disc 4 of TTT:EE?I remember that it sounded
rohanish,beautiful and never heard before.Or is it smth else?>>>

Are you referring to the Main Menu music? If so, that’s from the EE scene during the exodus from Edoras. Théoden is talking about Éowyn, and how he should have been a father to her. It’s just before she brings out the awful looking stew. That’s why there are a few hints of Éowyn’s primary theme in there.

>>>Hello, I'm new here and it took me hours to read everything related to the
LOTR scores. I really enjoy the score, but when I read all this, I understand I
know nothing yet. And I really want to do something about that.

It's just amazing how much interesting things Doug Adams is posting here. Even
in Belgium (where I'm living) people interested in soundtracks know your name!
(Now you know I'm from Belgium, you might want to forgive my poor English

I'm looking forward to CR from TT but now my priority is finding a cue by cue
analysis from CR FOTR so I can really discuss things with all of you (Afterwards
I can study TT, which I already have found on this site - great cue by cue
analysis by the way- I found one from CR FOTR made on this site but it's not complete.

Is there anyone that can help me?

Looking forward to new information

I think I'm gonna like it here ;>>>

Thanks, glad you're here, Matthijs.

>>>Much of what you heard in the theater in this scene was created through
mixing... like the big choral crescendo. You'll hear quite a bit more on disc -
it really fleshes out the first appearance of a Nazgûl in TTT, both tying him
firmly to the FOTR Black Riders, and making him seem much more vicious and
dangerous.

Uuh, are you saying that "cue" was tracked in? Or that there were just some
instrument sections dropped in the mixing?>>>

It's a little of everything to be honest. Sections of Shore's original composition are in there, but remixed. Some of the overlays, however, didn't originate with this composition. You'll see / hear. The full piece offers a much more extensive view of the Ringwraith and Mordor musics.

>>>This CR better be good, you've just raised my expectations a hell of alot!>>>

Well, all I can offer is my opinion... to my ears, yes it's that good.

>>>By the way, Plan 9 did the Eowyn song? I always thought it was, well,
improvised on set or something.>>>

Yes, Plan 9 gets the credit for that one. In the process of the assembly I was able to hear Miranda Otto's first take on this piece... the performance that was actually captured on-set. (Those of you who have paid attention all the film's Making Of... docs will remember that most of the film was looped because much of it was filmed near an airport, so they were constantly besieged by low-flying planes.) Her original take on the material was quite different, and I think it's a testament to her performing abilities that the final product sounds so organic and improvised.

>>>I'm wondering, does Plan 9 have a website? If they do I can't seem to find
it! I really enjoy the diagetic pieces they've created for the films. It would
be nice to see what other collaborations they've been involved in and whether
they've released other music.>>>

I do not believe that Plan 9 has their own website. Too bad, really, because I'd love to link to it through the notes.

>>>It's just amazing how much interesting things Doug Adams is posting here.
Even in Belgium (where I'm living) people interested in soundtracks know your
name!

Watch out, Howard Shore, soon the name of Doug Adams shall become better known
amongst thy followers than thy own!>>>

Ha! Well, let's just bear in the mind that Howard Shore created this beautiful work of music not me! I know I do a lot of the public stuff, but I wish that many of the people working on these releases were equally as visible. You can't imagine the amount of time effort and dedication they've applied towards this production. Each and every one of them deserves more kudos than we can ever offer.

>>>I watched a good part of TTT last night, and during the introduction of
Treebeard, did anyone else notice the unused music from Weathertop? This might
be an old hat for some of you, but I've never realised it until yesterday.>>>

You know, you've got a knack for noticing where great music has been cut out of the film--despite the fact that you haven't heard it before. Most impressive! The complete Entering Fangorn sequence features some of my favorite unused music in the entire film. There's an idea in the first half of the composition--which you have already heard--that returns two more times in the music, and builds up the wonderment of Treebeard. That's just a great piece... anxiety, fury, amazement, bemusement... it highlights Shore's gift for navigating an enormous trough of emotional material in a compact timeframe.

>>>Guys, could anybody please unveil what's the theme that we hear in the middle
of the ROTK trailer, when Aragorn cry "I see in your eyes the same fear..."?
This is a kind of version of Minas-Tirith theme, another abandoned concept?
Unfortunately I didn't hear this piece in the film, any hope for CR?>>>

The ROTK trailer is a unique beast. Shore wrote the music for the trailer (hence the use of the Heroics of Aragorn theme), but the final product was sort of remixed and punched up by an outside company.

>>>Beren, the theme that occurs as Aragorn makes his way to Helm's Deep is the
"Heroics of Aragorn" theme. The most similar rendition of that theme in FoTR is
when Aragorn begans to fight the Uruk-hai at Amon Hen. Listen to both and you'll
hear the similarity. Simply awesome...>>>

That theme makes a number of appearances in both TTT and ROTK, but often masked... or attached to other themes. It's another incredibly significant little bit of music!

>>>Actually, I was thinking the same thing...and I realized that it happened
sometime around when the Annotated Score showed up on the soundtrack site. So I
guess we can look for that happening as an indication that things are hotting
up.>>>

If I remember, the FOTR Annotated Score went live a day or two after the CDs hit the shelves. I don't know what Reprise / Warners has planned this time out, but I'm sure the web material will coincide closely with the CD release. I doubt the new web material will be up before the set is released, but I suppose it's possible.

>>>Now about the running time again; in the special LOTR issue of Music From The
Movies, there are specific numbers mentioned:>>>

I don’t remember exactly where MFTM came up with these numbers (I don't have the issue with me at the moment), but despite their Herculean efforts with this piece, I think they’ve sort of misrepresented what these numbers actually mean.

Now, I’m obviously not criticizing MFTM, because they did a great job. But I think if you’re going to take a holistic approach to the LOTR music, you need to do it terms of musical composition, not minutes and seconds. The time factor is too murky, and I don’t think any one’s ever going to come to a consensus on how to apply it. If Shore rewrote 30 bars in the middle of a 500 measure piece, how do you tabulate the minutes of music written? What about an EE piece that was book ended on either side by 10 measures which were also in the Theatrical cut? They were recorded months apart, and they lead into different material, but how exactly do those minutes rack up? I could see them counting unused or alternate compositions, but even that gets muddy. You all know from the Two Towers DVD that there’s an alternate version of the track that was called “Samwise the Brave” on the OST. But only the first few minutes of a very long composition are different, so what’s the minute total on that?

See what I mean? The numbers game doesn’t really present a very clear picture. What you’re getting in the boxed sets is a complete set of the final version of all the compositions Shore wrote for The Lord of the Rings. You will eventually get non-final versions, but that’s later. Right now, it’s story time! Peeking behind the scenes comes later.

>>>FYI...I love love love the Fan Credit pieces that featured at the end in all three of the movies. I hope that the pieces will surface in the future on CD...the rarities disk perhaps. I wonder if will be with Doug's book. Anyway, my opinion...the pieces should have been included on the CR disks...but I think their length would have prohibited their inclusion.>>>

The Fan Scroll music hasn’t been presented as part of the end credits because it’s already in the movie. Those suites were just edited together from music around the film, and since that music is already on the CRs’ in its proper narrative placement it seemed aesthetically “off” to say, "Ok here it is again… uh, except now it's shorter and non-narrative." (Ok, ok, talk about misrepresenting something… now I’m doing it! Yes, the FOTR scroll contains the NZSO’s take on the Breaking of the Fellowship music… so it’s *technically* incorrect to imply you’re hearing it “again.” However, the narrative disconnect theory still applied here pretty strongly as it made little musical sense to hear the same lengthy chunk of music two times within 10 minutes—give or take—of play time.)

>>>I agree. My favorite one is the Fellowship(title 1, chapter 21 1:55:40 on my dvd player). It's mainly just the strings performing the Fellowship theme and there's something plaintive and pure about it that makes it the most beautiful version of that theme to me. I was a little sad when I found out that it wasn't on the CR set. But it is nice to have it on the EE dvd.>>>

Yes, this is the New Zealand Symphony’s take on the music. While you do have London Philharmonic’s reading, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the NZSO’s turn up… someday.

>>>If i'm not wrong HS recorded 12hrs of music for LOTR.That would mean that TTT and ROTK CR should be at least 4h30 minutes in lenght.Maybe we'll not get to hear all the recorded music after all.However the're might be a rarities disc,but it would be A disc;with a maximum of 80 minutes of music.But it will still remain some 7h40 minutes for TTT and ROTK.So that's 444 minutes for each=>unfitted on 3 discs.>>>

TTT—in its entirety—fits on three discs. No worries.

>>>Isn't a rarity per definiton a piece that's in NO version of the film?>>>

Yes and no. There will be music on TTT:CR that is in no version of the film… heck there’s music on the OST that’s in no version of the film. (Treebeard’s bassoon, for one.) I guess the definition of “rarity” in this instance would be concepts that were recorded, but passed over in favor of revised musical concepts (“musical,” because the concept of silence doesn’t apply).

>>>I think that RotK has more "(very) high strings" music in the score than in TT and FotR. There's an ascending motive that's all high strings. Is this true, DOUG?>>>

Heh, I’ve never had to quantify high string writing before…but sure, I guess so, why not! ROTK, in general, features the most extroverted writing of LOTR.

>>>I've thought about something for the past few months...I think there's a connection between 3 themes, and "death" or "fading away" is the connection. The themes are: Minas Tirith(the first 4 notes), Into the West(the first 4 notes), and 'Theoden's Old Age' motive(in TTT) (all 4 notes). What do ya think? DOUG???>>>

Although I’m all for these type of connections, it may be a stretch to apply one in this case. Minas Tirith begins on the fifth degree of a Lydian mode and isn’t totally stepwise. Into the West begins on the fourth degree on an Ionian mode and *is* stepwise. And the Théoden material I *think* you’re referring to is actually a theme that’s between Éowyn and Théoden… which is why it’s nearly identical to her primary theme. This theme climaxes on the fields on the Pelennor when Éowyn slays the Witch-king, so it’s really much more her theme… a theme of self actualization rather than decline.

>>>One more thing...I just realized (and this might be an "old hat" for some of you) that some of the same text/music is used for 2 choral parts in TT: Right before Gandalf falls in Moria and as he reveals himself as Gandalf the White to possessed Theoden. I'm not sure what the text is, but it sounds something like: ae tah nah. Pretty cool connection, whatever it means. DOUG?>>>

>>>Mettana : To the end (Quenya)>>>

Magpie’s got it. It’s from Philippa Boyens’ text “The Fight.”

>>>Actually, she said once the CRs are out, she most likely will take the site off the web.>>>

I know Magpie has already addressed this, but I would like to add that it would be absolutely heartbreaking if her site were to go off-line. I hope it’s around forever.

>>>I was wondering, (perhaps it's already discussed) at the beginning of FOTR CR (after 30 seconds) brass and strings build op to one of the Ring themes. This building up is repeated somethimes further on. I was wondering if this building up has a connection to some of the themes or is it just a building up?>>>

It’s really just a little build up into the History of the Ring theme, no greater dramatic significance than that. A transitional passage. But you’re absolutely right that it’s the same bar and half or so in each instance.

>>>And there is something else i'm woundering about. (you can say when I'm repeating things already discussed, I know this might be familiar to you , sorry for that)The music, played when Isildur is attacked and he loses the ring. Is that related to something else?>>>

This will be a major point of discussion in ROTK. You’ll see more then!

>>>In actual fact, before the ROTK cinema release had come out (about 6 months prior), I once heard a rumor that they actually shot nine different possible endings....I don't know if this is true or not, but one never knows........>>>

I think there was a short scene shot of Éowyn and Faramir’s wedding… and possibly even some departures with the Fellowship members each going their own way after the coronation. None of these were ever scored, however.

>>>how is the track list coming along, is it finalized yet and if so, will it appear on the net soon?>>>

Yep, the track list is finalized and has been since late July. I’m guessing that the list will hit the web same as it did with FOTR… some online dealer will get info from the label and post it on their site. Who had it up first last time, Barnes & Noble? I can’t remember. I suppose it’s always possible that the official Howard Shore site will list the tracks first, but I don’t have any info regarding that, sorry.

>>>And what about some samples?Just a taste of its beauty.>>>

Again, I’m not in that loop, so I don’t know. I think it would be rather ill-advised of me to start posting clips on my own, so I think I’ll steer away from that!

>>>Am I right if I say that the long string lines played when Bilbo is talking to Gandalf in the kitchen (about getting old etc...) can be linked to the long string lines played when Gandalf is talking to Frodo in Moria about Gollem (just before the incredibly beautiful line : all you have to decide ... is said)? And are there other moments when these long strings make their appearance?>>>

These chords are based on the opening harmonies of the Shire theme which, in a certain even-paced rhythm, eventually become the Hymn Setting of the Shire theme. It hasn’t fully formed yet in this scene, but it’ll be back shortly when Frodo and Bilbo talk at the birthday party. The Hymn Setting is the least used setting of the Shire theme, but it gets around a bit.

>>>I think I discovered something (or perhaps it's been discovered and I just didn't know it), the underscore when Bilbo has given his speech and is talking to himself, isnt't that the same rythm as the Ringwraith Theme --> referring to the consequences of putting the ring on?>>>

I think it could be read as either a light version of Wraith material, or as a dark version of the Hobbit End Cap. I would tend to go with the latter—especially considering that Bilbo knows little of the Wraiths at this point, and because the glassy quintuplet figures above are based on the Hobbit Outline figure. But it’s certainly open to a bit of interpretation, I think.

>>>P.P.S.:One short question:what prophecy is actually reffering to the music piece with the same title from the FOTR:OST?>>>

It may interest you to know that the original title of this text was “The Battle of Dagorlad.” Make of that what you will.

>>>Focusing on the TT:CR so much I almost forgot about the rarities disc w/book that is supposed to come out some time next year. A brush up on the preliminary details or an overview would be nice. Doug?>>>

It’s still a bit early to discuss either of those right now, as discussions and decisions are still ongoing. But don’t fear, I’ll keep you posted.

However, I can tell you that the TTT Annotated Score is nearly done. Draft 2.5 is complete and awaiting revisions. The layout isn’t complete at all, but in its rough form, we’re already pushing 50 pages. So I’d say you can expect to encounter a fair number of details in there somewhere!

P.S.:Yes you're right,that piece is from the scene when Theoden speaks about Eowyn.Could that be,partly,regarded as a rohan past history theme.It seems to me more majestic than just reffering it to Eowyn.

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Originally posted by Olorin:
However, IMHO, the Sil could never be made as a single movie. It is far too long and complicated, and it doesn't have much of a cohesive, through-going storyline (other than the struggle against Morgoth, the background against which the individual tales are told). Certain parts of it, such as the tale of Beren and Luthien, could make a great movie, but I couldn't see even that story presented without a precursor movie to establish the mythos.

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The liners are limited to 46 5 x 5 pages because of cost concerns. The Annotated Score material -- which is only available online -- can be as long as need be since it’s not constrained by any specific physical demand. Right now it's at around 50 8 1/2 x 11 pages.

>>>P.S.:Yes you're right,that piece is from the scene when Theoden speaks about Eowyn.Could that be,partly,regarded as a rohan past history theme.It seems to me more majestic than just reffering it to Eowyn.>>>

Éowyn has three themes, all of which are intricately interrelated. One of the themes applies to just her, two apply to her relationships with other characters. They all share material in common, but are very specifically applied in the film. Watch carefully to see where these themes appear. Or, wait for the Annotated Score – that’ll walk you through each iteration.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:

Perhaps that referred to the multiple endings people claim to already see in the existing film... <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

NOW FOR MY INFORMATION - I'm sorry, I don't know the names of all the Hobbits in the story/film - in FOTR, when Gandalf comes into the Shire, we first see him followed by some young Hobbits, and he lets off some fire works, in this scene, one Hobbit is doing some gardening, and he smiles at the situation that Gandalf has presented for all the young Hobbits, and then his wife stares at him - to stop smiling. JUMP FORWARD TO ROTK where the Hobbits have finished the journey, and head back into the Shire - You will notice that *silence* abounds - Frodo and company walk by the same Hobbit in his garden, although this time, even after so long.......being away, doesn't even pull out one smile to welcome them in returning - NOT ONE SMILE - this is where the nine possible endings could have been (The Shire has been taken over and a battle rages within, and this is why the Hobbit keeps a straight face....or else....). Now considering the situation I have just written about, I believe this to be one of the endings from this point......... For me, once they reach the Shire all goes too quick for the likes of me, and I was lucky, as when I went to the theatrical edition, a young girl who I would say would have been no more than eight years old, countless numbers of times through the movie told her Mum all that was in the books and where the film was wrong to the story, even more than I could remember from the book (even though I only read the books for the first time before each cinema release)!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by Timdalf:
<<Originally posted by Beren:
Just want to heat up this dull atmosphere.>>

OK, since things are getting more and more like the Dead Marshes, here are a few questions about some things I wish had not been written:
First, my most unfavorite song of the 4 credit songs is Gollum's... I find E. Torinni's voice annoying and just WHO is singing this song... Gollum? it sounds more like a jilted lover's whine! And that is not his character, it seems to me...
Several of the lines seem really odd:
Where once was love, love is no more...
When did Gollum love anybody???
For all the lies you told us, the hurt, the blame?
Who blamed him or lied to him?
The last verse sounds like it is being sung TO Gollum, not by him...
(None of these comments refer to the music itself, of course, just the lyrics. but I would have preferred it had been left off the CR recordings, to be honest... I always skip it when I listen to the OST!)

Am I being a grumpy orc with all this??

Timdalf

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Actually I thought that Gollum's Song was Smeagol singing to Gollum. Since he is always talking to himself why not sing to himself as well?

-Chad