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Topic: LOTR Package Update?
Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs
Standard Userer
36 Days to Go...I thought about the Gondor theme...I guess it does have several renditions in "d". I was joking about Doug getting tired of talking to us...duhhhh . I do believe that he's almost done with his portion of TTT: CR. In a week or two he should be done, and he'll have more time to chat.
posted 10-02-2006 10:41 AM PT (US) gkgyver
Standard Userer
Shouldn't he be done by now? I mean, 36 days to go ...
when does the manufacturing of these things have to start in order to get them out in time?
posted 10-02-2006 01:51 PM PT (US) Timdalf
Standard Userer
Originally posted by mtrox:
>>>Just a note: pretty cheap at $56.37 on CDUniverse.com. I preordered my FOTR complete edition from them last year for an equally cheap price and have no complaints.<<<Yes, but there apparently is a $3 shipping charge which brings the price back up to the B&N price (which I assume will be the same as the Amazon and the Best Buy prices)...
So, still not a better bargain. And, of course, even if there were no discounts available, I am sure all of us here would not hesitate to gobble up our copies at list price.
Timdalf
posted 10-02-2006 01:56 PM PT (US) Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs
Standard Userer
Doug recently told us that he was almost done with the Annotated Score material. My guess is that he'll finish this week, and that'll leave about 4 weeks until it comes out. I think 4 weeks makes sense for finalizing, making, and shipping the product...but what do I know?
posted 10-02-2006 02:57 PM PT (US) Doug Adams
Standard Userer
Hi everyone,Whoah, you’ve all been busy. Sorry for my absence. Yes, I’ve been working on the Annotated Score, did some work for composer Mychael Danna, did a quick interview with Danny Elfman and assembled a Film Score Monthly Podcast. It’s been busy around here. I’m going to start answering questions right now and will update the file until I fall asleep. I’ll finish the rest tomorrow. In the meantime, please feel free to check out the Podcast, if you’re Elfman-inclined.
http://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_016.mp3Ok, keep your eyes here, I’ll keep updating for a while.
-Doug
*****
>>>Do all three of Eowyn's themes appear in TTT then? I know there's also the material for her and Merry in ROTK.>>>
I should be more specific here. Éowyn has three themes in TTT. The Merry and Éowyn material doesn’t come into play here yet, obviously. So yes, then, all three Éowyn themes are in TTT.
>>>The other major unused pieces on the OST being the opening of Forth Eorlingas, the alternate arrival of Shadowfax, the alternate in Taming of Smeagol and the middle section of Breath of Life (intended for "Arwen's Fate"?)>>>
These are other major pieces you’re already aware of. They’re really just a taste however.
>>>There's a theme specifically for Eowyn and Théoden? And yet another thing that's new to me.
But there can't be major differences between those three themes? Don't they all start with that perfect fifth leap?>>>They’re different enough to be notably separate.
>>>About the "Wonderment of Treebeard": I noticed that in Treebeard's scenes, there's some kind of electronic- sounding drone in the background, which sounds somewhat like a very distorted flute. Is there some connection to the score?>>>
That’s sound effects, not score. There are no electronic instruments anywhere in the LOTR scores.
>>>The music during Gandalf's conversation with Aragorn strongly reminds me of Gandalf's first scene with Denethor in ROTK. I suppose there's some connection ... ?>>>
No, there’s a much more specific connection than just that.
>>>Something I've mentioned to Doug in the past was about many of us "LotR score Joes" getting together with Mr. Shore, Mr. Adams, and all of those that have worked on the CR project to celebrate. This might seem very unlikely, but it's a good idea that could happen if many are interested and work together to make it happen. This would be once RotK CR/book has been released. This would be a GREAT opportunity to recognize all of those people that have worked so hard that aren't receiving the amount of recognition that they should. We would be able to meet them and find out just how they've contributed to the whole thing. We could have discussion time, hang out time, food time , etc. I like the idea. What about you-uns?>>>
If you’re interested in setting up something like this, I’d suggest you consider working through theonering.net. They’ve got considerable experience setting up things like this.
>>>The theme when Gandalf talks to Aragorn is also appearing in the opening scene when they climb down with the elven rope. You can actually hear it in the EE scene menu (of that scene)>>>
The Elven Rope music to which you’re referring contains the Evil Times theme, which is similar and related to the music used in the Gandalf / Aragorn scene, but a separate theme.
>>>And a good one for Doug:
In the FOTR EE version if you play it with commentary (the one with Howard Shore) you will hear Howard refer to the History of the Ring theme, as a Gondor theme.>>>I think Shore was sort of thinking double meta here… so to speak. I think he originally conceived of the History theme as a theme that could have potentially been written by Gondorians about the History of the Ring. He largely moved out of that mode of thought as he progressed through the series, but I think this was his starting off point.
>>>No but really, at that price I too wonder what wonderful extra gems will packed into this box set!>>>
Ok, here’s one where I’ll admit to being stumped. I don’t know where the price comes from… though, to be honest, I don’t really know where the price came from on the original release. I think the label sets it, so I’m nowhere near that picture.
>>>I have a question. Could someone identify the musical piece that plays on Disc 1, Track 1 of the complete recordings from 3:32 to 3:52? This is the score for the scene when Isildur cuts the One Ring from the hand of Sauron ending in the Dark Lord's physical destruction. It has that repeating phrase that was heard earlier when Sauron forges the One Ring and later on in the film when Boromir trys to take it from Frodo. There is also another theme playing that sounds like Aragon's. Am I on the right track? I don't remember reading about this in the liner notes, maybe I'm mistaken. It's become one of my favorite pieces of music in the score. Thanks!>>>
That’s the good ol’ down-and-back-up shape… which is contained in any number of LOTR themes. I think that’s addressed the FOTR Annotated material.
>>>But gas prices are going down!... and this is a 25% increase in the price over "Fellowship"!! OK, Doug, put on your PR hat and reassure us that this price is not just due to our increased demand!! ;-)>>>
I would tend to doubt that pretty severely. I don’t think Warners monitors this thread while hungrily rubbing its palms together. At least I hope not!
And since it’s already here for the taking… yes, the track list below is accurate. Most of the names come directly from Tolkien’s writing, from the DVD chapters or from the film’s dialogue. And just to be nice, I’ve broken it up properly for each disc.
Tracklist:
1. Glamdring
2. Elven Rope
3. Lost In Emyn Muil
4. My Precious
5. Ugluks Warriors
6. The Three Hunters
7. The Banishment Of Eomer
8. Night Camp
9. The Plains Of Rohan
10. Fangorn
11. The Dead Marshes
12. Wraiths On Wings
13. Gandalf The White
14. The Dreams Of Trees
15. The Heir Of Numenor
16. Ent-draught17. Edoras
18. The Court Of Meduseld
19. Theoden King
20. The Kings Decision
21. Exodus From Edoras
22. The Forests Of Ithilien
23. One Of The Dunedain
24. The Wolves Of Isengard
25. Refuge At Helms Deep
26.: The Voice Of Saruman
27. Arwens Fate
28. The Story Foretold
29. Sons Of The Steward
30. Rock And Pool
31. Faramirs Good Council32. Aragorns Return
33. War Is Upon Us
34. Where Is The Horse And The Rider?
35. The Host Of The Eldar
36.: The Battle Of The Hornburg
37. The Breach Of The Deeping Wall
38. The Entmoot Decides
39. Retreat
40. Master Peregrins Plan
41. The Last March Of The Ents
42. The Nazgul Attack
43. Theoden Rides Forth
44. The Tales That Really Matter
45. Long Ways To Go YetNow, to be honest, there are a few “featuring…” subtitles missing here, but I’ll leave those to the spies among you to discover!
>>>Shouldn't "Gollum's Song" be at the end there...or maybe it is included in the last track.>>>
Gollum’s song is contained within “Long Way To Go…” That’s one of the “Featuring…” that’s missing.
>>>-----Would you recommend me to buy the first single disc releases, for sake of different music?>>>
Depends on how much of a completeist you are. As was the case with Fellowship, there will be a few seconds of music on the OST that will not be on the boxed set… only because the OST presented an early version of something that was later revised. Shadowfax’s appearance springs to mind.
>>>----- Doug, you mention here that we will eventually get non-final versions of the music, do you mean in the supplementary/rarities disc(possibilities)/s?>>>
That is what I’m referring to, yep.
>>>-----Doug, another thing, I know we are all very excited about the up and coming release, and we know (or at least I do) that you can't give out too much information, but would you be able to (well this might sound a bit ridiculous, and unjustifiable), lets just say, if you know the exact time, and can't give it out, by all means don't ruin your career, but as you say it is longer than TFOTR:CR, each time that you post some information would it be possible to tease and excite the readers by uping the time, by saying that it is longer than a specific time????? (lets say Post 1 - more than 180:30, Post 2 - more than 181:30 etc etc), and yet still leaving a huge gap between the time you post, to the time that it actually is.>>>
This is a great idea, but to be honest, with my schedule as it is right now, I’d probably do this so sporadically that it wouldn’t accomplish anything other than making people irritated with me.
>>>Question for Doug - though I may have asked this a long time ago and had you answer it. Do you know if Howard Shore wrote music for the 'Second Council of Galadriel' scene when it was still in the film? 'The Leavetaking' is the cue that most clearly corresponds to what material from that sequence ended up in the final film... but did he score the sequence in its earliest version - when Arwen and Elrond go to Lothlorien? I ask this because I've heard references to music that was originally written for a scene where Arwen looks into the 'Mirror of Galadriel'.>>>To the best of my knowledge, neither scene was ever scored.
>>>If those 45 tracks are correct, then I would guess that disc 1 will have 15 tracks, disc 2-17 tracks, and disc 3-13 tracks. We'll find out soon. It's good to know that Shore's website is finally "up and running". Yay! I'm still working on trying to figure out Eowyn's themes/Rohan material. I thought there were only 3 or 4 themes for Rohan, but I think there are about 6 or 7...?>>>
In TTT there are… sort of four-and-a-half Rohan themes total.
>>>I'm scared about something..."they're coming...no...No!...NOOOOO!!!"........uh, just kidding (about that ^ ). Seriously though, I love the "nice ending" to the OST track 16 - Forth Eorlingas. I hate the film version where (because of the editing, of course) the "ending" of tr16 goes immediately to the "Flooding" music without finishing. Now, I'm BASING this on the 45-long track list, ASSUMING it's the right one. Track 43 to 44, by name, sounds like there's no "Flooding" music, but it's obviously there, AND, it "has" to be at the end of 43, not the beginning of 44. Please reassure me that on the CR, the music going from the Helm's Deep battle to the "Flooding" will NOT sound like the film version. I'm...scared...*sniff*...help me Doug Adams, you're my only hope... I'm hoping there's some more "transitional" music or something there that sounds good. I'm sure there is.>>>
>>>Yes. These are exactly the kind of things I had hoped the CRs would "fix". Obviously, FOTR didn't have much of those since it's a linear movie, but TTT and ROTK have several storylines, and the edits that were made are hopefully not on the CRs.>>>
The “Forth Eorlingas” ending you hear on the OST is a created ending, meaning it only exists through editing. You are not really hearing the end of the composition, you are hearing something that was edited together artificially create an ending. (You can sort of tell if you listen to the beginning of the suspended cymbal hit…) It’s done incredibly well, and it suits the needs of the OST’s shorter running time, but it is not what Howard Shore composed.
The idea behind the CR project is most certainly to present what Shore composed. There will be no messing around with the order of the passages, because that’s pretty contrary to the project’s purpose. Shore wrote the music to the end of the film in *nearly* the same order it appears in the finished film. There was a little tweaking for a few of the Osgiliath cutaways, and tweaks have been restored to Shore’s original vision for the CR. But don’t expect someone to go slicing away to create a recording in which all the Isengard scenes are grouped together, all the Helm’s Deep scenes are grouped together and all the Osgiliath scenes are grouped together. The shape of Shore’s composition very carefully reflects what’s happening on screen… his transitions and balances were very intricately thought out, and there’s no desire to upset that with a bunch of harsh editing and artificial assembly. Personally, I think it’s absolutely amazing that Shore was able to delineate three different stories so clearly and dramatically – it’s a real juggling act. I would feel just awful if all that were tossed by the wayside for a gimmicky purpose.
>>>I wonder, in the ROTK there is an unused scene were Aragorn is wearing the Gondorian armor. Did Howard Shore score this scene? Because the Music in the TTT were Aragorn is wearing the Rohirrim armor in Helm’s Deep is Fantastic! Very dynamic and epic.>>>
The assembly on ROTK begins soon, so we’ll be ale to take a closer look at questions like that very soon!
>>>About the edits on TTT: all along I thought we would get the full pieces that were recorded and how they were recorded, not necessarily how they were split up or edited together in the film. At least that's what Doug and the press release promised all along, "the full pieces how they were recorded". And that would also include Forth Eorlingas with the clean ending.>>>As you seen above, in this case, the “clean” ending is false ending. The CR will actually present, for the first time on CD, the ending as it was written and recorded.
>>>(*****Now Doug....when Gandalf introduces himself, on Disc 1 51:10 to 51:36, is this missing music, as if you listen to Disc 2 during the end credits (not the fan credits) 1:47:49 to 1:48:46, you will notice that the end credits have a longer vocal version, or is this longer version just composed for the end credits?*****)>>>
You will hear the full piece on CD. Nothing new was composed for TTT’s fan scroll.
>>>onwards, riddle, Gandalf's whistle for Shadowfax (**Is this included in the score?**)>>>
Ha! No, no whistling in the score!
>>>Orc horns at the Black gate (***Are these horns in the score?***)>>>
No, sir.
>>>(****Now during the scene just before Frodo covers Sam and himself, if you know most of HS scores, this sounds like what he would develop into David Cronenberg's A History Of Violence, and I was wondering, do you know the distance between HS scoring this and AHOV?****),>>>
Shore likes stepwise writing. Just showing his fingerprints, that’s all.
>>>(****Doug, is this extended on the CR, as it seems cut as though it wasn't finished (or edited down) properly?****)>>>
They’re pretty similar.
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-02-2006]
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-03-2006]
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-03-2006]
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-03-2006]
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-02-2006 07:58 PM PT (US) THX 1138 4eb
Standard Userer
-Doug
*****
>for sake of different music?<
Depends on how much of a completeist you are.
*****I am a completist, thankyou....I shall go forth and buy (Although...I know there was a second release with an alternate ending song on one of the soundtracks, and do you know if this will be on the rarities disc?!!!!)....when discounts arise, and trust me, they do, here in South Australia....*****supplementary/rarities disc(possibilities)/s?
>>That is what I’m referring to, yep.<<
*****Do you know if it will be more than one disc in length, and also do you know if a DVD will be included, as the CRs have?*****>(lets say Post 1 - more than 180:30, Post 2 - more than 181:30 etc etc), and yet still leaving a huge gap between the time you post, to the time that it actually is.<
<<This is a great idea, but to be honest, with my schedule as it is right now, I’d probably do this so sporadically that it wouldn’t accomplish anything other than making people irritated with me.>>
*****Hey.....thanks for mentioning it, I appreciate your feedback. ---- You will obviously keep us guessing!!!!!----*****The CR will actually present, for the first time on CD, the ending as it was written and recorded.
*****Are you referring to what is heard in one of the documentaries, where PJ tells HS that he doesn't feel the music has the right feeling for the characters, and so he has to rearrange it?*****Ok guys, that’s gonna do me in for the night. More tomorrow.
-Doug
DOUG YOU ARE A CHAMP!!!!!!!!
THANKS FOR KEEPING US ALL INFORMED!!!!!!
WORDS CANNOT DESCRIBE OUR GRATITUDE, APPRECIATION AND GRATEFULNESS TOWARDS YOU!!!!!!
THANKYOU!!!![Message edited by THX 1138 4eb on 10-02-2006]
posted 10-02-2006 10:54 PM PT (US) tomandshell
Non-Standard Userer
TTT is up for preorder at Amazon.com for zero percent off the MSRP of $75.98:
http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings -Towers-Complete-Recordings/dp/B000IZJZIK/sr=8-2/qid=1159851715/ref=sr_1_2/002-4938206-0632827?ie=UTF8&s=musicIf you order now and their price goes down between now and the time it ships, they will automatically reduce the price for your order. (I'm hoping they give some sort of discount on this as I don't want to pay more than $20 over the FOTR price unless I absolutely have to.)
[Message edited by tomandshell on 10-02-2006]
[Message edited by tomandshell on 10-02-2006]
posted 10-02-2006 11:13 PM PT (US) Shire Bagginz
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by THX 1138 4eb:
(Although...I know there was a second release with an alternate ending song on one of the soundtracks, and do you know if this will be on the rarities disc?!!!!)Well for the Limited Edition Two Towers OST, a track from the Fellowship Extended Edition was added at the end. The track called "Farewell to Lorien" is comprised of material written for the gift giving scene in the FOTR EE. This new material however appears in the FOTR CR in the track called "The Fighting Uruk-Hai" starting around 2:29 and ending around 6:20. So if you already have the FOTR CR, then you already have the piece. The only difference is that the track on Limited TT OST cuts off and is mixed with the choral piece for Aragorn's mother, which appears at the beginning of "Gilraen's Memorial" (such an awsome track!!!)
posted 10-02-2006 11:33 PM PT (US) ChrisAfonso
Non-Standard Userer
Also two tracks have been slightly shortened to fit the bonus track on the cd... there are a few seconds missing from "The Uruk-Hai" and "The Black Gate is closed". So if you already have the FotR CR (and therefore the bonus track), get the normal TTT release instead. Unless (like me) you're a sucker for the stylish packaging of the LEThe RotK LE is a must buy though, because of the bonus DVD, which contains "Use well these days", the alternate ending song.
posted 10-03-2006 06:44 AM PT (US) Beren
Standard Userer
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Doug Adams:The “Forth Eorlingas” ending you hear on the OST is a created ending, meaning it only exists through editing. You are not really hearing the end of the composition, you are hearing something that was edited together artificially create an ending. (You can sort of tell if you listen to the beginning of the suspended cymbal hit…) It’s done incredibly well, and it suits the needs of the OST’s shorter running time, but it is not what Howard Shore composed.
The idea behind the CR project is most certainly to present what Shore composed. There will be no messing around with the order of the passages, because that’s pretty contrary to the project’s purpose. Shore wrote the music to the end of the film in *nearly* the same order it appears in the finished film. There was a little tweaking for a few of the Osgiliath cutaways, and tweaks have been restored to Shore’s original vision for the CR. But don’t expect someone to go slicing away to create a recording in which all the Isengard scenes are grouped together, all the Helm’s Deep scenes are grouped together and all the Osgiliath scenes are grouped together. The shape of Shore’s composition very carefully reflects what’s happening on screen… his transitions and balances were very intricately thought out, and there’s no desire to upset that with a bunch of harsh editing and artificial assembly. Personally, I think it’s absolutely amazing that Shore was able to delineate three different stories so clearly and dramatically – it’s a real juggling act. I would feel just awful if all that were tossed by the wayside for a gimmicky purpose.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>So,what you're saying is that we'll hear chopped pieces like the last seconds of music from "Strider" where,originally,the adunaic choir followed,but was changed for the CR,the choir continuing in "The Nazgul" after a minute or so.
P.S.:Thank you for the update.And the new list of tracks.
[Message edited by Beren on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 06:45 AM PT (US) ChrisAfonso
Non-Standard Userer
Huh? I think Doug just said that places we think are original are indeed "chopped" for the OST, so the CR will contain the original version, unusual though it may sound for some of us.
posted 10-03-2006 06:51 AM PT (US) gkgyver
Standard Userer
I see, I see, there are alot of things I don't know yet. I never even considered that the CD track Forth Eorlingas could be the edited piece.
But as you must know by now, we tend to be a hypercritical bunch of peopleThanks for the elaborate seesion once again. And great Elfman podcast btw
[Message edited by gkgyver on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 06:59 AM PT (US) Incanus
Standard Userer
Thank you for finding time to post here even though you have been busy Doug! I loved that podcast about Elfman's Serenada Schizophrana. I definitely have to check that piece out. It sounded interesting.
Glad to hear that the Annotated Score is coming along well. Keep up the good work!Over a month of waiting is still ahead of us. This is excruciating but we will have to manage somehow
Wow this new thread has over 200 posts already! I wonder how many there are before we get to the 7th of November?
[Message edited by Incanus on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 07:57 AM PT (US) Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs
Standard Userer
35 Days to Go...Thank you so much, Doug. You're a hard-working man with a great attitude! We really do appreciate it. I'll see about talking with theOneRing.net people about us being able to get together sometime. Another question...can you PLEASE tell us how many new themes there are in TTT: CR? Please? Pretty please?
posted 10-03-2006 08:19 AM PT (US) Doug Adams
Standard Userer
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Another question...can you PLEASE tell us how many new themes there are in TTT: CR? Please? Pretty please? [/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>A few new updates are above, for those interested. (Updates also below. I'll answer this one later this afternoon.)
Thanks! Do you mean how many themes appear in TTT that did not appear anywhere in FOTR in any way?
-Doug
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 08:24 AM PT (US) Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs
Standard Userer
Yes, Doug! I mean that! Brand new to TTT: CR! Not in FOTR!
posted 10-03-2006 08:27 AM PT (US) gkgyver
Standard Userer
I've got a question about ROTK that you may be able to answer already: Howard Shore said that the first time you hear the Minas Tirith theme in ROTK is when Aragorn is given Anduril.
But we already hear it during the forging of the sword. Now I wondered if the Minas Tirith theme was actually tracked into that forging scene.
posted 10-03-2006 09:35 AM PT (US) Doug Adams
Standard Userer
Hi guys,I moved the next reponse down here.
-Doug
*****
>>>Boromir - Gondor theme (****Doug.....is there any music missing During Boromir's speech****),>>>
Nothing missing here, no.
(****While Gollum is killing the fish, is his singing featured in CR?****),
Gollum will not sing on this recording. That one got a good hard look, but ultimately, it didn’t work.
(******I don't know about all you readers, but I would quite admire the people at work if they included the screeches the Nazgul give, as I think it adds to the impact******)
No SFX on the disc.
(*****Doug, do we hear the horn Gimli blows into?*****)
Nope, that was SFX, not score, so that’ll remain in the film.
>>>DOUG, it seems to me that the key of D (both major and minor) is the most important in all 3 scores. Is this true? I know it's used a lot for the Shire material and Ringwraith theme, but also for the Fellowship, Mordor material, Isengard material, and some One Ring material.>>>
The key of D is certainly quite important for the LOTR scores, but primarily in the Shire and Mordor music. And, honestly, it’s not used for much of an extra-musical purpose. Shore like’s the fact that the key of D put certain instruments in certain ranges, thus he uses it as an element of his orchestration. That said, there is certainly something to the fact that the Shire and Mordor music—the polar opposites in the score—are both in D… as is the Seduction of the Ring, the theme that would link the Shire and Mordor if it could.
>>>Doug ......tired of "talking" to us, I don't think so, all us readers and HS are what drives him to do what he is doing, I don't see how anyone could avoid talking to their customers who love what they are doing.........>>>
I hope you know that no one is ever thought of as “the customers.” “The audience,” perhaps. Or, “Listeners.” But never as anything so crass as the Money-Spending-Public. That’s not an element of this project.
>>>I've got a question about ROTK that you may be able to answer already: Howard Shore said that the first time you hear the Minas Tirith theme in ROTK is when Aragorn is given Anduril.
But we already hear it during the forging of the sword. Now I wondered if the Minas Tirith theme was actually tracked into that forging scene.>>>I think he just means it’s the first time you’ve heard it in this florid, fully developed setting. Remember, this one links all the way back to FOTR. The forging scene is not tracked. Neither is the “Gandalf sees the White Tree” scene.
>>>Doug recently told us that he was almost done with the Annotated Score material. My guess is that he'll finish this week, and that'll leave about 4 weeks until it comes out. I think 4 weeks makes sense for finalizing, making, and shipping the product...but what do I know?>>>
I received Annotated notes last night, so am making edits today. It should be ready for final formatting in the near future. And the wheels are already turning on ROTK, so we’ll pretty much dive directly into that.
Also, had a big meeting on the book last week, so that’s moving forward as well. Beware!
[Message edited by Doug Adams on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 09:55 AM PT (US) Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs
Standard Userer
Oh, DOUGGGGG! You didn't answer my question about how many new themes there are in TTT: CR?
posted 10-03-2006 10:31 AM PT (US) Beren
Standard Userer
Thank you again.It's also nice to hear about the fast-approaching development of ROTK:CR.
posted 10-03-2006 12:35 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Adams:
>>>And a good one for Doug:
In the FOTR EE version if you play it with commentary (the one with Howard Shore) you will hear Howard refer to the History of the Ring theme, as a Gondor theme.>>>I think Shore was sort of thinking double meta here… so to speak. I think he originally conceived of the History theme as a theme that could have potentially been written by Gondorians about the History of the Ring. He largely moved out of that mode of thought as he progressed through the series, but I think this was his starting off point.
Thanks for answering my own question - I have a vague feeling it's the same answer as last time. I am very interested by your comment about Shore 'thinking double meta' here... That's a fascinating comment when you look at it that way - a very literal form of writing music that could have been written by the inhabitants of the diegesis.
I hope your book has a chance to talk about this idea a bit (it's too big to delve into here) - how his approach changed from purely writing music that could have been produced by the culture it described to a more general approach to underscoring within tight parameters (restricting its use of more modern devices - syncopation, counterpoint, etc). Perhaps he felt initially he was overthinking the problem...
posted 10-03-2006 02:50 PM PT (US) Shire Bagginz
Standard Userer
So I just reserved a copy in my name at Barnes and Noble, that will be ready to pick up on Nov. 7. With the 10% members discount bringing the total down to $54.70, I can't really go wrong. Gotta love asking the clerk at the store for it. Takes for ever to say the whole title... "Ya uh, I'd like to save a copy of The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers Complete Recordings by Howard Shore please". "Could you repeat that sir" Which I respond in my head saying "I can't believe you are not in the know about these wonderful gems of music".
The release date feels a little closer now that I have a copy saved for me, although there's still 35 days to go yet.
The track names are already starting to grow on me. I liked them alright at first, but now I like them a lot more, especially:
1. Glamdring
13. Gandalf The White
14. The Dreams Of Trees (flows very well)
41. The Last March Of The EntsThanks Doug for the updates and also for that great podcast on Elfman's Serenada Schizophrana (which I just picked up today and can't wait to listen to).
[Message edited by Shire Bagginz on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 02:54 PM PT (US) Doug Adams
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>>>You didn't answer my question about how many new themes there are in TTT: CR? >>>Roughly 18. Some contain connections to old themes, and there a few recurring passages that don’t really qualify as themes, per se, but I think 18 gives you the right idea.
>>>Thanks for answering my own question - I have a vague feeling it's the same answer as last time. I am very interested by your comment about Shore 'thinking double meta' here... That's a fascinating comment when you look at it that way - a very literal form of writing music that could have been written by the inhabitants of the diegesis.
I hope your book has a chance to talk about this idea a bit (it's too big to delve into here) - how his approach changed from purely writing music that could have been produced by the culture it described to a more general approach to underscoring within tight parameters (restricting its use of more modern devices - syncopation, counterpoint, etc). Perhaps he felt initially he was overthinking the problem...>>>
Well, I don’t know that you would be able accurately label it as a change in approach, necessarily. I think the “double meta” period was attached to Shore’s creative period – the period in which he crafted the material out of which the score was woven. He spent many months in this period for each film. But this quasi-diegetic concept only applied to the creation of material. The application of material was more traditional in approach. In a way, I think that this was one of the keys to LOTR’s success, because the combination of approaches makes it an incredibly immersive piece of work.
You bring up great points as always, Michael.
-Doug
posted 10-03-2006 03:26 PM PT (US) gkgyver
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Oh, you lucky people in the US; or UK.Never, ever would something like Elfman's Serenada Schizophrana be officially released over here.
posted 10-03-2006 03:30 PM PT (US) Olorin
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{{{{>>>Orc horns at the Black gate (***Are these horns in the score?***)>>>No, sir.}}}
Well, I hope and pray that the horns of the Rohirrim will be in the ROTK CR for their charge on Minas Tirith! I will cry if they're not.
posted 10-03-2006 05:57 PM PT (US) *Tom*
Non-Standard Userer
You'd better have a pile of tissues ready then.
posted 10-03-2006 07:07 PM PT (US) THX 1138 4eb
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-Doug
*****>>>You will hear the full piece on CD. Nothing new was composed for TTT’s fan scroll.
*****Doug, I was refering to the fact that the End Credits feature more score than the actual scene, I'm sure you know this.*****
>>>Ha! No, no whistling in the score!
>>>No, sir.
>>>Shore likes stepwise writing. Just showing his fingerprints, that’s all.
>>>They’re pretty similar
>>>Nothing missing here, no.
>>>Gollum will not sing on this recording. That one got a good hard look, but ultimately, it didn’t work.
>>>No SFX on the disc.
>>>Nope, that was SFX, not score, so that’ll remain in the film.*****Thankyou Doug, and sorry for asking so many question....but I needed to know!!!! *****
>>>Doug ......tired of "talking" to us, I don't think so, all us readers and HS are what drives him to do what he is doing, I don't see how anyone could avoid talking to their customers who love what they are doing.........>>>
>>>I hope you know that no one is ever thought of as “the customers.” “The audience,” perhaps. Or, “Listeners.” But never as anything so crass as the Money-Spending-Public. That’s not an element of this project.
*****Sorry....I know.....but I also said us "readers", again, I was thinking too fast when I originally wrote it, and in any case, you have just proved my point.....that people like you **care** .....THANK YOU.....*****
>>>Also, had a big meeting on the book last week, so that’s moving forward as well. Beware!
VERY.. ..EXCITING.....
*****Doug, do you at all know how many pages of notes HS wrote, that makes up each complete recordings, and in the book, will we get examples, or even the whole lot?....just joking about the last bit...but you know how excited we all get.....or will we get everything.....!!!******
THANKS AGAIN....AND AGAIN...AND AGAIN...AND AGAIN......AND AGAIN.....
[Message edited by THX 1138 4eb on 10-03-2006]
posted 10-03-2006 07:39 PM PT (US) franz_conrad
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Adams:
You bring up great points as always, Michael.And you prompt the raising of them. My hat off to you sir!
posted 10-03-2006 07:54 PM PT (US) vdemona
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Thank you much, Doug! The info you bring sustains us in a sea of nervous anticipation!Ok that was awful, I know, but thanks!
posted 10-03-2006 08:40 PM PT (US) TheTennisBallKid
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Plan 9's website: http://www.plan9music.co.nz/plan9_home.htmIt was being asked about a while back, and I just ran across it tonight...
posted 10-03-2006 09:04 PM PT (US) Beren
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Thanks again Doug.It's amazing how fast you are repplying to us.
posted 10-03-2006 10:01 PM PT (US) gkgyver
Standard Userer
Little idea: until TTT comes out, why don't we gather all the edits that were made on FOTR? And by that I mean in the film AND the CR. By making my own iso- score, I constantly find more.For instance, I never realised that a good part of "Strider" isn't even in the film.
posted 10-04-2006 02:29 PM PT (US) Matthijs
Standard Userer
Sometimes I'm really wondering : does Doug still has time to watch television in his couch and relax? (not thinking about all the things he has to do the day after)Thanks a lot for the great info Doug. Can't wait for the release date for Belgium!
posted 10-04-2006 02:30 PM PT (US) EldarionSonOfElessar
Standard Userer
I wonder when the track times are announced...Well, we already know one of them: Disk One, Track Eight is 2:54.
posted 10-04-2006 07:07 PM PT (US) gkgyver
Standard Userer
Ok, I'll start with the list, since I'm almost halfway through with my IsoScore (+ dialogue snippets)."Prologue: One Ring To Rule Them All"
- the sustained note at 1:56 has been shortened for the album
- the bass drum strokes at 2:46 are a little differently placed in the film"The Shire"
no edits here
"Bag End"
- the Hobbit pizzicato at 1:06 has been either looped four times for the film, or it's been cut down for the album
- somewhere between 1:30 and 1:45 a chord has been stretched for the movie
- at 2:53, the Hobbit pizzicato was looped again for the film"Very Old Friends"
- the Hobbit pizzicato at 0:24 begins a little earlier in the film
- the chord at 2:38 has been shortened for the film"Flaming Red Hair"
duh!
"Farewell Dear Bilbo"
no edits
"Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe!"
- at 7:14, one or two bars were cut for the album
"A Conspiracy Unmasked"
- the chords from 0:48- 1:00 have longer pauses in between in the film
- the chord at 1:33- 1:38 is not in the film
- the movie has the descending third motif playing here, so it's either tracked in or it was cut for the album
- the ring theme from 2:45- 3:10 isn't in the film
- the portion from 6:02 to the end isn't in the film"Three Is Company"
no edits
"The Passing Of The Elves"
Duh! again
"Saruman The White"
- the chord at 0:40 is longer in the film it seems
- a little something has been cut out for the film, I guess a little ostinato, but that doesn't amount to anything over one second
- the choir has been removed from the film version and the album, at least parts of it"A Shortcut To Mushrooms"
no edits
"Strider"
- 0:19- 0:34 tracked, in both, film and album
- 0:43- 1:21 are not in the movie
- the building piece at 2:05 has been shortened for the film by roughly 5 seconds
- 1:52- 2:15 tracked, in both, film and album"Weathertop"
- 1:21- 1:41 the choir has been removed
- 1:42- end not in the movie"The Caverns Of Isengard"
- the 5/4 beat has been either cut down for the album or looped for the film several times at 3:27
"Give Up The Halfling"
- the aleatoric horn piece at 3:27 is not in the film, but
- the horn piece from 3:33- 3:57 is"Orthanc"
no edits
"Rivendell"
no edits
So far, so good.
posted 10-04-2006 07:10 PM PT (US) gkgyver
Standard Userer
Hm, I don't know if track times can be officially released. It's pretty much up to the individual sites to post them, non? I don't remember how it worked with FOTR.I think Doug told us. Is that correct, Mr. Adams?
But who keeps track of track times? No pun intended, I'm just German.posted 10-04-2006 07:23 PM PT (US) TheTennisBallKid
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The track times showed up when Soundtrack.net got a copy of the FOTR set.
Nice work looking for edits.posted 10-04-2006 07:34 PM PT (US) vdemona
Standard Userer
quote:
Originally posted by TheTennisBallKid:
Plan 9's website: http://www.plan9music.co.nz/plan9_home.htmIt was being asked about a while back, and I just ran across it tonight...
Hey this is awesome! Thanks! I remember asking about them awhile back!
posted 10-04-2006 07:38 PM PT (US) Cavalier_of_Palahndtüs
Standard Userer
33 Days to Go...(34 yesterday )I hope we'll be satisfied with the "edits" for TTT: CR. There are a few small dissapointments in FOTR: CR...(liked TRACKED music ).
posted 10-05-2006 06:24 AM PT (US) weyhoops
Standard Userer
What was the reasoning behind the tracked music in "Strider"? I can no longer recall.
posted 10-05-2006 07:31 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB