something just occurred to me...throughout the scores, Howard Shore utilized practically every orchestral instrument he had access to, plus voices, plus special instruments. The only thing I don't hear is a saxophone...

From seeing it during the Symphony, I know that bits and pieces of the scores have a piano in it. I remember that because the lady of the LPO who played it in London three years ago looked kinda bored...I think she had only low notes to play as accentuation of, for example, the 5/4 ostinato. You can best hear it during 'Parth Galen', from 6:05 onward.

Now, I am intrigued...in which other parts did Mr Shore orchestrate the piano in? There is something that sounds like a grand piano, again in low ranges, during the orchestral swells in 'A Shortcut to Mushrooms' (2:03 an onward), but I am not sure. Does anybody else hear it?

Update: I've listened to it again and the best place to hear it is between 3:19 and around 3:27 of Fangorn. the low rumbling seems to be just the piano and timpani

Has anyone heard any information on Howard Shore's 'The Last Mimzy'???

Doug, I suppose you might know about this..., any information????

How is your work on ROTK:CR coming along????

Hope to hear from you soon..........the silence is quite scary!!!!!

Please take off your 'ring', and come back to this message board, or you might be corrupted, and never come back..........

DOOOUUUUUGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, I’m still here, and yep we’re still full steam ahead. I’m sorry my posting has been so infrequent right now, just happened to be getting slammed with work at the moment.

The first edit of the ROTK discs is now done, tweaks are ongoing, I’m digging through liners, working through the book material and prepping multimedia material. Coupled with some projects of my own, February promises to be a little crazy, but survivable I’m quite sure.

Last Mimzy has been recorded and is just about ready to go. Shore worked with Roger Waters on a song for this one, a brief clip of which you can hear here:
http://newlinerecords.com/pages/mimzy/rogerwatersplayer.htm

I promise I’ll try and backtrack and get to some questions as soon as I can come up for air.

Oh and that first edit of ROTK….

…AMAZING!!

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:

Oh and that first edit of ROTK….

…AMAZING!!

-Doug

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One of these days, I am going to get a pod, plant it under your bed, and switch my mind into your body. It will look like you, walk like you, talk like you...but it will be ME!

That way, I could ask Mr Shore to have a look at the snare-drum part at the beginning of "The Breach of the Deeping Wall". For the life of me, I can't figure this one out.

Thanks for the update, Doug.

CK

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and prepping multimedia material

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...AMAZING!!

-Doug<<<

DOUGO LIVES!!! He has not been taken by the Enemy!!!

As to that first edit: We indeed expect nothing less!!! THIS wait will be the killer!! Because of how glorious we know the music will be... And so it begins!

OK, question #1 on everyone's mind: How loooong is the first edit? As in "the longer the better"!!

Do keep us posted on progress, pleeeze! And maybe some behind the scenes glimpses every now and then? As regards both your and Maestro Shore's modes of proceeding... Give us a peek over your shoulders as things now begin reaching the End of All Things...

Timdalf

I do wonder, however, what goes on exactly when Doug says "the first rough edit" is done. I mean, there aren't that many possibilities to arrange the music.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
The OST version wasn't used, and the film version, as far as I can hear, has a huge amount of tracked music and edits in it.

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THAT'S an understatement!

Hey Doug, any news yet concerning the packaging/design/artwork of your book? I mean, obviously you can't give out any information, but there's definitely a lot of stuff decided upon. At least that's what you'd said back in December...so just a suggestion.

Maybe we can have a 4th box, just like the current CR sets, that contains a DVD and CD of the "rarities" music, and another DVD with the multimedia content. (This time its the CDs turn to be stuck on the annoying rubber nub) and the DVDs will be in the case. Of course, there'll be a small book with liners for the rarities music.

Maybe you could call the box set, "The Lord of the Rings - The Incomplete Recordings". The box could be white with the beautiful writing in gold.

And accompanying it will be your book that should look just like the liner books, except that its huge and deluxe hardcover.

AND accompanying EVERYTHING will be an antiquated brown box into which we can slip all 4 (yes 4) CR and IR(Incomplete Recordings) sets.

And just another greedy suggestion. What about the music that was written but not scored? Maybe Mr.Shore will wake up one morning and say: "That's gonna go on the IR set".

This is probably going to be the last bit of music we ever get from LOTR, so might as well make it big...unless Mr.Shore scores The Hobbit.

Phew, that was a lot...but worth it

Edit: Oh yes! And I'm back. I'm shameless. I'm a sucker for CR.

And hey Doug, How u doin? Seems I didnt miss much, just a switch to another new thread.

And hello again Christian, Magpie, Beren Beren , gkgyver, ALL.

Actually, there are plenty of options; different takes, different versions of the film... not to mention that because ROTK was still being extensively re-edited during the scoring process, there were a lot of changes made to the music (which is one of the reasons why the score has so many jarring edits in the film mix).

You’re gonna need a LOT of coffee, let me warn you now!

>>>That way, I could ask Mr Shore to have a look at the snare-drum part at the beginning of "The Breach of the Deeping Wall". For the life of me, I can't figure this one out.>>>

What is it about this snare part that you’re trying to figure out?

>>>Great news! I assume that this is for the book?>>>

You are correct, yep. We’re looking at a pretty amazingly extensive multimedia supplement right now. Plenty of technicalities to work out, but as of right now I think we’ve got something like you’ve never seen / heard before.

>>>OK, question #1 on everyone's mind: How loooong is the first edit? As in "the longer the better"!!>>>

As promised, four very full discs.

>>>Do keep us posted on progress, pleeeze! And maybe some behind the scenes glimpses every now and then? As regards both your and Maestro Shore's modes of proceeding... Give us a peek over your shoulders as things now begin reaching the End of All Things...>>>

Heh, I’ll do my best.

>>>I do wonder, however, what goes on exactly when Doug says "the first rough edit" is done. I mean, there aren't that many possibilities to arrange the music.>>>

Swashbuckler does a great job of explaining this below. I’ll only add that there are also a lot of decisions to make regarding unused material… if something wasn’t actually in the film and there are several different overdubs to choose from, which one is the most satisfying? And how does that fit in with the surroundings with regard to flow?

>>>Oh, and by the way, Doug, can we expect anything brand new for the destruction of Mordor? The OST version wasn't used, and the film version, as far as I can hear, has a huge amount of tracked music and edits in it.>>>

You will hear the complete, unaltered destruction of Mordor!

>>>Hey Doug, any news yet concerning the packaging/design/artwork of your book? I mean, obviously you can't give out any information, but there's definitely a lot of stuff decided upon. At least that's what you'd said back in December...so just a suggestion.
Maybe we can have a 4th box, just like the current CR sets, that contains a DVD and CD of the "rarities" music, and another DVD with the multimedia content. (This time its the CDs turn to be stuck on the annoying rubber nub) and the DVDs will be in the case. Of course, there'll be a small book with liners for the rarities music.

Maybe you could call the box set, "The Lord of the Rings - The Incomplete Recordings". The box could be white with the beautiful writing in gold.

And accompanying it will be your book that should look just like the liner books, except that its huge and deluxe hardcover.

AND accompanying EVERYTHING will be an antiquated brown box into which we can slip all 4 (yes 4) CR and IR(Incomplete Recordings) sets.>>>

There have been some very early talks about what form the book should take, just in terms of how to make everything physically approachable. But beyond that, the design hasn’t been too intricately discussed—yet! I do have someone in mind that I would love to have on the project, but we will have to see what can be worked out.

>>>And just another greedy suggestion. What about the music that was written but not scored? Maybe Mr.Shore will wake up one morning and say: "That's gonna go on the IR set".>>>

Do you mean written but not recorded, or written but not set to the film?

>>>And hey Doug, How u doin? Seems I didnt miss much, just a switch to another new thread.>>>

I’m good, thanks, as I hope is everyone else as well. I’m constantly bemoaning the busy schedule right now, but that’s probably more due to the bleak midwinter than to anything else!

More later,

-Doug

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
(...) I do have someone in mind that I would love to have on the project, but we will have to see what can be worked out. (...)

More later,

-Doug

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I want my reward for six years of studying.

Four very full discs! [salivates]

Can't wait to hear/see/read more details of this release coming down the road. Thanks for the tidbits, Doug!

>>>As promised, four very full discs.

>Do keep us posted on progress, pleeeze! And maybe some behind the scenes glimpses every now and then? As regards both your and Maestro Shore's modes of proceeding... Give us a peek over your shoulders as things now begin reaching the End of All Things...>

Heh, I’ll do my best.

More later,

-Doug<<<

I am sure you will come up with some really fascinating tidbits of how the actual process of editing the score is done and then how you and M. Shore interact to come up with such a remarkable final result of audio and text...

Now, as to "four very full discs..."
Let's see... wild speculation time: "full discs" would mean, say, 60 min. per., "full to bursting discs" would be 80 min. per. So "VERY full discs" might just possibly mean about 65-70 min per... times 4, means about 260/280 minutes or about 4 hrs and 20/40 min. or about 10/30 minutes longer than the EV of the film... hmmmm... Could it be that there will be more music than could be fitted into the film?... Vaarry interestink! And most promising!!! What has they gots up their sleeveses, my prrreshuss, we wonders!?........

But I've already started saving, so YAY.

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Swashbuckler does a great job of explaining this below. I’ll only add that there are also a lot of decisions to make regarding unused material… if something wasn’t actually in the film and there are several different overdubs to choose from, which one is the most satisfying? And how does that fit in with the surroundings with regard to flow?

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The question now is: do you want to give us the whole, unaltered recording, or the film edits?

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I imagine that there are multiple recordings of pieces in various configurations depending on the cut of the film at the time.

At the end of the day it probably comes down to Howard Shore's personal preference as to which version to include.

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The question now is: do you want to give us the whole, unaltered recording, or the film edits?

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One example everybody knows by now is Gandalf's ride to Minas Tirith. We all know that Gandalf originally saved Faramir when he arrived at Minas Tirith, and the OST gives us that version. And if the ROTK CR is supposed to contain the music how it was recorded, it would have to feature the OST version. But that conflicts with the idea of making the CRs represent the storytelling of the movie.

I can say in all honesty, no one knows yet. Shore has ideas, Warners / Reprise has ideas, we’re trying to find a good way to interlock additional released (i.e. the book)… so the truth is, decisions have not yet been finalized. It’ll be this year, that much is for certain.

>>>I'm going to hand in my diploma-thesis on Sept. 30th, so see to it the thing comes out the next day.>>>

On a Monday, huh?

>>>Four very full discs! [salivates]

Pretty amazingly extensive multimedia supplement! [salivates again]>>>

Just for clarity’s sake, the multimedia is intended for the book release, not the ROTK:CR release. Not that it much matters, I suppose. *coughbuythebookcough*

>>>I am sure you will come up with some really fascinating tidbits of how the actual process of editing the score is done and then how you and M. Shore interact to come up with such a remarkable final result of audio and text...>>>

Heh, well again I’ll do my best. If you really want reports like “and then we sat down with coffee and listened to it again…” I’ll be more than happy to provide them!

>>>By the way, my good ol' bro had ordered TTT:CR on Dec. 18th from BnN, 14 day delivery. I still haven't got it. Any ideas anyone?>>>

I would definitely contact B&N at this point. Did they send any indication that package had shipped? Can you track it?

>>>Doug, any hope for the Minas Tirith ROTK trailer version on the paths of the multimedia CD?>>>

This is not impossible.

>>>One example everybody knows by now is Gandalf's ride to Minas Tirith. We all know that Gandalf originally saved Faramir when he arrived at Minas Tirith, and the OST gives us that version. And if the ROTK CR is supposed to contain the music how it was recorded, it would have to feature the OST version. But that conflicts with the idea of making the CRs represent the storytelling of the movie.>>>

As I indicated, the choices of WHAT to use really only pertain to the music that wasn’t in the final film. Now there are a few (and very few) instances where Shore’s original intentions may have been altered in the final mix of a piece that WAS in the final film. TTT had a couple of these as well. Do you use hardanger or trumpet? Would both work? Which did HS originally compose? What does he prefer? What does the mixer prefer? The project supervisor? These are small choices, of course, but it’s a detailed process. The work itself doesn’t take so long, it’s the decisions behind it.

That said, honestly, the most time consuming element of the various drafts is the mix… remember, this is many, many, many hours of music all being completely remixed (and remixed in several resolutions). Take considerations of how much chorus, how much string sound, woodwinds, brass, percussion, soloists, ethnic instruments, etc. and spread them over four hours or so. So even without the choice of takes and potential alternates, you’ve got an absolutely mammoth undertaking.

>>>*coughbuythebookcough*<<<

Have you ANY doubts we all here will indeed be lining up for our copies to help put the thing on the best seller list? I hope your publisher gives you lots of publicity!

Suggestion: don't be afraid to put in numerous and frequent time stamps!

And maybe you remember my hint that you might want to have bits for the more musically technical among us set off from the main text so those who don't want or need that can still get a through composition, as it were.

>I am sure you will come up with some really fascinating tidbits of how the actual process of editing the score is done and then how you and M. Shore interact to come up with such a remarkable final result of audio and text...>

Heh, well again I’ll do my best. If you really want reports like “and then we sat down with coffee and listened to it again…” I’ll be more than happy to provide them!...<<<

Sure, that sort of thing really helps to get us outsiders to sense what blood, toil and tears went into the whole project...

>>>...That said, honestly, the most time consuming element of the various drafts is the mix… remember, this is many, many, many hours of music all being completely remixed (and remixed in several resolutions). Take considerations of how much chorus, how much string sound, woodwinds, brass, percussion, soloists, ethnic instruments, etc. and spread them over four hours or so. So even without the choice of takes and potential alternates, you’ve got an absolutely mammoth undertaking....
-Doug<<<

Now there we go... Why not take a particularly interesting (and intricate) exemplary passage and give us the nuts and bolts of how it went from multiple tracks of each instrument to a final mix and edit and then how you worked out your elucidations... Where does M. Shore do it, at home, at a studio, whose-all input is considered? If more than one pair of ears, are there any moments of gentlemenly sotto voce disagreement and how are they resolved... You know, the usual impertent interviewer type questions digging for drama and newsworthiness (read: conflict!! both interpersonal and within M. Shore's mind)...
You know, sort of a verbalization of the drafts and sketches the composition went through, then the mixing/editing stages, then your commentary being worked out.

(Not that you haven't enough on your plate already!... but when and if you feel the urge to do a sample of a Christopher Tolkien-style "History of the Music of Shore's Middle-earth" sort of thing....)

Timdalf

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As I indicated, the choices of WHAT to use really only pertain to the music that wasn’t in the final film. Now there are a few (and very few) instances where Shore’s original intentions may have been altered in the final mix of a piece that WAS in the final film.

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Secondly, I think all the posters clamoring for a sooner release date should pipe down a bit about that. Doug must be feeling more than a bit overwhelmed at the moment with a large book AND a 5-disc CR set coming up this fall, so why don't we cut him some slack? Also, I do not think the release date is going to be affected if the set is finished earlier. I think they're released when Reprise and Co. would prefer them to be released. November is a very favorable release date for holiday purchases, remember.

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Originally posted by Earl:
WOW! Doug, you're the best...4 discs + lots n lots of multimedia content + your book. I sure hope the price does not shoot through the chimney & beyond.
But I've already started saving, so YAY.

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Well, I stashed away a Franklin in an envelope several months ago bracing for the inevitable price. I don't mind much though... but I'll be a little worried about sales volume if the price inches too close to $100.

And so many thanks Doug for your always informative updates!

And where's the difference to what was done on FotR and T2T? I'm confused...

Also, for *my* snare drum question - I know, we German all look/sound/post alike... I've been trying to break down the pattern of what it's playing, especially during the first 30 seconds, but there are so many eighth and sixteenth rests in there that I'm screwed.

This is, I think, one of my true wishes...have the complete score in front of me while listening to the CRs...

CK

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And where's the difference to what was done on FotR and T2T? I'm confused...

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Originally posted by Christian Kühn:
Also, for *my* snare drum question - I know, we German all look/sound/post alike... I've been trying to break down the pattern of what it's playing, especially during the first 30 seconds, but there are so many eighth and sixteenth rests in there that I'm screwed.

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Sorry about that. Mea culpa!

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This is, I think, one of my true wishes...have the complete score in front of me while listening to the CRs...

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