Mostly I just wanted to post now to get post 1000.

-Doug

I have a question, though, for Doug: Sifting out all of the variations in which the triangle plays once or three times, can all of the 'great' (or unique) rarities truly fit on one CD (less than 80 minutes)? I would think it would be longer. I can live with 'only' having one CD of 'deleted scenes', but it sure would have been nice to have a CR of the rarities, where 'complete' was defined as unique cut pieces, for example the Lothlorien piece that was a bonus track on the Two Towers CD several years back. That sounds so completely different from Shore's LOTR music.

Also, Doug, are there any developments you might accidentally drop hints about re: the distant possibility of the written score being published? I 'might' recall a hint being dropped about a year ago that was 'not negative' on this issue. Ahem.

Diddo the possibility of the score being played live to the film. I know Shore was considering this a year ago (as discussed on this board). Are there any small or large developments toward this happening at some point?

Thanks again for everything Doug. I'm very appreciative for everything you're doing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Earl:
Hey Magpie, if you haven't already, please do check your gmail account. There's something in there you should see.

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edit: I found it in my spam folder. Had to sign out of my primary account and go to my website address account to find it. Will go read it now.

I, too, was pleased to see Doug indulging in some fun (post #1,000).

In fact, I'm almost convinced that the also ever so vaguely described "multimedia content" of the book and the rarities disc will be the same thing.
There may also exist the possibility that the multimedia thingy has the written orchestral scores in digital form, since Doug suggested, I think it was in the first thread, that releasing the written scores was not out of question.

As for the differentiation between a true alternate and a simple tweak in the music, I say this: if, to pick up Doug's example, the Cirith Ungol piece has an English Horn statement of the Ring theme over aleatoric strings, and the alternate (I suppose he means the current film version) is the same piece only without the Horn, then I think that does not qualify as a true alternate, but merely as a tweak in orchestration.

For me, a true alternate does really have to display a radical change in thematic identity, orchestration, or mood.

quote:

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Originally posted by Beren:
It can't be so late. I read somewhere(i think on this forum) that DA' book will be released in the beggining of 2008. Besides,if it's almost(or close to almost) ready why would he delay it with 12 months more?

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Eh? I, too, am under the impression that it will be later in the year (I'm not gonna run and look for it, my thesis needs writing). Also, I cannot remember that Doug said he's close to the finish (which doesn't mean much...my brain's a bit porous these days...)

Clarification welcome, but I will also buy this thing, no matter when it comes out.

CK

quote:

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Besides,if it's almost(or close to almost) ready why would he delay it with 12 months more?

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For the same reason it was delayed for the last two years?
Doug said schedule was currently set for 2008, no need for speculation here.

PS: To quote Doug:

quote:

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--Book / rarities discs on target for 2008… as of right now. I’d be surprised to see that change.

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quote:

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Maybe Santa can help you out with all the above.

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PS: To quote Doug:

Book / rarities discs on target for 2008… as of right now. I’d be surprised to see that change.</BLOCKQUOTE>

That could still mean early 2008, unless Doug was more specific somewhere else?
But I also don't recall reading that the book was almost completed.

Uhm and he specifically mentions discs, so we're at least getting one disc and I doubt the plural was a typo.

I can't fathom where you got the idea that there would be no CD.

I think, the Shore-interview with Movie-Geeks-United is great! They talk a lot about SNL and his collaboration with David Cronenberg. In case it still doesn't work for somebody, I wanted to make sure nobody misses it and made a transcript of the Howard-Shore-related parts of the show (about 40 minutes).
I did some research to make sure that I get the names mentioned by Shore right (names I'm not sure about are marked by a [?]) - now I'm an expert on SNL-History

The two hosts are represented by a '-', Maestro Shore is 'HS' (witty, eh? )
I left out a few 'you know's and 'I mean's though. [My comments are in square brackets]

Well, here we go...

Introduction:
[...] Whether he scored an epic battle in Middle-Earth or an intimate moment of ‘Eastern Promises’, he is one of the most gifted and beloved talents in film today. The Moviegeeks welcome legendary film composer Howard Shore [...]

@25:50
-Speaking of films currently in release, we’re about to speak with Howard Shore. We couldn’t be more thrilled by that.
-No, we really couldn’t be. I mean, I can’t be.
-This is a legend that we’re about to welcome to the show. You got a chance to see ‘Eastern Promises’?
-Oh, ‘Eastern Promises’ is excellent. I mean, there is no doubt... I mean, it’s David Cronenberg, you know, reunited with Viggo Mortensen, but more importantly, reunited with Howard Shore again and it’s just, you know, that relationship – like so many other directors and composers – there’s magic to be had each time out [?]
-Yeah. And it really.... 12 films, I believe, they have done together.
-Yeah, that sounds about right
- Starting with something like, I think, perhaps ‘Videodrome’
- That’s sounds about right.
-Where James Woods actually called him the ‘Bernard Herrmann of the synthesizer’
- *laughs* I believe it.
- Taking a compliment from James Woods, I mean that’s…
- Yeah, a compliment from James Woods. And he probably was having trouble with Sean Young at the time, so.. yeah…
- This seems a little different for Cronenberg. I mean, Cronenberg has gone on the surface that seems a little bit more mainstream, that…
- I don’t know if mainstream is the right word. I think he’s just.. He’s come to terms of some things. I mean, he.. it’s really funny, people consider him like a horror director and maybe back in the seventies this was true, but I think, he is tryin’ to say so much more. He’s a very fascinating figure. I mean, we couldn’t do a 2 hour tribute-show to him, we would have to do a month long tribute-show to him, because there is so much to be said about his films and about him. And I won’t go into it right now, but his relationship with Howard Shore, that was essential. And I think that comes to life really with ‘Spider’. I mean, ‘Spider’ is a turning point for – I think – both of them. And ‘Spider’ is just a turning point for Howard Shore, because in one week, you have ‘Spider’, ‘Gangs of New York’ and ‘The Two Towers’. That’s quite a…
- It’s quite a work load
- Yeah, it’s quite a work load in one week to go through those three films in a span of five days, I remember. And to hear those three different scores is remarkable. He has an incredible range.
-Yeah, he really does. And one of my favourite scores is ‘The Fly’.
- Oh, ‘The Fly’ is great!
- And I remember just… Obviously, I loved the film and Chris feels the same, it’s one of his very favourites. But this score just elevates it.
- M-hm
- Just to Stratosphere. A great score. And, you know, I collect soundtracks, so I have all the soundtracks of Howard Shore. I have Cronenberg’s ‘Crash’, which is a very interesting score, but if you think about it - if you’re watching ‘Crash’ without music, without the score and someone goes to you and says: ‘All right, find the musical voice of this film!’. It’s such a complex, it’s a film you’ve never seen… You know, it’s really not like anything you’ve ever seen before.
-Right
- How do you do that?
- I know, I mean, he’s…
- But he finds it, it’s perfect and I love that score. And obviously the ‘Lord of the Rings’ scores are huge
-Very big
- Some of the top-selling music compositions for film. That’s … wow!
- It’s just incredible like the different directors…. I mean he has worked for James Gray, David Fincher, I mean, everyone. Pacino.. It’s just an incredible work.
- That’s right, Pacino. Thank you, I’ve got that question. I’m a Pacino-baby, I…
- I mean, he’s since done.. I mean, he is his own… He is definetly… with all the work that he has done… He’s just amazing. And those scores, they’re... I mean, those scores can exist outside the film.
- Absolutely.
- So.. it’s incredible
- Yeah. We’re waiting to receive his call and bring him on to the show.
[…]

@32:10
- Our next guest is all up and ready to go and we couldn’t be more excited about this. Our next guest is one of the most talented and versatile composers working in film. This legendary talent began his career as the founder of the group Lighthouse, before joining Saturday Night Live as their first musical director between 1975 and 1980. He soon fell into a collaboration with director David Cronenberg, a relationship that still thrives after 12 films together. His uniquely expressive and unforgetable work can be heard in films as diverse as ‘The Fly’, ‘Ed Wood’, ‘Silence of the Lambs’, ‘The Departed’, ‘Mrs. Doubtfire’ and, of course, Peter Jackson’s epic ‘Lord of the Rings’-Trilogy, which is a remarkable work, breathtaking both in its scope and pure emotional power. His work is beloved by fans across the globe and critics’ groups and awards organisations agree. His long list of honors include 11 ASCAP-Awards, 2 Saturn Awards, 3 Golden Globes [acutally he got 4 GoldenGlobes, but who counts ], 4 Grammies, a Career Achievement Award from the National Board of Review and 3 Oscars for his work on the Lord of the Rings-Trilogy. And this amazingly talented musician doesn’t flow down for a second. His new score for David Cronenbergs latest film ‘Eastern Promises’ is in stores now. The Cincinnati Symphony-Orchestra will be performing his Lord of the Rings-Symphony this coming weekend and the Complete Recordings of his score for ‘Return of the King’ will be released on November 6th. It is a tremendous honor to welcome to our show Mr. Howard Shore. Let’s see, if I can bring this line up. Mr. Shore, are you there?

HS: Yes, I am.

- Mr. Shore, thank you so much for joining us tonight and taking the time out of your schedule to be with us. Thank you so much.
I wanted to start.. When did you know, that music would be your life?

HS: Hmm… I started studying quite young when I was 8 or 9. I was studying harmony and counterpoint and started to play music without the musicians. And then I met other writers, friends of mine, who then became directors and some became actors. Tthat group as a kid, you know, in my teens, was really important to me, because some of those friendships were very long-lasting and I did a little directing, I did some acting and then I just decided around 17 to persue music and music was something I was really interested in.

- So you started bands, you started Lighthouse.

HS: Yes some bands, when I was 13, 14. Lighthouse started, I think, about 1969 and I was one of the founding members of that group and I toured with the group for 4 years. I did I think about a tousand one-nighters[?] between 1969 and 1972 and I was quite young, so I got to see a lot of the world and we toured with Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Big Brother and the Holding Company. It was an interesting period.

-I bet it was. So how did the job at Saturday Night Live come about for you?

HS: Well, Lorne is a few years older than I am, but we met at a summer camp in Northern Ontario, when we were kids. I was 13 when I met Lorne and we became good friends and we started writing together. We did a show actually in Northern Ontario in the summer camp, a camp called ‘Timberland’, that was like a sketch comedy show, it was the early genesis of Saturday Night Live. This was about 1960/61 and we did a show once a week at this camp, on Saturday night and that was really a result of our collaboration. And then we met Danny Aykroyd and Gilda Radner and Second-City-People. And Lorne went to California, I went on the road. He was working with Lilly Tomland[?] and Ted Wilson[?]. And we met back in New York in 1975 again with a group of friends and started the show. That was probably about maybe 15 of us, 12 or 15 writers, performers, musicians, directors, that kind of thing.

- Just an amazing, just a breathtaking assembly of tremendous talents that converged for Saturday Night Live at the beginning.

HS: It was an interesting time. I mean, people came from California, from Chicago, Belushi was from Chicago and Bill Murray came from Chicago. Gilda from Detroid. Danny Aykroyd was in Toronto. We came from all over, some people were in New York, Michael O’Donoghue was in New York, Sheryll Hartwood[?] was in New York.

- You were also instrumental in the formation of the Blues Brothers, is that correct?

HS: The Blues Brothers were… It was an opening act for the show, when we did the warm up on Saturday Night. For the dress rehearsal and for the live audience we did a warm up with the band. It was very free and we’d do improvisations. We played a lot of Blues stuff and R’n’B stuff – stuff that I love from that period, from this acts. I was writing R’n’B tunes, I was writing the theme to the show, which was very ??? [genuaka???] inspired and so the Blues was part of the creation of the show, I mean it was what we were interested in. And so Danny would join in and play a little harp with us from the beginning, just warming up. It was a very loose kind of thing. Then John wanted to join in and be part of it and I would introduce them as brothers in blues, the Blues Brothers. I don’t know where it came from, I would just introduce them as that and they were stuck and it kinda went on from that.

- What kind of tools did you take away from your SNL-experience?

HS: Well, it was a good collaborative period, it was a great way to work with writers very carefully, very closely. It was a good way to work with performers, you had to work with different directors, the hosts were there every week – a variety of hosts, really interesting fascinating people from all areas of the world. There were writers, performers,.. So, I mean, you learned a lot. I was in my twenties, it was a way to really do repertory theatre for television. That was like, you know, a group activity, that expressed itself in a weekly show. You know, Saturday 11:30 was a culmination of our work that week and in the early years of the show, there really was no form to it. Now when you watch Saturday Night Live, you know what it is and it has this structure to it, but in the beginning it was very free formed and if you watch those early shows, it was us just trying to come up with enough ideas in music and comedy, you know, really to do 90 minutes of good television a week.

- Yeah, it’s a tremendous challenge, I’m sure. During this time - did David Cronenberg approach you? How did that relationship begin?

HS: No… As I mentioned earlier, I’ve been writing and, you know, been studying music since I was a kid and really didn’t have the means to realize the things that I was hearing in my mind. I was only able to work with, you know, small groups, chamber groups, brass trios, you know, whatever I could get together to write for. And writing for the band on the show was okay, you know, for the period. It was exciting for a year or two, but it was limited in a way to what I was wanting to do with music and the things I was imagining. So I thought, movies were very experimental to me, because I came of age in the 50ies and 60ies. So film music was a way for me to really try really kind of different things, it was a way to experiment, to do things. So I kinda looked to that. Around ’78 I did a film in Canada, a thriller. It’s actually a murder-mystery-film with Elke Sommer [that has to be ‘I Miss You, Hugs And Kisses’] and David knew about that, and then I think when he was doing ‘The Brood’ in 1978, I think it was ‘round the same period, I asked him, I approached him, if he was interested in having an original score for his films, because he always did his films with needle drop, he didn’t have the budget to hire a composer. David’s been making movies since he was 16, 8mm movies and then 16mm and then 35. So around the time of ‘The Brood’ ’78, he felt, he was maybe ready to try it. And he knew me, I was younger than David - he is a few years older than I am, I think about 3 or 4 years older. So when we were kids, I mean, when I was 12, David was 16 and I used to see him in the neighbourhood. He had this beautiful italian motorcycle and he had a Page-Boy-haircut from the 60ies, you know, and he just looked amazing and you would see him around the neighbourhood and when you were 12, it’s pretty impressive – that sight, you know. Then I found out that he made films and I would see his films in underground film festivals, which were very popular in the 60ies and you’d go at midnight and you’d see films ‘til 2 or 3 in the morning at these underground festivals. Most were just short films, 30-minute-films, one-wheeler-type[?] things. And I saw some of his short films and so I became interested in what he was doing and then again around the time of ‘The Broods’ I approached him to see if he was interested in collaboration and he said yes, he was and so we started working together.

- And talk about a collaboration that’s just endored and thrived so well throughout the years. Tell me about that working relationship. What makes the two of you jello[?] so well together?

HS: I think that we are from a very similar background, we both grew up in Toronto, and a similar neighbourhood. A lot of our friends now are people that we knew when we were younger. David says I introduced him to his wife Caroline, that he’s still married to for a long time, I don’t know how long, but quite a long time. I think there is just this like sensibility, in the way we look at things, the way we look at films. David is the most well-read person I know and I think his age.. maybe the fact that he is a few years older than me, he always seemed a bit like an older brother and I was looking up to him, because he always knew much more than I did and I was always learning things from him all the time. I still feel that way, I still feel that everytime he takes on a new project, there’s a learning curve, ‘cause you’re catching up to Cronenberg and never really.. you know, you don’t really know enough. ‘Eastern Promises’ is interesting, because he did a, you know, like a celebrity-list on amazon of books that he had studied for the film and he listed the top 10 books, they were all about Russian politics, Russian philosophy, Russian criminal activity, I mean, amazing books. What is so incredible is, that he is interested in so many things and he’s so well-read and it’s a constant learning. And I think, that’s an inspiring thing, because the group has stayed together for a long time, almost 30 years, making these films and it’s always constantly growing. We’re learning new things and we’re expressing new ideas and also, when you have a group like that works together, there is no way to go back, you’re constantly going forward, because you’ve done all this work and so you can’t revert to something you’ve done. Nobody gets away with it anything, you see, because everybody knows everything about everybody.

- Yeah, it’s like a family.

- So, let’s talk about ‘Eastern Promises’ for a little bit. I’m interested in the process of crafting a musical voice for this film. So taking ‘Eastern Promises’, what did you have to understand about the themes of the film? What were your considerations before you started to craft that theme?

HS: Well, David always sends you the books that he’s interested in or the books that he’s adapting very early on. I mean, he sends us the scripts[?] really early, when he just starting to think about it and even before he’s cast the film, so you start quicking away[?] on things that he is thinking about. I mean, ‘Eastern Promises’ involved a lot of research of Russian folk music. We listened to a lot of music together. You know, we would do the research in the library and then we would pass the music back and forth to each other, so we were constantly listening to a lot of music and he was listening to a lot of music when he was shooting and I always go to visit him, when he is shooting. I always go to the set, I meet the actors. Of course I know Viggo from ‘Lord of the Rings’ and from ‘History of Violence’ and so it’s great to see him and also Peter Suschitzky, the great cinematographer, who shot ‘Dead Ringers’ and all the movies in between is incredible and Ron Sanders is there during the shoot, who’s been editing Davids films for years – fantastic editor. And so you’re going and being part of this group - Carol Spier, the production designer – and you’re soaking up atmosphere from the set, from this group, from David. Watching David shoot is a really interesting experience and it’s really provoking, when you watch how he shoots and the things he selects and where he moves the camera, where he puts the camera, it’s really interesting. And so all of those things.. you go away from that with ideas and you start to assemble a body of work just based on the idea of the film. We also looked at Russian criminal tatoos. There is a wonderful documentary Alex Lambert did. He went into a high-security Russian prison and shot criminals with… shot their tatoos basically. It’s a documentary on what the tatoos mean, the hierarchy of the criminals in prison and how all of their history is expressed on their body. You can tell in prison just by looking at a man’s tatoos what he’s done. How many murders he’s done, how many felonies, how many robberies – it tells you everything about him. And there is actually a scene in ‘Eastern Promises’ just before the steambath, where they are coming down a hall and he says, they liked to have meetings in the steam room, because you get to see what a man… through his tatoos… see what you’re dealing with.

- Right, yeah. I remember reading an interview recently with Viggo Mortensen, where he discussed, how important these tatoos were. It even took 4 hours a day in make-up to put those on, but it was very important for his character.

HS: Right, we passed the documentary around, we looked at books of tatoos, of tatoo-art from that period and then through listening to the folk music I started writing and, you know, thematic ideas all away from the film. I was just thinking about the film. And then I created a series of pieces based on the impressions of the film. And then there is a scoring process later on, that actually is taking this music and scoring it, if you will, to the film. You know, deciding where things go and how they go and how to orchestrate it. It’s a very linear process, doing film music, it doesn’t all happen at once. There is composition, orchstration and then recording, which is the performance really, when you’re in the studio with the actual musicians, which is a whole part of the process in itself. And then the post-process of editing and actually producing.

- And Cronenberg has hands-on-involvement? He’s there with you every step of the way in the studio?

HS: He is - in a kinda mental-intuitive way. We talk on the phone a lot, if we’re not physically in the same place, but it’s a constant dialog really until we discover the truth of the story, discover the truth of it musically. Sometimes it’s difficult. It’s not always easy working with people that you… As I said, because it’s this constantly changing landscape. I remember, when we were doing ‘Spider’, it was difficult to find the idea, the musical sense of ‘Spider’, because ‘Spider’ didn’t speak, it was such an interior world and music is a very interior world – it’s a very emotional interior… you know. So, to find music for ‘Spider’ was difficult, it took a while to find that and I think all of his films do, they all have their discovery and, you know, it takes a lot of work just to find the essence and the truth of the film.

- Yes, that’s… What I love about Cronenbergs work, is: so many movies are copies of another movie you’ve seen. David Cronenberg films – you’ve never seen those before, so I was discussing with Jerry, my co-host earlier in the show, you take a movie like ‘Crash’, you’ve seen the movie ‘Crash’ without a score, you need to come up with a musical voice for that film and it’s unlike anything you’ve ever seen before, I can not imagine how daunting that must be.

HS: What you do… And I talked about this on ‘Lord of the Rings’, because we talked about daunting, you said daunting… I started on that project and you felt like Frodo, you felt like this little Hobbit, you had this one… and you just had to take this object to Mordor, a place you don’t know how to get there, where it was, how difficult it was gonna be and you just proceed, you know, with will-power and determination and discipline to do it and you just proceed and you just go step by step. You can’t go from A to B immediately, you have to go through the steps day by day, you know it’s kind of ritualistic in a way and you just proceed in increments and the suddenly you look behind you and you habe ideas and thoughts and you’re starting to create the piece. And suddenly there is five minutes of music, and then it’s ten and then 30 and you add to it and every added dose is a kind of mental discipline really, composition.

- Well, talking ‘bout building at a little at a time. You have the Complete Recordings for all three films, I believe ‘Return of the King’ is released on November 6th.

HS: Yes, we’re just finishing it, yes.

- It’s something like 11+ hours of music in total, isn’t it?

HS: I think it’s close. It’s 10 CDs in total. We parted the Complete Recordings. Three for Fellowship, three for Two Towers and now four for ‘Return of the King’ and it’s as *complete* as I can do right now, I mean without any outtakes or rarities or anything. There is actually more music, but I mean, some of it wasn’t used in the film. What I put on the Complete Recordings is everything that was used in the films. There’s four CDs of music in the ‘Return of the King’ extended version – the long version.

- Wow, what a staggering accomplishment.

HS: It’s been remastered, it’s been edited into tracks, Doug Adams’ liner notes are fantastic. [*yay him*] You know, there’s 50 pages of liner notes for each edition. And Doug is working on a standalone book next year about all of the music of the trilogy. We’ve been working on it… The releases took three years – one year for each edition. So really the work on ‘Lord of the Rings’ – I started in 2000 – it’s now seven years.

- Wow, that’s a journey.. Tell me about the Symphony-performances for your ‘Lord of the Rings’-score that are taking place.

HS: The Symphony is a 6 movement piece for symphony orchestra, mixed choir, adult choir, children’s choir, soloists and there’re some folk instruments as well. The total instrumentation is 225 on stage and it’s a 2 hour an 10 minute piece that takes you through the world of Middle-Earth, through ‘The Lord of the Rings’ in that amount of time really. It’s not everything that was created, but it’s what was able to be played in a concert performance in one sitting. And it’s had I think about 140 performances all over the world – in the far eastern, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada. And I’ve done many performances. I did a lot in 2004, this year I did one at the Blossom Festival with the Cleveland Orchestra, it’s just a great, amazing orchestra that I love and that’s the second time I performed with them the Symphony and now I’m getting ready for a performance in Paris in the Châtelet -Theatre on November 2nd and 3rd [I thought it was the 3rd and the 4th???]. And there’re other conductors that play the work, so the Symphony was really a way to give the work life. So it just didn’t have these recordings, or it just didn’t exist in the film, it now can be played with real orchestras playing it and singers and children’s chior and it’s a very community type of event, I mean, you mentioned the Cincinnati Orchestra is playing it this coming weekend and if you’re in Cincinnati this week, you’d see the choir rehearsing for it, the children learning Tolkien’s music – all in Cincinnati. All that comes is the conductor to do it and it’s all done with the Cincinnati community. And so it’s really a wonderful kind of music-making event. And it’s great in the community and it really seems to have a great community type of feeling to it.

-How satisfying must that be, that, on a global level, your score means so much to so many people, it’s moving people so much. That’s just an amazing accomplishment, ‘The Lord of the Rings’.
We actually have an e-mail-question for you and it’s concerning one of my all-time-favourite scores which is ‘The Fly’. It’s a very hightened and operatic score, so it makes sence that you are in the process of basing an opera around that concept. How is that shaping up?

HS: The opera is finished, compositionally. A piano vocal score was finished in the spring and I’m orchestrating the piece now and the premiere is in Paris at the Châtelet on June 30 this coming year 2008. And it’s a co-comission between Châtelet and Los Angeles Opera, it goes to Los Angeles in september. ‘The Fly’ was something that I had thought about for many years. I thought it was a good opera-subject. I became interested in opera in the early 80ies and I started thinking of film music in that way. I learned a lot about writing film music from studying opera, but I stayed away from it for a long time until I felt I was ready. And then after writing this much music for ‘Lord of the Rings’, which is essentially an opera work – it uses Tolkien’s languages, his 5 languages are used in the piece, and the music for the film is essentially.. it’s based around voices, choral music and soloists and we used many singers, that I wrote for, in the choirs of that 10 or 11 hours of music. And so, having done that, I felt maybe I was ready for the opera and I wanted to work with something that I was comfortable with, that I knew and so I always thought ‘The Fly’ was a good subject and I met Placido and I told him about it and he became interested in it and he commissioned it for LA and so I’ve been working on it for two years and this is my last year now of orchestration and rehearsals and I’m doing a workshop with David Cronenberg in Paris next week.

-So Mr. Cronenberg is involved?

HS: Yes, he’s directing it.

- Great.

HS: Dante Ferretti, is the production designer, David Henry Hwang wrote a wonderful libretto, an incredible libretto and it’s cast now and for me, it’s a wonderful thing to work on, I love it, I love the form so much and it’s just a great gift for me as a composer to work on it.

- Well, I can’t let you go without asking about two of my favourite talents that you’ve worked with. And one is Martin Scorsese. For the past few years you’ve fairly regularly – with ‘The Aviator’, ‘The Departed’ and future projects - collaborated with him. What is… If there’s any director out there, that is a musical director, he is definitely one. What’s that collaboration like?

HS: Well, Marty loves music, as you know, and that’s always been a great bond between us, beause we both love it so much. So we’re constantly passing ideas back and forth to each other, so that’s really been a great partner to working together. I met Marty and Thelma Schoonmaker [Scorsese’s frequently used editor, just in case you didn’t know ] in the Brill Building in 1986. I did a film with him called ‘After Hours’ and then I worked with him on five productions now I think and they’re just incredible to work with – Marty and Thelma and they’re just great filmmakers, they’re brilliant people to work with, they’re funny and creative and they challenge you and you grow and we try things and it’s just a very fluid wonderful relationship and collaboration and you see that in the films I think. Marty’s like that with everybody he’s working with in films, because he has so much love for the art of making films and we all appreciate that and so it’s a nice place to work when you’re working with Marty and Thelma.

- I bet it is. And his next project is the Rolling Stones concert film ‘Shine A Light’.

HS: Yes, it’s a documentary…

- The last person I need to ask you about, because I’m kind of a super-geeky fan of this man’s work, is Al Pacino. You worked with him on ‘Looking for Richard’.

HS: Yes.

- That was a big passion project of his. What was that experience like?

HS: Well, it actually was a wonderful project, because I love working with writers. You know, I’ve done other literature adaptions besides Tolkien: J. G. Ballard’s ‘Crash’, William Burroughs’ ‘Naked Lunch’ and now Shakespeare. How wonderful to work with Shakespeare! And that just opened up a lot of creative ideas. The text for the score that I wrote is a latin text, it was written by Elizabeth Cotnoir for the film and I worked with a choir, it was recoreded in a church. You know, it’s just a lovely thing when the director and the composer are interested in the same world – the writer [?]. ‘Cause you’re really going back to the source and both of us are looking at Richard and really expressing ideas about Richard. ‘Looking for Richard’ is about Al Pacino’s search for the truth in Richard III and as the composer you’re doing the same thing. So you’re really on the same wave length, the same journey and I think the work was good on that, very good.

- It was fantastic. Any stories I can get about Pacino, I grab them wherever I can. Mr. Shore, thank you so much for being with us tonight. You are more than welcome to join us any time in the future, just say the word. Thank you so much. Bye bye now.

HS: Thank you.

- That is Howard Shore, I can’t believe we just spoke with Howard Shore.

- I’m in a state of disbelieve, to be very honest.

- He spent a lot of time with us.

- Yes, he did.

- I still have 10 more questions but…

- I’m eternally grateful that he spent all this time with us.

- I know… What a wonderful talent, Howard Shore. His new score for ‘Eastern Promises’ is in stores now. It’s also playing at the theatre by the way. And you can also purchase his Complete Recordings of the ‘Return of the King’ score, when it’s released in record stores Novemver 6th.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
That was LONG!

He mentioned that basically all the music from the CR you also hear in the extended cut of the film. Is that right?
I thought there were a couple of outtakes, like the music for Gollum's transformation, the unused piece for Frodo in Mt. Doom and the destruction of Mordor?

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He said you hear all the music from the film on the CR, not that you hear all the music from the CR in the film - that's a wide difference!

>>Im glad I heard the interview, because I don't think I could read that, but great job on the commitment Sabsi.<<

You could read one or two questions (and answers) a day. Would be a great way to kill time 'til november 6th.

I hope there aren't too many typos and grammar mistakes, I just realised that I didn't proof-read it...

[Message edited by Sabsi on 09-26-2007]

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Originally posted by Olorin:
Does anyone else have a problem with their computer not properly displaying special characters, like curly quotes or the U-umlaut in Christian's name? On my screen the display as a diamond with a question mark in it, and it's rather annoying.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Olorin:
Does anyone else have a problem with their computer not properly displaying special characters, like curly quotes or the U-umlaut in Christian's name? On my screen the display as a diamond with a question mark in it, and it's rather annoying.

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Thanks a lot for going to all that trouble - a very enjoyable read.

>>>Oh Doug, glad you're back. And glad to hear the great updates as well. And also glad to hear you'll be deeply involved with the rarities stuff. Not as glad to hear it won't be a boxed set, but glad to assume this means it'll be released along with your book.>>>

The thing is, we don’t think a plain old boxed set would do the release justice, simply because this material is going to need explanation and contextualization. You’ll see what we have in mind. However, don’t let the lack of a “box” suggest a lack of quantity or shift in the elegance of the presentation. This will be right on par with the rest of the series, only physically different. But then, it’s a different type of material, yes? This is more archival and less story-driven.

>>>Thanks for a great update as usual and YES, I at least hope you'll be up for an ROTK podcast since it'll be some time before I get the CR itself (and I'm counting on the podcast music to tide me over 'til the CR's mine).>>>

Seems like most thumbs are up on the Podcast. A couple people have emailed great ideas. Keep ‘em coming! The suggestions certainly help.

>>>Greatly looking forward to it, Doug. And your usage of little-known English words. Out of curiosity: FotR's AS was 29 pages long (1,1 MB), the one for T2T 41 (6 MB). Apart from the instruments' section and the choral lyrics (which don't differ that much in length), was there so much more to write about T2T? Will you be aiming at a similar length (proportionate to the score's length, of course) for RotK?>>>

Good question. TTT was much longer because the score (as driven by the story) became much more complicated and involved. In Fellowship, there was generally one (maybe two) storylines occurring at any given moment. Two Towers scattered the characters all around Middle-earth. So not only did we need to spell out all the new material, we needed to delineate all these overlapping ideas. The crosscutting storylines meant that the leitmotifs got much more of a developmental workout.

ROTK, as of this current draft, is 51 pages. Now, that usually drops when WB streamlines the layout… meaning they incorporate their fonts, their margins… they never fiddle with the text.

There is a LOT of music to discuss, believe you me!

>>>You should know by now that we *never* run out of questions. Can we all send in video-taped questions? Or make a huge conference call?>>>

You know, that’s not a terrible idea. I may actually be able to set up a voicemail specifically for Podcast questions. Would that be something that would interest you guys?—Being able to call in and prerecord questions?

>>>All Best, Doug, and scratch up another pint for you (gee, that bill will be horrible!).>>>

I hope there’s going to be a designated driver!

>>>Q:Will there be,at the end(the end meaning just a few months away, right? ), more than 11 hours of music on discs?>>>

Are you including the rarities? If so, then there will be more than 11 hours.

>>>Anyone know if the complete recordings will include the singing from Merry and Pippen at the feast in the original movie and the orcs chanting Grond as they are marching toward Minis Tirith.>>>

Merry and Pippin: yes. Orcs: Oh dear, no!

>>>And Doug, by now you should know that we wouldn't even be against five podcasts
And I'm pretty sure Doug implied that the suggested release date for book/rarities was fall 2008.

"Maybe Santa can help you with all the above ..."
You sneaky little hobbit!>>>

Good eyes. That particular post was loaded with hints, btw. I put the “green” thing up front so that I’d lead with an obvious one and throw people off the scent a little. But there’s more there than meets the eye…

>>>It's clear that Doug, et al have finalized the choice to have all of the rarities on one CD. I agree that hearing variations on the same piece with minor instrumental differences would be repetitive to the point of boring. I'm also beyond grateful for the existence of the rarities, period.>>>

Actually, if the current plan is followed, the rarities / unused material will not be on one CD.

>>>I have a question, though, for Doug: Sifting out all of the variations in which the triangle plays once or three times, can all of the 'great' (or unique) rarities truly fit on one CD (less than 80 minutes)? I would think it would be longer. I can live with 'only' having one CD of 'deleted scenes', but it sure would have been nice to have a CR of the rarities, where 'complete' was defined as unique cut pieces, for example the Lothlorien piece that was a bonus track on the Two Towers CD several years back. That sounds so completely different from Shore's LOTR music.>>>

The intention is to include any piece that warrants interest. The rarities will be as complete as interest will bear. The triangle example is just being used to explain the type of thing that wont be used—i.e., *nearly* identical takes where the musical concept is essentially the same, though there are tiny variations in the details. But the archives are absolutely stuffed with alternate passages, entirely different concepts, unused songs, synth mock-ups, theme tests, all sorts of stuff!

>>>Also, Doug, are there any developments you might accidentally drop hints about re: the distant possibility of the written score being published? I 'might' recall a hint being dropped about a year ago that was 'not negative' on this issue. Ahem.>>>

There has been motion on this project and Howard is now working with a publisher to bring more of his (written) music to the public. This is a separate endeavor however; complete LOTR conductors scores are not to be a part of the book. The thing would be thousands and thousands of pages long!

>>>Diddo the possibility of the score being played live to the film. I know Shore was considering this a year ago (as discussed on this board). Are there any small or large developments toward this happening at some point?>>>

Large developments. Stay tuned!

>>>I tend to think that this ever so vaguely described "rarities disc" will neither be just one CD, nor a full CR. Instead, I think it will be something completely different, corresponding with Doug's book.

In fact, I'm almost convinced that the also ever so vaguely described "multimedia content" of the book and the rarities disc will be the same thing.
There may also exist the possibility that the multimedia thingy has the written orchestral scores in digital form, since Doug suggested, I think it was in the first thread, that releasing the written scores was not out of question.

As for the differentiation between a true alternate and a simple tweak in the music, I say this: if, to pick up Doug's example, the Cirith Ungol piece has an English Horn statement of the Ring theme over aleatoric strings, and the alternate (I suppose he means the current film version) is the same piece only without the Horn, then I think that does not qualify as a true alternate, but merely as a tweak in orchestration.

For me, a true alternate does really have to display a radical change in thematic identity, orchestration, or mood.

Oh, and Doug, am I right about the suggested release date being fall 2008?>>>

You, sir, are right about many things.

I will say this much… these LOTR projects have each proven themselves to be year-long endeavors. Remember way back when the idea of releasing all the CRs in the same year was floated around? Boy that dried up fast! It’s simply not possible. I think I’ve learned why so many releases get pushed into the market without much love or attention from their makers. Love and attention take a lot of time! I can’t tell you how lucky we’ve been to have Howard heading this up. The concept has never been, “Let’s get this thing done and on shelves and out of our hair!” It’s always, “Let’s do this right. Let’s let the quality dictate the timeframe.” That’s rare. Very rare. Doing something this way involves a huge number of people and a ton of resources. There are literally people all over the US working on this project right now. And often in the UK. And often in NZ.

So when I say it’s big—it’s a lot of work… believe me, I mean that on a global scale! I hope when all is said and done, people feel like it’s been worth it.

>>>He mentioned that basically all the music from the CR you also hear in the extended cut of the film. Is that right?
I thought there were a couple of outtakes, like the music for Gollum's transformation, the unused piece for Frodo in Mt. Doom and the destruction of Mordor?>>>

The compositions cut from the film will be in the CR, no worries.

Ok, that’s today’s post. See above and let me know what you thing of the Podcast w/ voicemail. I know it would be an overseas call for some of you, but hopefully a 1 minute call wouldn’t get too steep. And I suppose you could email an MP3 of yourself if need be.

Back to work!

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I hope when all is said and done, people feel like it’s been worth it.

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Fear not! You folks have already given us more than any human fan deserves!

Thank you Doug, and all working on this project. Taking the time to do it completely and correctly, while it might make us chafe a bit because of the long wait, is worth every minute listening to the music and reading the notations.

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Originally posted by Doug Adams:
I think I’ve learned why so many releases get pushed into the market without much love or attention from their makers. Love and attention take a lot of time! I can’t tell you how lucky we’ve been to have Howard heading this up. The concept has never been, “Let’s get this thing done and on shelves and out of our hair!” It’s always, “Let’s do this right. Let’s let the quality dictate the timeframe.” That’s rare. Very rare. Doing something this way involves a huge number of people and a ton of resources. There are literally people all over the US working on this project right now. And often in the UK. And often in NZ.

Back to work!

-Doug

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Does anyone ever commend you for being part of this amazing creative team that's been giving their very best these past years? I've heard Shore allude to you and your book in so many of his interviews, but you sure do deserve thanks from many other poeple (and us fans especially). After all, you're the one who takes time out of your work to actually talk more about it here on the forums. That's so commendable Doug. I suppose the enthusiasm (at least here on the forums) for these releases wouldn't be what it is today without you.

About the calling in for the podcast, I'd really love to do that, though it'd be quite something to do from India (but first I'm gonna go back and see how my voice sounds over the phone )

"[The written score] would be thousands and thousands of pages long"....drool

I still won't let myself believe the public will ever have access to a compiled CR version of the written score (no matter how expensive), but if this ever did come true, I would spend a pretty penny on it as much to thank Shore as I would to spend a lifetime reading along to the music, discovering more and more of it's hidden connections and gems. I hope as this project develops it is given the same love and care as the CR has been given, and is not rushed to the market, losing value along the way. Hey Doug, I doubt more than one person (Shore) will have a better understanding than you of the written score. Do you have a full-time job after you're finished your book? (hint, hint)

In the meantime, it's time to start saving my money for a trip to ____, where I can watch the film to the live score. I somehow doubt the premiere will be in Edmonton. I doubt any orchestra is capable of doing all three films together like Trilogy Tuesday, but a three-night event, ala The Ring Cycle, would be the experience of a lifetime (with Shore conducting).

Enough fantasizing, back to reality.

One question for Doug (when you have the time). I've asked it before, but the issue hadn't been settled at the time.

Will the Return of the King CR follow the original chronology of the film with Gandalf and Pippin arriving at Minas Tirith as Faramir and his men are retreating from Osgiliath, or will it follow the EE edit of the film, with the theatrical chronology?

As for his book(and presumably the CD's too), Doug Adams might not have said that he almost finished it(i think i got it wrong);i might have mistaken this for what DA said near TTT:CR realease-that his book will be launched not long after the last LOTR liner notes(ROTK:CR) are released.I just remember from this forum that smth will happen in early 2008. Eru,i hope so!

Howard Shore and Doug may have sorted out the things they want on that release already, as Doug mentioned some elaborate sessions some months ago, but that's all I think.

What has the music that was edited for the CR to do with the music that will be presented on the RD???
And what do you mean with "What's more to work at for another 52 weeks?"

Honestly, ARE YOU NUTS??
Digging through the archives, deciding, what's interesting enough to put it on the CDs, edit it, write a booklet (or whatever) to explain what we're hearing,...

Read Doug's posts again, for crying out loud!!!

*shakes her head in disbelieve*

Doug, please don't listen to him. Take as long as you need, I want this to be good ( and I have no doubts that it will be)!!

You've no idea of how grateful I am for your and Maestro Shore's enthusiasm and all the time you spend on this project(s).
I can't even express how glad I am that you treat this wonderful, awesome, brilliant, splendid, breathtaking, beautiful, marvelous, incredible, terrific, staggering, stunning, heart-stopping, jaw-dropping music the way you do.

Thank you, Maestro Shore and everyone else who works on this project so much!!
(God, I wish my english was better, so I could do my feelings justice...)

-Sabsi, in one of her more emotional moments..

PS: Of course I'm looking forward to another FSM CR-podcast!!!

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Originally posted by Crippled Avenger:
More than 1 CD!

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It may be another medium, if not CD. DVD would be the next most likely choice, though people wouldn't be able to burn it. Blu-ray and HD DVD are a stretch. Maybe we'll get one of them old phonograph records.

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Originally posted by Ge0rge:
Olorin, use Western encoding for this forum to avoid this (I think this was already discussed here not so many posts ago...)

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Wow, that was easy. Thanks!