[Minor spoilers]

The most memorable moments are the ones where the Sandman comes into existence, Spider-Man tears of his black suit and the final batlle.

[End spoilers]

The opening credits start exactly the same as part 1 and 2, but then changes to a mix of Young's score. During the movie Elfman's theme pops up every now and then but luckily it doesn't dominate the score. I'm really hoping for a score release later this year. From my point of view, this is the series' best score.

Now, I loved the piece in the cathedral and the Venom/Black Suit motif is great, too. Also, the rise of the Sandman I found very exciting (although this scene is very sterile, mainly due to the music, which cannot decide what it actually wants to achieve), but apart from that, the overall musical product was very very mediocre.

Yes, granted, there was some extensive tracking and re-scoring in SPidey 2 as well, but the difference is that in Spidey 2, it actually worked, whereas in Spidey 3, almost all of the tracked pieces sound out of place and are blatantly obvious.

Jeff's comment now has me interested. Was ho-hum about it until his comment, thanks to all the rumored news about what was happening in post production.

Previously I was interested to see if the new score delivers on that final note or two from Spiderman 2. I hadn't heard a score ever end like that.... it was like turning to the last page of a book, but seeing the first sentence or paragraph of the next book!

Can anyone comment on the relationship of the final moment of Spidey2 and the new score? Is there one?

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Can anyone comment on the relationship of the final moment of Spidey2 and the new score? Is there one?

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I don't quite know what you mean. If you think that last scene implied some problems between Peter and MJ in Spidey 3, then you're correct.
But score-wise, I don't see how that final scene should be a sign of things to come.

I thought the movie was still very good, but missed that one step that could have made it fantastic. Basically, I think, character-wise, everything went wrong as soon as the second act ended, respectively the third act started.

*SPOILERS*
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From the very beginning, I thought it would end with Peter, Harry and Gwen on the bridge, like in the comic book. With Norman dead, Harry dead and Gwen alive, this ending made pretty much no sense to me. That Harry turned to the good side was IMO a horrible, horrible mistake.
The taming of the symbionte was also quite uninteresting, and it bothered me a little that the great great scene in the cathedral was so wasted in the middle of the film. That should have been the ending.
Instead of trying their damnest to squeeze all three villains (Goblin included) into one climax, I say save one for a really thrilling one; like I said, either Gwen's death or the cathedral.

EDIT: No, no press screening. It was an official release. It's in cinemas all over Germany since Tuesday.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
What? Elfman's theme doesn't pop up so often???It plays every time Spidey swings through the frickin' air and during every scene that can remotely be called "heroic".

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Well, I've only seen the movie once, but I really had the impression that the theme was far less around than in the first two. Maybe that's because he wasn't swinging around so much.

As for the score in the film I agree with you. As a stand alone score I am pretty excited about it and looking forward to a release.

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Originally posted by tjguitar:
It seems odd than Ameircan-produced film would be shown out of the country initially.

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Originally posted by Kris:
BTW: The most hilarious scene in the whole movie is where Spidey is swinging to the rescue and briefly swings past a huge waving American flag. It might actually have been in slow motion. Everybody in the audience had to laugh. What was that about? I thought more of Sam Raimi.

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Originally posted by Jeron:

Gratuitous Patriotism?

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Jeez, Raimi and Sony are going to attack me with that again?! Even Bryan Singer had the courtesy to not include unbridled, saddlebagged patriotism in his still vastly underrated Superman Returns. Look, being a Spidey fan for most of my childhood I firmly understand that Spider-Man is strictly in American icon, being that he represents New York City; but the waving American flags in EVERY film is just too, too much. I knew that Woody Allen should have made these films. The city would have become an actual world for the characters to inhabit, and, most importantly, Peter Parker wouldn't spend all of his time being mopey and actually crack some witty puns every so often.

Can't wait to see it tonight amidst all of the ignorant fan boys claiming, "It's the best movie since Spider-Man 2!"

END SPOILER

Then about the movie. I never thought someone could change the Venom storyline to a point where it was almost ruined, but Raimi proved me wrong. I still don't think it's as horrible as many think because in the end, the movie meant to portray Venom not really as a purely physical villain, but rather as a manifestation of Peter's fight with himself, and for that, the appearance he (and the alien costume) had was sufficient.
What I *do* have a huge problem with, however, is the presentation of the alien costume and how it plays out in the film. More precisely, how it is portrayed, and by that I also mean the design.
The whole point of it is that, being a symbionte, it merges with your body and mind, and reacts to your thoughts. You carry it with you, all the time; it morphs into any kind of clothing you want, Spidey can put his costume on any time, any place.
It's not at all about having an extra black suit in a box in your closet.
The word "symbionte" is explained by Doc Connors, and therefor the movie is completely illogical. If you use the concept of a symbionte, it's simply not possible for Peter to feel sorry or apologise for something he's done due to the influence of the black suit. He can't simply put the influence of the symbionte away together with the suit.

Simply put: the alien would have done the same to Peter what it did to Brock.

Talking about Brock; there's absolutely no reason for him to have this kind of hostile feelings towards Peter. Yes, he goes out with his girl (once), he got him fired from the Bugle, but that's not enough to wish him dead, let alone go to church and pray for it!

The movie could have been great, but it loses itself in a web of wrong concepts and character constellations.
I would have dropped the Sandman completely, and cast Thomas Haden Church as Eddie Brock. He looks exactly like in the comics, and has the physicality.
Also, I wouldn't have started the movie with that goofy narration, but with Jameson on the moon, carrying the alien to earth. That would have put the right emphasis on the film from the get go.
Also, I wouldn't have Harry forgive Peter, but instead let him kill Gwen like in the comic book. Out of pure rage, Peter could have killed Harry. Afterwards, he realises what the costume has done to him, he consults Connors, swings to the cathedral, gets rid of the costume, Venom is created, and the two of them have a final all-out brawl (on a graveyard maybe?)

If you want to count Danny Elfman for the Spidey 1 and 2 stuff, then there were four composers working on this: Danny-O, Christopher Young, John Debney and some gal whose name I don't remember.
As far as I know, the studio even paid two orchestra sessions to re-record some of Elfman's themes from the first two films.

The fanfare for the symbionte is fitting, but sounds SO much like X-Men that I wonder whether Young actually had much enthusiasm going into this film.

gkgyver - who still found no reason for Gwen being alive after both Goblins are dead.

The Film: 5.5 to 6.0 out of 10.0
The Score: Let me hear it!

THE FILM
- Good
* Bruce Campbell's excellent cameo.
* JK Simmons' first scene...
You're probably noticing a problem here - these are both tertiary characters...
* Sandman's birth... minus the circumstances of it and the motivation for his robberies. (Exactly what medical procedure would require millions of dollars? He can't keep needing to rob after he's knocked over ONE ARMOURED TRUCK, unless it was full of bearer bonds.)
* The way the texture of the Venom costume was handled - would that the Spiderman black costume was shown off like that. (It rarely behaves like a symbiote when attached to Spiderman.)
* Performances of Topher Grace (perhaps should have been replacing Maguire for this one?), Bryce Dallas Howard, Kirsten Dunst (minus the singing in the bar at the end),
* The Peter-Harry fights.

- Bad
* 'We aren't Venom, we don't have an unusual voice, we have no development, and now we aren't even going to be recycled in a sequel.' This villain was poorly developed, and I constantly had to explain things about him as the final fight rolled around to my girlfriend.
* Sandman was never going to be the meat for a great personal arc for Spiderman, unlike Green Goblin (father of his best friend) or Doc Ock (someone he admired and had pity on). To attempt to make him one with a red herring story with Uncle Ben was incredibly well-intentioned, but also incredibly stupid.
* Harry should have chosen to help Peter without the intervention of the butler. Peter's remark about Harry making a choice is wishful thinking unless Harry intervened despite thinking the worst of Peter.
* Dancing can be the sweetest form of vengeance. Say whaa???
* I can count on one hand the number of times Spiderman had his mask in this film.
* Narcissism as the root of Spiderman's duality issue sounds like an academic paper. But the exploration of this in the film was far from anything like the depth such an idea needed. And as I've noted above, the vengeance part felt contrived... not sure what I would have done, but they really really missed the possibilities of the duality aspect.
* Too much going on, with everything spread too thin... that's my blanket criticism. Again with Venom - much as I liked Topher Grace, I hated the shoddy way this character was developed and dropped. How is it possible that Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow in BATMAN BEGINS achieved so much more with a comparably spare amount of running time?
* Not another missed phone call!
* So much of this script hangs on coincidence... from the meteor, to Venom's birth, to the 'proposal' scene... it does wear you out with its arbitrariness.

- Ugly
* Spiderman with dashes of Rebel without a Cause, Grease and Saturday Nigt fever... what were they thinking? It's interesting to say the least, and for that reason I count it as ugly rather than bad.
* The news telecast as expositional ('lets hurry up the third act'). Actually, this was just bad, but I thought I'd put it here.
* Why bother to cast James Cromwell? Or Bryce Dallas Howard? (Or Topher Grace for that matter.)

THE SCORE

- The Good
* The score does try to suit the film's quirks. If there's going to be a real REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE / SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER streak to it, then Young comes along for the ride. Accordingly, there's a dark funkiness to the dance-step that dominates Sandman's theme. And as others have noted, there's band-like rumble feel to some of the Harry / Peter clashing that made me think of North and Rosenman's tumultuous jazzy-orchestral fusion in REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE ('Knife Fight') and others scores. (It's a very different sound to 'Knife Fight', but it did make me think of that idiom fusion.)
* There's also a very strong gothic taste to the cues that accompany the creation of the villians. Those arpeggios as Black Spiderman heads up to the spire of the church, the horrorish-twist as Venom is subsequently born. Similarly, there's a dark, almost gothic romance to the Sandman birth cue that reminds me very much of Catwoman's birth from BATMAN RETURNS (musically, that is).
* The reprisal of the Goblin theme was good, even if having so many character themes around led to an overly leitmotific approach to the final battle cues.

- The Bad
* The umpteenth tracking of the Mary-Peter love theme, and the Aunt May theme... never again, please!
* The cut and paste work in general - it stands out even when you're trying not to notice it.
* I like the idea at the root of the Black Spiderman theme, and I'll certainly welcome a disc with its first extravagant appearance in the film... but in the film, the moment Spiderman has that suit on, it's all out in the orchestra - we've hit heights already that the music really shouldn't have until Black Spiderman comes close to killing Sandman and later when he goes to the top of the church to... well it's not clear what he goes there for, actually. (Though it is clear what happens as an fortunate by-product.) There should have been more of an arc of development in this theme, and it makes Young come off as very unsubtle next to Elfman. (Compare Elfman's development of themes for villains in the first 2 films.)

- The Ugly
* Elfman and Young really don't mix, and since Danny's music feels at home in this world, there's always a slight sense that Young is coming from outside the picture.
* Danny Elfman is a more subtle scorer than Christopher Young. This message comes through from the 'Main Titles' onwards in SPIDERMAN 3. I imagine when we hear the unused love theme Young wrote, it will make Elfman's love theme come across as a wisp of a melody in comparison... and if it does, it won't surprise me that it was thrown out. This sort of stuff straddles a thin line between teen drama and comic book fantasy... the more restrained the music is, the closer it feels to the former, and I'd argue that Elfman's music does that in the dramatic scenes. The more expressive the music is, the closer it is to comic book fantasy, which limits their market more.

I've seen the film twice and I know full well what Chris Young has done.

Ryan

We both were very much annoyed with this movie.

And I for one miss Elfman composing.

I hope this is not a sign of the movies to come this summer.

Huge let down for me. While I like some of what was in the movie (both film and score) overall a big disapoiment for me.

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Originally posted by Crono/Kyp:

I hope this is not a sign of the movies to come this summer.

--Brian

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Wait until you see SHREK THE THIRD. Beautifully made, but not very well written or funny.

James

I haven't seen SPIDER-MAN 3 yet. And I can tell you after the last PIRATES movie, I'm not too excited about this one.

But seriously, I just watched an international version of the film (a french one actually), and the end credits (at least the part that was, ahem, "available") had score. What is that all about?
Our German version only has a melange of all the crappy songs from the album.

In a nutshell - loved the score, but not too excited about the film.

(spoilers of course)

Score
I thought there was just he right amount of Elfman stuff. The heroic scenes couldn't stir the same emotions without the main theme, and the opening of the main titles was gladly only slightly altered. Plus the Ben parker theme and love theme were used as appropriate, as well as loads and loads of the Goblin theme.

The two pieces that I liked most were the birth of Sandman and the first scenes with the black spiderman suit. And as mentioned above the Gothic music for the church tower sequence was great. Can't remember much of the music from the climactic threesome, but I remember liking the music during the first duel between Parker and Harry.

I was also very disappointed that the film didn't end with a flourish like the previous 2 - those last 30 secs were my favourite parts of both previous movies, but this one (albeit maybe appropriately) ended with a whimper)

Film
Felt too crowded and long in my opinion. The whole 'hair down' sequences were painful to watch. And the feeling that they had to have 2 (or 3) villains in there just to top the 2nd film, without however giving them enough introduction or explanation.

And that American flag scene was the number one groan-inducer. Did Bush pay for that? And what on earth was a truckload of sand doing in the middle of Manhattan?

On a positive note, I thought the effects were quite impressive, as were most of the supporting cast. Bruce Campbell's cameo was brilliant, as in the 2nd film. I also caught sight of Christopher Young standing at the piano.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Who the hell is this Bruce Campbell everyone mentions?

I think it was always mainly the supporting cast that made Spider-Man very entertaining. I can't tell you how much I love J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson.

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Originally posted by Camillu:

He was Ash in Army of Darkness, and so Raimi gives him a cameo each time - he was the wrestling announcer in 1 and the hilarious doorman in 2.

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More on this: he's played Ash in The Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2; he's also appeared in most of Raimi's films. They were childhood friends, along with the other Raimi siblings (Ted appears in the Spidey films as Hoffman, Ivan helped write the story/screenplay with Sam and Alvin Sargent) and producer Rob Tapert. Both Bruce Campbell and Ted Raimi are now the only things I will look forward to when seeing a new Sam Raimi film. I would never have imagined myself saying this, seeing as how I love the Evil Dead series, Crimewave, The Hudsucker Proxy, and A Simple Plan. It's going to take the Coen Brothers to revive him; because he must have been killed somewhere during the production of Spider-Man 3.