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Author	Topic: LOTR Package Update

Sabsi Standard Userer	6th row Ralo, maybe we'll meet each other there - would be cool ^^ (my seat number is 169 and yours?) I already booked my flight, but I still have to find a cheap hotel near the Konserthuset - any suggestions?? -Sabsi [Message edited by Sabsi on 10-25-2007]
posted 10-25-2007 10:20 AM PT (US)

Ralo Non-Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Sabsi: 6th row Ralo, maybe we'll meet each other there - would be cool ^^ I already booked my flight, but I still have to find a cheap hotel near the Konzerthuset - any suggestions?? Yeah, that would be cool. How old are you by the way? I'm only 18. I haven't visit this hotel myself but I have only heard good things about it from people who stayed there. http://www.hotellstrindberg.se/index_big.html It is about 5-10 minutes walk from Konserthuset, quite near everything but still in a quiet area. I think it will suit you quite well.
posted 10-25-2007 10:58 AM PT (US)

StarlessWinter Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by franz_conrad: Those more recent scores, like the LOTR scores, suffer from the modern fantasy/spectacular film-maker's over-scoring bias. How is it "overscoring?" And why just write an underscore when you can actually tell the story through the music? A theme played "verbatim" every time doesn't tell you what's going on; it only lets you know that whatever it represents is now on screen. But, like a story, the development of a theme can tell you the journey of whatever it represents. That is musical storytelling to a high degree.
posted 10-25-2007 11:12 AM PT (US)

Strider1002 Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by StarlessWinter: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by franz_conrad: [b]Those more recent scores, like the LOTR scores, suffer from the modern fantasy/spectacular film-maker's over-scoring bias. <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> How is it "overscoring?" And why just write an underscore when you can actually tell the story through the music? A theme played "verbatim" every time doesn't tell you what's going on; it only lets you know that whatever it represents is now on screen. But, like a story, the development of a theme can tell you the journey of whatever it represents. That is musical storytelling to a high degree. [/B] Exactly.
posted 10-25-2007 12:51 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	I meant 'overscoring' in the sense that 95% of the film has music. I'd tend towards a lower percentage just to keep the sound design dynamic and the music as effective as it can be at any given moment. Most films these days have too much music. There have been periods when more selective spotting prevailed. (Even in the films Shore does for Cronenberg and Scorsese are a lot more selective in their spotting.)
posted 10-25-2007 04:32 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Magpie: How's that Sil screenplay coming, Michael? I realised it might not please the crowd when I included a 20 minute long conversation between Felagund and the human woman (from Book 10 of the History of Middle Earth) in the middle! Not enough battle scenes in my version... J/k. It churns away in the back of my head. There are other tales I've prioritised first as a script-writer, and no small reason for that is that I control the copyright on my own thoughts. (And the budgetary demands too, while we're at it.) If I ever did make it (admittedly a bit of a pipe dream, but it's nice to dream, right?), the composer would be... hard to say, actually. If we're looking at 20 years from now, some of the big hitters of today may no longer be with us. Certainly Kilar will not be, nor Williams, nor Morricone. Perhaps Goldenthal and/or Desplat will still be there? Lovely to 'see' you too Marilynn. I've been conversing a little with our friend Narendur (Christian) over at one of the other message boards on LOTR music lately, and why I've been a bit silent. Do you still have any contact with Jelle, Kurt (or was it Curt ), and Rene? (Not to mention the others!)
posted 10-25-2007 04:42 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	I think you are right, Lord of the Rings could have done with a couple (although not many) minutes of music less. Prime example is Shelob's Lair part two, when Shelob sneaks up on Frodo above him. Shore wrote music for that you can hear it on the CR, but it's not in the film. Mount Doom is another example, where I think there should have been complete silence until The End Of All Things starts. That the music Shore wrote for that isn't in the film either was a right decision. And the minute before that there shouldn't have been music either. That is, however, if you consider and look at Lord of the Rings as nothing but a film score, there to back up the imagery and nothing else. And I certainly know where the folks who think like this are coming from; but by Shore's own definition, it isn't just a film score. He mentions at any given opportunity that he wanted to create something similar to an opera, and an opera has seldomly stretches without music, if any at all. And if you pick up the concepts of opera a la Wagner, themes and motifs are there to tell the story, the music mirrors the story, at any time and in any given scene. In this case, the music IS the story, so with that concept in mind, you can't simply leave a scene without music because that would mean no music = no story. I hope you know what I mean. It's an unusual concept for a film score for sure, but the result speaks for itself. I understand that PJ and his assistant editors dropped a few cues for dramatic, cinematic reasons, but if you want to be picky, that was not Howard Shore's original goal. And that's what these CRs are for, to present his vision as originally intended.
posted 10-25-2007 06:33 PM PT (US)

Magpie Standard Userer	quote: Do you still have any contact with Jelle, Kurt (or was it Curt ), and Rene? (Not to mention the others!)[/B] I think the last of the bunch I heard from was Curtis who dropped by SMME to say 'ta' when I declared the forum dead. But I haven't heard from any of them for a long time. The young always have lots of adventures ahead of them. I'm happy to drift around in one spot for a longer time. Besides, my OCD won't let me leave until I finish.
posted 10-25-2007 07:08 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by gkgyver: That is, however, if you consider and look at Lord of the Rings as nothing but a film score, there to back up the imagery and nothing else. And I certainly know where the folks who think like this are coming from I feel the tension myself... a parallel storytelling entirely in music VS music as an element of the cinematic storytelling through sound and image. I'm obviously on this forum because I like good music... and musical storytelling... though sometimes in a film I feel the tension. (THE FOUNTAIN was a recent case - I liked the album, but I felt the score let the film down a bit.)
posted 10-25-2007 09:51 PM PT (US)

franz_conrad Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Magpie: *Besides, my OCD won't let me leave until I finish.* You must let me know when the day comes. I remember part of the reason I 'gave up' looking into the minutae of LOTR music was that I felt Doug's book was 'just around the corner'. Who would have thought in mid-2004 that come late-2007, we would still have not read 'the book'. What other things are fascinating you these days? Have you read the CHILDREN OF HURIN novel? I've been curious how much of it feels like Tolkien, and how much feels like Chris Tolkien, but haven't had a chance to get into it yet.
posted 10-25-2007 11:59 PM PT (US)

Christian K�hn Standard Userer	Hello, I'm new here. Would somebody please re-cap all that has transpired in the past few days? CK, who actually thinks that Tom Daish and James Southall have a point
posted 10-26-2007 09:15 AM PT (US)

Magpie Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by franz_conrad: Originally posted by Magpie: Besides, my OCD won't let me leave until I finish. You must let me know when the day comes. Ha... that makes me laugh because I know you get me very well. I'm reminded of this excerpt from a radio interview that Howard gave. http://www.geocities.com/magpie930/temp_sound_clips/It_must_stop_now.mp3 quote: Originally posted by franz_conrad: I remember part of the reason I 'gave up' looking into the minutae of LOTR music was that I felt Doug's book was 'just around the corner'. Who would have thought in mid-2004 that come late-2007, we would still have not read 'the book'. What other things are fascinating you these days? Have you read the CHILDREN OF HURIN novel? I've been curious how much of it feels like Tolkien, and how much feels like Chris Tolkien, but haven't had a chance to get into it yet. I also had that thought of, 'why continue... it's all coming out in a book soon.' Well, not only was it not coming out 'soon', I realized that I was approaching things a little differently. Once I see what the book holds, I may take things in a different direction... or just let it drop. End. Finish. Who knows. What else am I doing? Other than some personal graphic design and home improvement projects, nothing terribly exciting. Some of the graphic design projects are showing up as easter eggs on my site. Children of Hurin: a friend gave it to me for my birthday and my husband just yelled up, "There's something here from Amazon." so it's arrived. I will start reading it with her. I've read the versions in the Sil and UT so we'll see how it goes. [Message edited by Magpie on 10-26-2007]
posted 10-26-2007 02:10 PM PT (US)

Cavalier_of_Palahndt�s Standard Userer	Alright guys, help me out here...I'm 12 pages behind but I don't want to read about the RotK: CR (all thanks to stinking Streaming Soundtracks), so what should I do? I'm gonna be loving the set when it arrives, unlike all of you who have already spoiled it by listening to it on Streaming Soundtracks! It'll be new and fresh to my ears (and anyone else who hasn't listened to it yet) but not your ears! You all should've been patient. Learn from Yoda you must, yes? I'm not saying you won't like it...it'll just be less exciting. You may not believe me, but I know. I already had a similar experience and I've learned my lesson. Yoda has taught me patience.
posted 10-26-2007 08:15 PM PT (US)

Ge0rge Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Cavalier_of_Palahndt�s: Alright guys, help me out here...I'm 12 pages behind but I don't want to read about the RotK: CR (all thanks to stinking Streaming Soundtracks), so what should I do? I'm gonna be loving the set when it arrives, unlike all of you who have already spoiled it by listening to it on Streaming Soundtracks! It'll be new and fresh to my ears (and anyone else who hasn't listened to it yet) but not your ears! You all should've been patient. Learn from Yoda you must, yes? I'm not saying you won't like it...it'll just be less exciting. You may not believe me, but I know. I already had a similar experience and I've learned my lesson. Yoda has taught me patience. what to spoil? Where you honest enough not to hear the OST and the film? And the SEE DVD? If so - then you're a fake jedi! The only spoiler to me was a release date change, but I can cope with it - isn't it the lesser part of the score that we have out there?!
posted 10-27-2007 02:51 AM PT (US)

Incanus Standard Userer	And the Stockholm LotR symphony concert is sold out! Damn my procrastination! I was in the middle of making the decision whether to go or not and I was heavily leaning on going!!! Now I demand a full report from you who are going (at least Ralo and Sabsi) with pictures preferably. And say Mr. Shore hello from all of us fans!
posted 10-27-2007 06:40 AM PT (US)

Magpie Standard Userer	If I'm not mistaken, Sabsi's had her picture taken with Shore at a previous concert. Am I right, Sabsi?
posted 10-27-2007 09:00 AM PT (US)

Sabsi Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Magpie: If I'm not mistaken, Sabsi's had her picture taken with Shore at a previous concert. Am I right, Sabsi? Yes, you're right and I intend to let him sign it this time It was on March 16th 2007 8.14 p.m. in Lucerne, Switzerland. I'll remember that day - that day, life was good For those of you, who haven't seen them yet: Here is the 'famous' picture,this is a picture of him signing autographs and here and here is a pic of him on the stage I watched the bonus DVD from the ROTK LE soundtrack last night. "Use Well the Days: A Behind the Scenes Portrait" is dedicated to Winston. Sorry for being so ignorant, but who is/was Winston?? -Sabsi, who spent the whole afternoon/evening listening to the FotR- and TT-CR back-to-back PS:Btw, Ralo, I'm 22. [Message edited by Sabsi on 10-27-2007]
posted 10-27-2007 01:25 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	Maestro Shore looks ... slightly befuddled LOL And enchanted! No wonder, with that enchanting person on his side
posted 10-27-2007 03:47 PM PT (US)

Strider1002 Standard Userer	Here's a question for everyone: when you listen to the CRs, what volume do you prefer to have them at? Like, background music volume, or floor-shakingly loud... or somewhere in between?
posted 10-28-2007 07:16 AM PT (US)

NeoVoyager Standard Userer	Well, I personally never listen to any music as background music. I pretty much never turn it on unless I have a substantial amount of attention to give to it. The CRs are the same, except perhaps more so. I don't play them room-shakingly loudly (I'm very careful with my ears), but I give them as much of my full attention as possible whenever I do.
posted 10-28-2007 10:01 AM PT (US)

Thorf Standard Userer	I do both, depending on my mood and what else I have to do. If I have the time and want to just listen, I put it pretty loud. My speakers aren't that great, and they don't go that loud, but if I had a good sound system ideally I'd like to listen to everything at something approximating actual volume - as if I'm there in the recording studio. On the other hand, if I don't have time to just listen, or if I have something else to do, I very often listen to music in the background. For the past year, more often than not that music has been a playlist consisting of all the OSTs and the first two CRs. If I can, I listen to music 24 hours a day, so really it's a mixture of active and passive listening.
posted 10-28-2007 10:24 AM PT (US)

Blue Dude Non-Standard Userer	I've only recently had the capability of playing the DVD-Audio content of the CR DVD's, so I'm a pretty recent convert for uncompressed surround audio. But most of us should have the capability of playing the DVD-Video side and thus playing the CR's in 5.1 surround. My question is: how many people on here have done this? Or is casual listening on an iPod good enough? I know the music doesn't change, but for sure the quality of the presentation does. Listening in 5.1 on good speakers is heavenly but inconvenient. You need to make an appointment. It's worth it I think but it's hard to clear my schedule. Listening to the CD's in my car or worse, MP3's on a portable player, is far more convenient but the quality of the presentation suffers mightily. (FLAC on the computer isn't bad but the headphones are terrible). Nothing beats the you-are-there presentation of the DVD-Audio on good speakers though. Be honest, how many here have done so?
posted 10-28-2007 03:28 PM PT (US)

Sabsi Standard Userer	I experienced a CR-Double-Feature in 5.1 surround yesterday - and it was 'floor-shakingly' loud My neighbors are great, they did not complain about it (I think I heard some knocks at the wall though...) I listen to 5.1 at least once a week (saturday became my 5.1 day), it is 'heavenly' indeed. nod quote: Maestro Shore looks ... slightly befuddled. And enchanted! No wonder, with that enchanting person on his side LOL Bootlicker! I look terrible. I had to get up at 3.30am to catch my flight to Z�rich and I started to pack my bag at 10pm the night before. Go figure how many hours of sleep I got... Anyway, I think he looks 'befuddled' because he couldn't believe how long it took for my camera/flash to get ready (Note for Sabsi: Buy a new camera before you fly to Stockholm!) -Sabsi, who can't wait for a floor-shakingly loud CR-Triple-Feature [Message edited by Sabsi on 10-28-2007]
posted 10-28-2007 05:57 PM PT (US)

Crippled Avenger Non-Standard Userer	I almost always listen to it on 5.1 DVD. I have a home business and my 'office' is within my home theatre speaker system so I am spoiled by the presentation on a regular basis. I've only ever touched the CDs to rip them onto my ipod (and when I listen on ipod on the bus, the quiet moments are practically inaudible, making for a frustrating listening experience). For that matter, I've only ever touched the original DVD in order to make a duplicate copy, which is what I actually use. That way I never have to fuddle with that awful plastic nub, and never have to worry about scratching the precious. Although, as great as 5.1 is with good speakers, there's something to be said for good headphones as well. I find when I'm listening analytically, headphones provide a clarity for the supporting instruments not taking the melody that cannot be matched by bouncing around 5.1 speaker soundwaves in an open room. BTW, all power and respect to those listening to ROTK on streaming soundtrack, but I could never do that. I haven't listened to ROTK OST for nearly half a year, I think. I'm planning on turning off my phone and turning off the lights for my first house-shaking DVD experience of the final 4 hours. But again, no disrespect to the early listeners. Simply a matter of personality and preference.
posted 10-29-2007 12:27 AM PT (US)

Shire Bagginz Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Crippled Avenger: BTW, all power and respect to those listening to ROTK on streaming soundtrack, but I could never do that. I haven't listened to ROTK OST for nearly half a year, I think. I'm planning on turning off my phone and turning off the lights for my first house-shaking DVD experience of the final 4 hours. But again, no disrespect to the early listeners. Simply a matter of personality and preference. Well said, I feel the same way. I try to listen to the 5.1 mixes whenever I can (usually at floor shakingly loud levels), but I mostly listen to the cd's in my car actually. It is a bit annoying when the quiet parts are drowned out by every other noise, but I still find it very satisfying. I have a six cd changer in my car, and you can all guess what six glorious discs will be spinning in it until 11/13. [Message edited by Shire Bagginz on 10-29-2007]
posted 10-29-2007 01:20 AM PT (US)

Shire Bagginz Standard Userer	Not sure if this has already been talked about here but here is a well put review from a non-die hard fan... http://www.scorenotes.com/soundtracks/lotr_king.html
posted 10-29-2007 01:25 AM PT (US)

Thorf Standard Userer	I finally thought of a question for Doug's podcast. It's pretty simplistic but I'm sure Doug can come up with a good answer if he uses it. Well, we're almost into November. Just about two weeks and we'll all (start to) receive our copies of the set.
posted 10-29-2007 04:26 AM PT (US)

vdemona Standard Userer	If they hadn't pushed them back we'd have them by next week. Not complaining though, not complaining! The week of the 13th actually falls on a payday week for me so it actually works out better.
posted 10-29-2007 07:05 PM PT (US)

gkgyver Standard Userer	quote: LOL Bootlicker! I look terrible. I had to get up at 3.30am to catch my flight to Z�rich and I started to pack my bag at 10pm the night before. Go figure how many hours of sleep I got... That may be so, but you still look terrific! Hey, always speak your mind, don't you think? No? Well, learn to live with it By the way, don't say "bootlicker", that creates weird associations ... EDIT: With all the beauty talk I almost forgot to ask Does the postponed release date mean we will get the podcast a little later as well? I hope not! [Message edited by gkgyver on 10-29-2007]
posted 10-29-2007 08:00 PM PT (US)

Ralo Non-Standard Userer	I know that this is a bit off topic (if only a little bit) but can you watch this and tell me what you think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRqPdNwjg5s It would be great to have opinions from people who know about this thing. I'm working on part 2 right now but it's going very slowly since I don't have that much spare time.
posted 10-30-2007 04:08 AM PT (US)

Doug Adams Standard Userer	Hi everyone, Quick note, there�s a new FSM Podcast up today (our Halloween Special, check it out at http://cdn.libsyn.com/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_029.mp3 if you�re so inclined). ROTK is up next, don�t worry. I�ve got a ton of questions, but can take submissions through the end of the week, so last call! See you all soon, -Doug
posted 10-30-2007 07:32 AM PT (US)

Thorf Standard Userer	Great podcast, Doug! I always really enjoy the podcasts where you educate us/open our eyes to some strange and wonderful facet of film score music that has been sitting in front of us all this time without being noticed. It almost feels as if you are a music lecturer giving fascinating talks to us students of film music. :-) Please keep it up!
posted 10-30-2007 08:30 AM PT (US)

BattleToTheEnd Standard Userer	What the heck! I can't open the podcast, this is not cool...
posted 10-30-2007 03:22 PM PT (US)

Aman from Middle-Earth Non-Standard Userer	For the podcast, they talk about the "Dies Irae" theme. They forgot to mention a theme from the Fellowship...during the ringwraiths scene when Frodo gets stabbed. That bears striking similarities to "Dies Irae."
posted 10-30-2007 06:24 PM PT (US)

Wedge Standard Userer	I assume you're referring to the "descending thirds" line? Apart from having eight evenly-spaced quarter notes in common, and a general sense of descending (which is much more ambiguous in the Dies Irae) I don't see any significant musical similarities, let alone striking ones. There's a simplicity and elegance to both lines, and, emotionally speaking, they both evoke a certain darkness. That may make them "simpatico" to a degree, but I don't think it qualifies the LOTR line for inclusion in a podcast about specific quotes/allusions to the Dies Irae melody.
posted 10-31-2007 12:49 PM PT (US)

Aman from Middle-Earth Non-Standard Userer	Well...I should've said that there is a small similarity with both themes.
posted 10-31-2007 03:48 PM PT (US)

THX 1138 4eb Standard Userer	Hello Doug, Are you going to release the Annotated Film Score Notes on 6 or 7 of November, or do we have to wait until 13 November......I'm not complaing either way, as I live in Australia, and I will not receive my recordings straight away.....but as the original release date was meant to be the 6 or 7 of November......will this be the case??? ALL THE BEST To YOU ALL!!!!!!
posted 11-01-2007 04:33 AM PT (US)

Earl Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by THX 1138 4eb: Hello Doug, Are you going to release the Annotated Film Score Notes on 6 or 7 of November, or do we have to wait until 13 November......I'm not complaing either way, as I live in Australia, and I will not receive my recordings straight away.....but as the original release date was meant to be the 6 or 7 of November......will this be the case??? ALL THE BEST To YOU ALL!!!!!! Methinks the podcast will be out on the 6th and the Annotated Score on release day. But that's just my guess...
posted 11-01-2007 06:22 AM PT (US)

Horner Non-Standard Userer	So, my copy got shipped today! Should be in my letterbox tomorrow or on Saturday! This is going to be a fantastic weekend! Cheers from automly Switzerland,
posted 11-01-2007 06:37 AM PT (US)

Earl Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Horner: So, my copy got shipped today! Should be in my letterbox tomorrow or on Saturday! This is going to be a fantastic weekend! Cheers from automly Switzerland, Wha... howww???
posted 11-01-2007 07:49 AM PT (US)

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