[Message edited by Sid2000 on 10-11-2007]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great news !!
Thank you Amazon.de european they aren't still sleeping !!

there"s Bilbo's Song as a announce of song we didn't know it should be in the CR

7. The Green Dragon [Featuring Billy boyd and Dominic Monaghan]
12. The Grace Of UndÓmiel [Featuring Renée Fleming
16. Osgiliath Invaded [Featuring Ben Del Maestro]
19. The Sacrifice Of Faramir [Featurin billy boyd]
40. The Houses Of Healing [Featuring Liv tyler]
44. The Mouth Of Sauron [Featuring Sir james galway)
46. Mount Doom [Featuring Renée Fleming ]
48. The Eagles [Featuring Renée Fleming ]
49. The Fellowship Reunited [Featuring Renée Fleming ]
50. The Journey To The Grey Havens [Feturing ??] help
51. Elanor [Featuring Sir James Galway]
52. Days Of The Ring [Featuring Annie Lennox I love her too*]

This is a lot of features maybe one tracks has not only one feature, I don't see Sissel

* in few word : I was a fan of Bjork before the LOTR'S movies and I am alway one. what's happen with her and witch was the project Howard Shore Belonged for this Wonderfull singer !!
I hear her singing a song while : "36. Dernhelm In Battle" (this is a dream) and I am really deceive of her absence !
what's happened DOUG ADAMS ?

Oh and:
42. The Last Debate [Featuring Sissel
50. The Journey To The Grey Havens [Featuring Sir James Galway]

And sorry for the WALLABIES !! They no did a great performance in the World Cup of Rugby that's beeing in My country.

I feel a final with FRANCE/UK against the SPRINGBOKS*
(*South africa the bournland of JRRT. they will play the semi final against the PUMA of Argentina )

UK= TEAM of the ROSE and FRANCE is the TEAM of the "COQ" (cock)

There is a cock at one of the greater moment of the book (just before Rohan arrives at Minas Tirith). It is not in the movie nor some Walabbies excepted Miranda otto, Hugo Weaving and David wenham
et an "All black" among other : Peter Jackson

Uh!

2. Journey To The Cross-roads

Yay!

4. The Foot Of Orthanc

Uh!

6. The Chalice Passed

Eh? (Shouldn't that have been Drunken Rohirrim? )

13. The Eyes Of The White Tower

Ah?

14. A Coronal Of Silver And Gold

Eh?

15. The Lighting Of The Beacons

Oh!

16. Osgiliath Invaded [Featuring Ben D

Oooooh!

19. The Sacrifice Of Faramir

Oh!

24. Dwimorberg - The Haunted Mountain

Everybody knows that!

27. The Siege Of Gondor

Oooooooohhhhhhhhh!

28. Shelobs Lair

So they kept titles from the OST this time around?

30. Grond - The Hammer Of The Underwor

Ooooohhh!

33. The Battle Of The Pelennor Fields

Pre-scoregasming!

35. The Mûmakil

Yup.

36. Dernhelm In Battle

Eh?

37. A Far Green Country

Ah!

39. The Passing Of Théoden

Ooooh!

45. For Frodo [Featuring Ben Del Maestro]

Hell yeah! But I thought Ben's only appearance was during the Battle of Osgiliath? [thinking] Oh, yes, The Eagles refers to their rescuing Froso and Sam, silly me...

46. Mount Doom

So we're not talking about a continuous sequence here? Odd.

47. The Crack Of Doom

Oooohhh!

51. Elanor [Featuring Sir James Galway

Ooohh!

53. Bilbos Song

God yes!

CK

PS: Romuald....JUST SIMMER DOWN! Or I'll invade France -again- and *make* you simmer down...

[Message edited by Christian Kühn on 10-11-2007][/B]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

invade... ???

...

it's just figurafive !!

Me I am already invade you to see the LOTR's SYMPHONY at the KOELNARENA (Don't ask fotr witch city that's belong, please!!!) I have take back a stone from the rhein river and it's red, they are no gold in the rhein only red stones that's become iron and finally can sometime become back red very red !! as every know it.
I don't know where to put it in a deep plinth Maybe you will give me an idea if you invade me ! the similar go to the similar..

[Message edited by dambedir on 10-11-2007]

One of the thing that happened in this century is a divergence between those who make allegiance to the music with program as Litz (the father of the Richard Wagners wife's) and other have remaind classical in the line of Chopin who was great (and still he is of course) at the beggining of the 19TH Century. while some as Berlioz are famous without really taking part to this war between modern and classical musicians.

There is also an Opera than I can't do not quote it's "LAKHME" from LEO DELIBES. When I hear Nathalie Dessay singing the song "LES CLOCHETTES" I can't stop myself thinking that a day TOLKIEN see and hear this Opera and was inspired of it to assign at Luthien a really great voice and skill to sing.

And to finish I think that averybody loving soundtrack know "Also sprach Zarathustra" from Richard Strauss a musician who have won (I have read) to reconcile the fracture there was between the modern and the classical.

(An other Strauss is in the music of the LOTR that is at the end of the Track "The Wolf of Isendarg" that is seeming with something like Aragorn dancing and Waltzing with a Wolf of Isengard. that belong from the 18th century and are ispired from Johann Strauss and his son (they are not in the same family with richard strauss). and I like that)

My question is how the LOTR'S music can be placed into this facts of the history of the music. is it taking part to a side or an another. (what's music with program really ?). Are there something totaly modern to your view in this music. there is something from the 20th or 21th century ?

This is a question for Doug Adams

This obviously is a typo on the part of amazon. Maybe I'm an idiot, but Days of the King seems like such a beautiful title for a piece of music that has no visuals. Conjures up beautiful images in my mind of the peace in Middle-earth while the Ring-bearers pass Into The West. Very beautiful. Doug, might I ask who came up with this title? (Of course, if you are permitted to reveal that.)

Bilbo's Song

So does this song actually just come up after the entire end credits material. I think probably it plays directly after Into The West and ends with that tribute to Wagner. But on second thoughts, that doesn't represent the way Shore wrote this music. So maybe it just plays as a standalone piece at the end. No complaints either way.

Dude...your posts are becoming increasingly confusing. Yes, the latter part of "The Wolves of Isengard" is in 3/4, if I remember correctly, but how that connected to Strauss? Because he wrote in 3/4 as well?

I know that English is not your native tongue, so probably some of your posts suffer from that (no problem, I too have days when I simply cannot express myself in English the way I'd like to!), but some of thoughts and ramblings lead down paths where even I cannot follow.

Dude...your posts are becoming increasingly confusing.

CK[/b]<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understood he was no skilled to anderstand I decide I will not answer!
for do not pollute the purpose of this thread !! it's not Pearl Harbor here !!

Back to topic...[thinking] Who knows what orchestral effects did Howard Shore use for the trilogy? Apart from the "distressed piano" and shaked chains, I remember seeing and hearing bowed cymbals, some kind of whip drawn on a cymbal (best heard, without being able to check) on the Fellowship OST, #16 'Amon Hen', as well as some rattling effect on both 'The Great River' (FotR OST, #15) and the beginning of 'The Riders of Rohan' (T2T OST, #3). Anything else?

Bravo for your efforts, dambedir. Please continue to share your comments and insights with us. And that goes for everyone else too, of course!

quote:

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Originally posted by Thorf:
On another note, does anyone know what happened to that web site someone kindly put up last year for analysis of the themes in the complete recordings? I can't seem to find it.

---

In the Annotated Score for the Fellowship of the Ring, you mentioned that we can hear a "fleeting shape of the Fellowship theme" in the Prologue. Is this the theme from 0:30-0:40? I can't seem to find anything else even close other than this small section of music.

quote:

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Originally posted by *Tom*:
I really like these track titles.

Oh and:
42. The Last Debate [Featuring Sissel

I'm intrigued to see how the Sissel piece will fit into that track.

---

The next track on the cd is "The Land of Shadow" which I think meshes with the DVD chapter, "In the Company of Orcs".

If so, that means the cd track, The Last Debate would cover music for the dvd chapters, "The Last Debate", "Aragorn Masters the Palantir", and "The Captain and the White Lady".

Now, this is the scene where Eowyn is looking out onto the Fields of the Pelennor. Faramir joins her. Eowyn's mood is gloomy. Faramir's not so much. He does not believe that darkness will endure. He takes Eowyn's hand and she puts her head on his shoulder. I describe this because there's an earlier scene between the two and it would be easy to confuse them.

In a Normal way the song is for the Palantir scene when Aragorn see Arwen in it. if it's the song we know and is called "A shadow lie Between Us", the lyrics belong from "The Grace Of the Valar". And even if the only perception of this, could be something like abstract. it can be other, And The Music could be differente.

it's possible too that's belong in a same time for Eowyn and Faramir. before Eowyn Loved Aragorn and Now she's turning her to Faramir and a new love is rising like a foreseen of the happy end that will come. the shadow will be over for All.

this is another dream I think.

[Message edited by dambedir on 10-11-2007]

quote:

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What I don't understand is why they would put 19 before 20.

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Well, why should they put 20 before 19? Would you prefer an alphabetic track list?

Just kidding. There may have been more shift arounds than we thought.

1. Roots And Beginnings

Sounds a little odd.

2. Journey To The Cross-roads
3. The Road To Isengard

Two thumbs up!

4. The Foot Of Orthanc

That's ... creative.

6. The Chalice Passed

What is that? An attempt at metaphors?

11. Flight From Edoras

Nice. I just would have wished for a more lyrical title.

14. A Coronal Of Silver And Gold

Beautiful!

15. The Lighting Of The Beacons
16. Osgiliath Invaded [Featuring Ben D

Hmmm ... and a bit more hm. And hm some more ... aren't these two intercut in the film? And doesn't the beacon lighting lead into the "Rohan will answer" scene, and not the Osgiliath battle?
And didn't Doug say we would get both versions of the Osgiliath sequence?

17. The Stairs Of Cirith Ungol
18. Allegiance To Denethor
19. The Sacrifice Of Faramir [Featurin

And another restructuring? By the way, I would have preferred "The Last Son", since that's the title of the poem.

20. The Parting Of Sam And Frodo

Lame!

21. Marshalling At Dunharrow

What happened to "Muster Of The Rohirrim"?

23. The Passing Of The Grey Company

I often wondered why this title was kept on numerous occasions although it has nothing to do with the film.
Oh well, bring on as much book chapters as possible!

24. Dwimorberg - The Haunted Mountain

Cool!

25. Master Meriadoc, Swordthain
26. The Paths Of The Dead
27. The Siege Of Gondor

Yay!

28. Shelobs Lair

I have to admit, that's surprising.

31. Shelob The Great

Huh? "Choices Of Master Samwise"?

32. The Tomb Of The Stewards
33. The Battle Of The Pelennor Fields
34. The Pyre Of Denethor
35. The MÛmakil

Yay again!

36. Dernhelm In Battle

That's just a little too close to "Dernhelm in Action".

37. A Far Green Country
38. Shieldmaiden Of Rohan
39. The Passing Of ThÉoden
40. The Houses Of Healing [Featuring L
41. The Tower Of Cirith Ungol

42. The Last Debate [Featuring Sissel

What has Sissel to do with the last debate? Or is this a placement of the end credits piece similar to the alternate choral version of the Emyn Muil scene?

43. The Land Of Shadow
44. The Mouth Of Sauron [Featuring Sir
45. For Frodo [Featuring Ben Del Maest
46. Mount Doom [Featuring RenÉe Flemin
47. The Crack Of Doom
48. The Eagles [Featuring RenÉe Flemin
49. The Fellowship Reunited [Featuring

To use Christian's words: Scoooooregasm!

50. The Journey To The Grey Havens [Fe

Ok, now this is more than lame. What about "The Last Journey", "The Passing On An Age" or something like that?
I really think track titles should connect with the mood in the music.

51. Elanor [Featuring Sir James Galway

I thought this was going to be "Epilogue".

52. Days Of The Ring [Featuring Annie
53. Bilbos Song

Thank god!

And 3 'almost-right' ones:
1. The Eyes of the White Tower (he suggested 'The White Tower')
2. Andúril - Flame of the West (Georg: 'Flame of the West', I think that's better...)
3. The Pyre of Denethor ('Denthor's Pyre' is pretty close!).

So, Georg: You did great! Ich ziehe meinen Hut vor Dir!!

quote:

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28. Shelobs Lair
So they kept titles from the OST this time around?

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Favorite track title:

Roots and Beginnings!!

A reference to Gandalf's description of Sméagol in FotR-Chapter 'The Shadow of the Past'

quote:

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The most inquisitive and curious-minded of that family was called Sméagol. He was interested in roots and beginnings; he dived into deep pools; he burrowed under trees and growing plants; he tunnelled into green mounds; and he ceased to look up at the hill-tops, or the leaves on trees, or the flowers opening in the air: his head and his eyes were downward

---

quote:

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It would be cool and shady under those mountains. The Sun could not watch me there. The roots of those mountains must be roots indeed; there must be great secrets buried there which have not been discovered since the beginning

---

Doug, who came up with this?
Whoever it was, is a genious. The best track-title ever!!

-Sabsi, who wonders how the Sissel-piece will fit in too

Bilbos Song *yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay*

I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired this

For "Roots And Beginnings" I am really Ok !!
It's Like a melt of "Finding of the Ring" and "The Gladden Field*"

The gladden field come from "the disaster of the Gladden Field" Talking about the death of Isildur with three of his sons. and tell How the ring was lost. (Scene of the prologue). It's the Old Roots of the story

it's better of what I thought ! if I have to choose I would prefer the Gladden Field instead the finding but with this title we have both the lost and the finding.

I also like "SHELOB THE GREAT" I don't Know why. but it's funny.

In any case, I'm updating my results on the Score Analysis page that Magpie kindly linked to above.

I just got to 1-11 Saruman the White, and I can't help but think I may have stumbled upon an early, super-quiet debut of the Five Beat Pattern. Unfortunately my speakers are too quiet to really hear it, so I may just be imagining things - that's where you come in! Could someone with a better stereo than me please put in disc 1, track 11, and listen to the part from 1:15 to 1:28, just after the partial statement of the Thread of Mordor.

There subtle nods to almost all of the Mordor material in this piece.

Without any means to check (and Doug's AS offering no clue in this particular instance), it's "just" an inverted version of the Skip-Beat ostinato. I don't hear or remember any 5/4 in it, not even those low timpani hits in that track.

But as I said, I cannot check.

Christian

PS: Great. Four replies during the time it needed me to type my answer...

quote:

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(On another note: what is the name for the theme starting at 1:28 of the same track? It has a skipped beat and then an A-B-A note pattern repeated while rising up the scale. Does anyone know?)

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It's actually a variation of the 'Skip-Beat', which is 'used in the film's most intense and
nerve-wracking moments' (to quote a certain Mr. Adams).

Jim, thanks for the answer and the quotation. I vaguely remember me or someone else asking Doug questions about skip beats last year. The fact is, there are quite a few variations, and that makes it even harder to analyse which theme is which because it's hard for me to tell what is a variation and what is a new theme.

To make it even more fun, we have both Mordor and Hobbit skip beats, and they're really not that different - especially when you consider all these variations.

Christian, I actually ended up asking two questions, one about the quiet 1:15-1:28 section and one about the 1:28 onwards section. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused!

Your take on this section being a prelude of sorts for the Isengard material is intriguing, and damn myself for not having the music around to make a well-founded argument. At that particular instance, however, the use of the Descending Thirds (originally a Mordor figure) makes perfect sense, as Saruman has become an ally (or servant) of Mordor. So a connection is there, but in my books, I'd be reluctant to relate to this music as the "roots and beginnings" (:razz for the Isengard music, both thematically and rhythmically. The Isengard theme per se is the flip-side of the Fellowship theme (if I remember and quote Doug correctly here), whereas the 5/4 ostinato goes with anything Orc-related. Thus its use in RotK when the host sets out from Minas Morgul.

But that doesn't mean that this couldn't be the case! *hollers for Doug as well*

[Message edited by Jim Ware on 10-11-2007][/QUOTE]

I don't know if it belong to a well know theme but I call it "Gandalf in Mission" it's similar of what we hear when Gandalf
arrive to Isengard! And when he leaves the shire.
There it's slightly differente because it's only to go in a Hall from an Other but it's to see how Saruman know what he speaks/ like if Gandalf goes on his investigation. (There is alarm too)

11/1 0:12
7/1 5:19

In january 2007 a I have done a separation in each track title of the FOTR CR ! Even If I have tried to find some theme for each time (almost) this was not my goal* ! it was only for have a following of what happened in the movies when I listen the CR. I have as an exemple find 20/24 part in "The Mirror Of Galadriel" (24 in all count for what they must to be writte to tell what there are in both the movies and the CR).
All must be corrected in redaction.
I have a unequal work for 7/1 and 8/1. they must be improved.

* Can we treat the LOTR'S MUSIC as "PETER AND THE WOLF" of Sergei Prokofiev (Doug ??)

i have seen your work on you-tube and I really thank you for these happy viewings. to add at your work I will say what there isn't among them (the only if I remember right.... maybe??) it's in "Strider" 13/1 when Pippin reach for a pinte. A "Hobbit skip beat" I Think. 0:59 to 1:25

[Message edited by dambedir on 10-11-2007]

quote:

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
You, Christian and myself should have a "German MovieMusic LotR geeks" meeting.

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Yeah, we definitely should!
(By the way, I'am an AUSTRIAN MovieMusic LotR geek - the only one, I'm afraid...).
Are you going to attend any of the LotR-Symphonies in February/March??
I'll be in Saarbrücken, Mannheim, Dresden, Wiesbaden, Salzburg, Linz, Vienna and Graz. And maybe in Munich.
Any chance of meeting you there??

-Sabsi

Go here for the Symphony in Germany and here for the concerts in Austria.

I don't think it's the 'official' symphony, for it's called 'The Lord of the Rings in Concert', but they (the Warschauer Sinfoniker) are definitely playing Shores score.

-Sabsi

NP: The Aviator

What I'm looking forward to is the sequence where Legolas leaps onto the Mumak. That energetic string line... and then the conclusion... talk about scoregasm, CK. I might have to change my pants after I hear that...