quote:

---

Originally posted by SFT:
How the hell can there be 550+ posts in this thread?

---

14 full pages multiplied by 40 posts per page.

Nevermind... it's there sandwiched between other posts I'd read earlier on 14. I swear it was at the end of the thread on page 15. Peter... you're messing with our minds, aren't you?

Since the movie came out, I was really just aware of one significant last thematic appearance, which is the History Of The Ring. I always simply loved it how it plays after Renee Flemings vocal in "Mount Doom", equaling a last whimsy outcry of the Ring, who has lost control over its fate.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Rohan Fanfare fragment is actually heard for the last time when the Host of the West rides out to the Black Gate although I agree that the final apex of the theme comes at the Battle of Pelennor Fields track. And I adore that mournful and subtle brass reading of the theme when Theoden dies.

I have also always loved that last variation of the History theme in Mount Doom just after Fleming's solo stops although
the final gasp of the History of the Ring/Evil of the Ring theme trying to form itself at the moment of its destruction on the Crack of Doom track still gives me chills. That is the final moment of the Ring if not the apex of the theme.

Anyway, I don't really look at that little moment of the Ring floating on the lava as the History Theme. Yes, I know it's in the liner notes, but still ...
It's merely a half step up, half step down gesture, and therefor a representation of all evil themes connected to the Ring, trying to gain momentum one last time.
The last statement of the History Theme in full, with its full meaning, is the one earlier on

quote:

---

Originally posted by gkgyver:
The last statement of Nature's Reclamation would be the eagles' appearance at the Black Gate I suppose, since the melody you speak of is in fact "Gandalf's Farewell", as mentioned in the Annotated Score.

The aspects of the story that Nature's Reclamation describes, the moth, nature's struggle with evil, the "eucatastrophe" ... all this climaxes at the Black Gate. Could there be a better spot for the theme to culminate?

---

Just got back from the dress rehearsal

Spectacular stuff as expected - I can't wait for this evening's concert!

Yeah... that'll make me feel better.

Oh my!!

This one was even better than the one in february!! The pre-concert-lecture was brilliant and I took a great pic with John Howe :-)

Pics and a longer report coming as soon as I got home on Monday!

-Sabsi, tired but happy :-)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jim Ware:
Greetings from Lucerne (again!)

Sabsi and I are currently reading Doug's book - it definitely gets our seal of approval!

---

Saturday's concert was as close to perfect as it's possible to be.

Some changes I missed last time:
Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe has a wild aleatoric trumpet outburst before the Ringwraiths leave Minas Morgul.

Saruman the White includes chorus over the quiet bassoon statement of the descending thirds motif (just before Saruman reveals the Palantir) - I'm not sure what text is used.

Give Up The Halfling includes the aleatoric horns followed by the ending as heard on the CD with additional aleatoric trumpets. Crazy stuff!

Apologies for excessive use of the word 'aleatoric'!

The orchestra layout seemed a little odd too - from left to right - violins I & II - celli - basses - violas.

quote:

---

Not yet! I'll avoid the implication and post some other observations:

---

I just came home from Lucerne and thought I’d write a report before I have to go to my lecture and to work!
Well, here we go… (Jim, please correct me if I’ve forgotten something!)

Friday:
I arrived at the hotel at about 6pm after an 11-hour train ride (which was great, for I listened to the CR back to back à brilliant! )

Saturday:
I met up with Jim at 12.30pm in front of the KKL. He has spotted Elizabeth Cotnoir and Howard Shore going in there earlier, and we knew there was a rehearsal and went in there too (it helps a lot, if you have good connections to the incredible staff of the KKL!). Gandalf was just “risking a little more light”, so we could spot Howard Shore, Doug Adams and Elizabeth Cotnoir in the almost empty hall. The orchestra was great as usual and it was interesting to see Ludwig Wicki, the conductor, give final instructions to the orchestra. After the rehearsal we had a short chat with Doug and met Howard and Elizabeth as well.

Jim and I spent the afternoon with some sightseeing (we saw the Lion Monument and walked along the city wall) and and went to the KKL at about 6pm. The Pre-Concert-Lecture with Howard Shore and Doug Adams started at 6.30pm and it was great – though they discussed nothing new:
At first, Mr. Zängerle, the presenter, introduced Doug to the audience, then he left the stage and Doug and HS talked about the thematic structure of the score. The first theme that was discussed was the History of the Ring theme (including a sound sample) – how it describes the Ring’s passage from one person to the other, that it’s showing the Ring’s antiquity and that it has a unique shape compared with the other themes, for it has a very organic, breathing quality. Regarding the other Ring themes you can hear in FotR, HS told us that the Seduction of the Ring theme, which is performed by the boys choir, shows the seductive power of the Ring and the Evil of the Ring theme, that was played on a Raitha in the original recordings and was played on oboe and trumpet in the live performance, has a very violent, aggressive sound.
On the opppsite, there is the Hobbit music (sound sample – Bilbo in Rivendell) which is very straightforward, pure and simple. It uses mainly Celtic instruments (Tin Whistle, Hammered Dulcimer, Penny Whistle, Irish Drums,…). HS explained that as Tolkien is describing a world that existed 5000 years ago, he wanted to show the origins of music, that is why he used a lot of instuments with a long history from all over the world (japanese Taiko drums, norwegian Hardanger Fiddle,…).
Then there was a short demonstration of the Monochord.
The next theme that was discussed was the Fellowship (sound sample – To the Bridge of Khazad-Dûm!). HS told us that when he first saw the movie in 2000, Fellowship and Shire were the first themes he wrote and that the Fellowship theme grows in the forming of the Fellowship.
Then they were dealing with the ‘bad guys’. As we all know, one of the main concepts of LotR is the natural world vs. the industrial world, which led to the Isengard music, which has a very aggressive percussive sound. The percussion section of the 21st CSO did an impressive demonstration of the Five Beat Pattern and Doug pointed out, that this asymmetrical beat represents the industrialisation and the unbalanced world that Saruman has created. HS explained the instruments that are used for this theme: Timpani, Taiko drum, Bell Plate, a part of a railroad rail and the inside of a piano, that’s beaten with chains that are wraped around a garden glove (HS: ‘not recommended to do it at home’ *gg*).
Doug explained the difference between Rivendell (a place of higher learning, wisdom,…) and Lothlórien (exotic, creepy), which caused HS to note ‘you know a lot about it’ – DA:‘Yeah, I really should write a book’
HS pointed out that Tolkien spent about 14 years writing the book which is considered one of the most complex fantasy worlds ever written. That he invented his own languages, that are performed by the choir during the concert, and that Tolkien doesn’t just show you Elves but two kinds of Elves and he shows you two kinds of men – he was trying to reflect that in the score.
Then, HS talked about the relationship between Frodo and Sam being the essential part and the core of the story and how Tolkien describes all the great human qualities (friendship, honor, sacrifice,…) and what an emotional experience that really is.
At the end, they were answering questions from the audience: (Hobbit, Hardanger Fiddle,..)
That’s all I remember. (Jim, have I forgotten something important??). The Pre-Concert-Talk lasted about 30 Minutes, at 7.30 the concert began (I managed to get tickets even though it was sold out *yay*).
I was sitting next to the choir, behind the orchestra. It was really interesting to watch the musicians and see Maestro Wickis face and not his back for a change and I spotted HS, Elizabeth Cotnoir and John Howe in the audience. Since I was sitting next to the percussion section, the Isengard material was particularly impressive – I literally could feel every beat!
After the concert, there was an autograph session with HS und DA. Maestro Shore signed my Departed liner notes and the pullover I was wearing (take a look - special thanks to Christian!!). Doug signed the liner notes of the CR . I also took a picture with John Howe and got the chance to talk to Elizabeth (news re: the opera. See above).
After that, Jim and I were invited to the party of the orchestra, where I talked to Maestro Wicki (and got an autograph) and we finally got the chance to talk to Doug and arrange a meeting for the next day. Howard Shore, Elizabeth Cotnoir and Doug Adams left at 1am – and so did we.

Sunday:
Oh my! And I thought Saturday was a great day…
I met up with Jim at 11am and ran into Mr. Zängerle. We picked up Doug at 1pm at his hotel and ran into Maestro Wicki – small world…
We took Doug to the Lion Monument and he showed us his book (163 pages – so far. OMG! Brilliant! You have no idea what awaits you! Really, it’s just awesome. WOW!!). And we heard some rarities (OH MY!!!Can’t go into details – I think – but there was some great chorus material, alternate lyrics,etc.). We had lunch at his hotel and a coffee at the KKL afterwards. Jim had to catch his train to the airport, so Doug got ready for the lecture and I went back to the KKL to attend the PCT again.

Sorry – gotta run. To be continued soon, I promise!

Sabsi (sorry, no time to proofread…)

It has now been announced that the same event will take place next year for THE TWO TOWERS. I'm already looking forward.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kris:
Mr. Shore told us that he is involved in THE HOBBIT. That would be his first collaboration with Guillermo del Toro.

It has now been announced that the same event will take place next year for THE TWO TOWERS. I'm already looking forward.

---

Ummm... that was both announced about a month ago...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shire Bagginz
:Thank God there is finally some confirmation that Shore is scoring The Hobbit

---

Anyway, the Lucerne report continued:

The PCT was pretty much the same as it was on Saturday. But I thought one statement of Maestro Shore was quite interesting: ’Wooden percussions for the Ents seem like an obvious choice – but it wasn’t.’ (Is there any Ent-music with different orchestration out there??). And yes, he confirmed again that he’s working on the Hobbit (‘Work is just starting’). An other guy wanted to know if HS was involved in the orchestration of the score and how many orchestrators were working on it. I think he didn’t quite believe that Maestro Shore did everything by himself…
An other question was, if there was an other fantasy story he’d like to write music for. Since there are many fantasy elements in ‘The Fly’, he mentioned that right now he is finishing the Fly opera that he’s been working on for three years…
As I said, nothing new really.
Oh, and he composes in pencil and orchestrates in ink if you want to know…

After the PCT, I still had three hours to kill before my train would depart. So I asked, if I could attend the concert again. Fortunately, hat was no problem (thanks again to Mr. Zängerle and Horner!!!). I was sitting next to the choir again but on the opposite of where I sat on Saturday. This time, I could see the piano really good. Wow, I never realized how often it is used throughout the score – in the Shire, in Bree and Isengard, on Weathertop, at the Door to Moria… I also saw the rail and the inside of the piano they used for the Isengard theme for the first time!

Jim, you were right about the stopped horns at Balin’s Tomb – I could hear (and see) them pretty good this time!

I had to leave in the middle of Gandalf vs. Balrog – actually it took quite some time before I could tear myself away from the concert hall and I almost missed my train…

I couldn’t sleep on the train, so I just listened to the CR again

I’ve slept about 15 hours in the last 5 days, but I’ve been at the dress rehearsal and both PCTs and concerts, got my concert programme signed by Howard Shore, Elizabeth Cotnoir, Doug Adams, John Howe and Ludwig Wicki, met up with Jim again and spent a *very* interesting afternoon with Doug – so it was really worth it

I uploaded more pics of Lucerne and the concert, you can see them here.

-Sabsi

NP: Bitterblue (Doug Adams)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sabsi:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Kris:
[b]Mr. Shore told us that he is involved in THE HOBBIT. That would be his first collaboration with Guillermo del Toro.

It has now been announced that the same event will take place next year for THE TWO TOWERS. I'm already looking forward.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm... that was both announced about a month ago...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Shire Bagginz
:Thank God there is finally some confirmation that Shore is scoring The Hobbit<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't you think it's a confirmation, when Shore himself says that he's doing the Hobbit??
[/B]

---

Excuse us for expressing our gratitude on the subject...I guess since we don't know every update right when it's announced, we're not allowed to comment on it. Our mistake...
It's very sad to visit a thread where everyone has love for LOTR music in one form or another, just to be mocked by someone, as if we're not good enough to be expressing our love for LOTR, just because we don't have any news to break. Why would someone want to create tension on a thread like this; it makes no sense to me. You just HAD to comment back to show how much more you know than us...well good for...really shows how you handle your insecurities I guess.

I was about ready to post the same reaction as hers since someone in another forum had made the same comment. Howard has commented that he's working on the Hobbit numerous times and that fact has been reported here, at Doug's blog and at TheOneRing's news page and forum. Sorry you missed those announcements but it is funny to the rest of us that having Harry say it makes it 'official' or 'real' when we've been hearing it from the horses mouth for more than a month now.

All I can say is, you and Jim are gutsy guys to 'sneak' in back door like that. I'm could never have done it and if you had dragged me along I would have looked so guilty they would stop us for sure. You guys are having the time of your lives and I am thrilled to watch it happen.

I see Horner has posted a heads up for a TTT concert. He says talks are in works for Los Angeles and London. Meanwhile here in fly over land....

Realistically though, I probably couldn't attend anything that required travel so Chicago would be no better than Los Angeles. I shall live vicariously through the rest of you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magpie:
woah! I'm not sure how long you've been part of our community but I can assure you Sabsi does not mock people. She's a great contributor to the LOTR soundtrack community and the body of work the fans have put out there. I've worked with her extensively and I can vouch that she is well spoken and mannered.

I was about ready to post the same reaction as hers since someone in another forum had made the same comment. Howard has commented that he's working on the Hobbit numerous times and that fact has been reported here, at Doug's blog and at TheOneRing's news page and forum. Sorry you missed those announcements but it is funny to the rest of us that having Harry say it makes it 'official' or 'real' when we've been hearing it from the horses mouth for more than a month now.

You, kind friend, need to lighten up. I hope you stay with us long enough to know we have very few conflicts or snarky comments around here.

---

All I wanted to do was express my elation on the confirmation of Shore scoring The Hobbit. Why would someone have to point out that this news was old, with a certain "that's so yesterday" attitude. I find that to be an extremely immature and unnecessary comment to give someone, who wasn't looking for any confrontation. I'm sorry I don't visit every single thread on this subject, or happen to have connections in the biz to be able to hear this news first hand. I believe it's Sabsi who has to lighten up as I wasn't the one who decided to offend someone and create tension.

Basically, to sum up the whole reason why this bothered so much, I do not respect the fact that people feel they have to show how much better they are by making comments meant to diminish another person's opinion.
I am so happy to hear that Shore is scoring the Hobbit! That is all I wanted to let people know. I thought telling people in a forum such as this would be appreciated with positivity, not contested with negativity.
Can't we all just be friendly to each other and share our love for LOTR as equals, not having to give snide comments that are meant to put down someone and raise your own self esteem?

p.s. I realize this is a forum and in no way represents a person's entire character and values...so please excuse any disrespectful comments I may have made...to either Sabsi or Magpie...I'm sure you are both lovely people in real life, away from the coldness of a forum. I just felt it necessary to defend the original intent of my post.

I don't think Sabsi or I were doing any of that. I think you've read way too much into one line. She said one line and you've come back with all those comments up there.

I'm really sorry your feelings got hurt and I'm guessing Sabsi would be too. Calling for positivity and then writing all the stuff you're writing (in response to a rather simply stated question... one that I don't find offensive at all) is kind of counterproductive.

quote:

---

All I wanted to do was express my elation on the confirmation of Shore scoring The Hobbit. Why would someone have to point out that this news was old, with a certain "that's so yesterday" attitude.

---

There can be no attitude, this is a two-dimensional medium. If there's an attitude, then this is what you read into it.

Just relax, one of the things to value about this community is its uncomplicated way of communicating. There's just an unspoken understanding that nobody intends to "put someone down" or look down on somebody; that's a given, which is rare enough around the net.
And I can assure you that Sabsi didn't mean to harm someone's feelings - she's just being uncomplicated. She most likely assumes people know it's not dead serious; and frankly, so do I.

How are comments like these positive in any way? What purpose do they serve, other than proving how one knows more than another? Why bring this negativity to the forum?

But ya know what, lets get back to the topic at hand, Shore's composing music for The Hobbit, how cool is this? Do you think he will be using the little motif heard in FOTR, when Gandalf is in Bag End, looking at the map of the Lonely Mountain? I hope so, seems like a perfect little motif to expand into a full blown theme.

quote:

---

How are comments like these positive in any way? What purpose do they serve, other than proving how one knows more than another? Why bring this negativity to the forum?

---

I'll post this again:

Do you think Shore will be using the little motif heard in FOTR, when Gandalf is in Bag End, looking at the map of the Lonely Mountain? I hope so; it seems like a perfect little motif to expand into a full blown theme for The Hobbit. Maybe it could be used as a journey theme, the journey to the lonely mountain.

...and what about all those songs from the book. I wonder how those will be handled. I suppose in a similar way that "The road goes ever on and on" was, but it seems to me that the songs in The Hobbit are much more prominent than they are in LOTR. The animated movie certainly relied on them a lot.