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Originally posted by alcaeru:
I've always thought that was an interesting part in the music. It fits well, surprisingly well for a not so serious scene. Does it occur anywhere else in the films?

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I don't believe it does occur anywhere else in the films; it's so good though that it seems that it should have...that's why I can't wait to see if Shore uses it for The Hobbit.

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Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
Do you think Shore will be using the little motif heard in FOTR, when Gandalf is in Bag End, looking at the map of the Lonely Mountain? I hope so; it seems like a perfect little motif to expand into a full blown theme for The Hobbit. Maybe it could be used as a journey theme, the journey to the lonely mountain.

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Originally posted by alcaeru:
I've always thought that was an interesting part in the music. It fits well, surprisingly well for a not so serious scene. Does it occur anywhere else in the films?

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Doug commented about it recently:
This theme does not specifically connect to anything else in Shore’s LOTR scores… but there’s no telling if it may make a return on a future journey to Middle-earth! We shall see…

-Sabsi

PS: Shire Bagginz, I really didn't want to mock you! I was just curious what made this article so special and 'more official' than the other reports - but, as NeoVoyager pointed out, english is not my first language, so I'm sorry if my question was offensive, that was not my intend!

Btw, you can hear Shore talking about the Hobbit on Doug's Blog...

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Originally posted by Sabsi:

Btw, you can hear Shore talking about the Hobbit on Doug's Blog...

[Message edited by Sabsi on 04-01-2008]

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Well that certainly is some serious confirmation!

It's very nice to hear those words coming from Mr. Shore himself!

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Originally posted by Sabsi:
Doug commented about it recently:
This theme does not specifically connect to anything else in Shore’s LOTR scores… but there’s no telling if it may make a return on a future journey to Middle-earth! We shall see…

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
Considering the gargantuan amount of thoughts Howard Shore put into LOTR, it's hard to believe the little motif in Bag End does not carry a "dirty little secret"

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Exactly my friend
... and that motif feels so entirely perfect for those couple shots that to me, it feels like it somehow escaped a whole world of motifs and themes that can't wait to be seen, or heard.

What's great also, is, at least I assume, we will be hearing some familiar themes and motifs as well. Certainly the shire and hobbit themes will make a return, although they may be slightly altered I suppose. Then of course I would expect a heavy order of dwarven material as well, with a main course of Balin's theme, as I think it may have been called at one point; the Dwarrowdelf theme anyways. If I'm not mistaken, Dwarrowdelf is not explored in The Hobbit, but perhaps in the second movie they are making, they will go into it there. In any case, Balin will be one of the 13 dwarves in The Hobbit; and Gimili's dad Gloin yeaaa (please excuse my fanatic babbling )

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Originally posted by NeoVoyager:
I don't remember this motif that you're discussing at all, so I'll either have to rent the DVD or look and see if I can find it on YouTube (shh!). Unless someone has an audio clip or somethin'...

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Originally posted by NeoVoyager:
Oh... THAT! Thank you.

All this time I thought you guys were discussing something that was only in the film (not on the OST or the CR). But now that I know what it is we're talking about, I remember that I have wondered about that very same motif too (not in the context of the movie - as I've only seen it once - but just because it's a conspicuous little departure from the tone and thematic structure of the early part of Fellowship).

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Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
Anyways, what themes/motifs do you people want or expect to see again?

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I would love Howard Shore to expand upon the sound established in the unused music for Gollum's transformation.
Remember that the Pity Of Gollum refers to the relationship he has with the Ring *after* Bilbo escaped with it!
The History theme may be a given, as is the Rivendell motif.
But since the Rivendell arpeggio is, if you want to be 100% correct, "Weakness and Redemption", I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear something new there - after all, Howard Shore has to create a musical world that is by far not as sorrowful as the world in FOTR.

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Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
Anyways, what themes/motifs do you people want or expect to see again?

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I have a number of reasons for thinking this. One, I think Howard will want to creatively push himself beyond finding new ways to present old themes. He completed the arc that was LOTR. I don't know how satisfying it will be to be tied to those themes.

Two, I don't think he writes for an Oscar but I think he could jeopardize the possibility of certain awards if he uses too much material from LOTR. They had to rewrite the rules for ROTK to be eligible. Sure The Hobbit and LOTR are connected, but how much will his peers accept when hearing 'old stuff'?

Three, I don't think I would find it that satisfying. The Hobbit is a different book in style than LOTR. I suspect the films will be different in style. My appreciation of The Hobbit is as a distinct entity from LOTR. I want my movie experience to reflect that.

Now, having said all that, I do think the two stories are related and the movies will be related and I believe Shore will make the music related. I believe he'll look for (and find) a way to tie the music together in a basic, fundamental, visceral way that we will intuit more than we'll plainly see.

But I think only a handful of the older themes are applicaple in the Hobbit. Most themes in LotR deal with cultures that are not touched upon in the book.
I should think the Dwarven musical style is revisited for a good reason (13 of them infact).

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Originally posted by Magpie:

I don't think I would find it that satisfying. The Hobbit is a different book in style than LOTR.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
This is Middle Earth 50 years before Lord Of The Rings.

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I associate the Shire and Rivendell with certain instruments, a certain 'sound' and a certain feeling and I want to hear that when I'm watching the Hobbit (I could live with a different melody though).

Bottom line: Of course, I don't want to hear just the LotR themes 'remixed'! I'm looking forward to new Middle-Earth material, but it would be nice to hear a hint of a familiar theme here and there.

I have no doubts that Maestro Shore will do a great job and find a perfect way to musically connect LotR and Hobbit, so I'll just sit back, enjoy the pleasant anticipation and wait for the first audio samples of another brilliant score from Howard Shore.

-Sabsi

NP: Bitterblue

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Originally posted by Magpie:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
[b]But then, I was convinced I had it all figured out how Harry Potter was resolved and I was mostly wrong.

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I know this is way off topic, but I'm interested to know what you thought of the book.

Shore might have to write something completely different given that he is working with a new director who I am sure has his own opinions about the music. And of course he will write something different because repeating old things might not be artistically interesting but I also hope he will write in the same style and approach as in LotR. Without that sound and that thematic approach it would be like listening to a discontinuation in the whole "music of Middle-earth".

And in my opinion Middle-Earth 50 years before the events of LotR is not so much more different. And some old musical ideas from LotR would be more than appropriate for the Hobbit. As Sabsi said she does not want "LotR music remixed" and I agree with her. But I am expecting something that is part of the organic whole.

The tone of book is much lighter than in LotR since it is a children's book and the broader concepts of LotR have not yet been born. The Ring is but an interesting bauble with very little hints of that evil it came to portray in LotR. There is more humour (dwarvish or otherwise) and a lightness of touch and the journey is for the most part sunnier (if not less dangerous) than in LotR. I am interested to see how much they darken the script or do they retain the cheery and upbeat sense of adventure of the book. That also affects the musical choices.

But all in all I think we will be in for some interesting and great music.

About this little interesting bit of music, I made a post yesterday over at TORN. Magpie pointed me in this direction since it was being discussed here, so I'm just going to point you guys back to what I had to say there.

Just to clarify – this lovely melodic line is not a standalone theme in The Lord of the Rings simply because it never repeats in this guise. The statement under Bilbo’s map is unique. That said, its linear nature certainly relates it to the Shire theme… though it’s in minor. It also seems related to the Seduction of the Ring… though it descends more severely and ends earlier.

There’s a bass clarinet line a few scenes later that again sounds somewhat like this figure, but again it’s more showing the Shire material edging towards the Seduction material and lacks that descending fourth note of the Unnamed Figure in Question.

So it’s not a theme in The Lord of the Ring, though it certainly fits right in to the fabric... which is probably why listeners often feel the material sounds familiar.

Will it return in The Hobbit? I don’t know. The Hobbit themes do not yet exist. Howard’s in his dreaming phase right now. He is reading, imagining, populating his thoughts with Tolkien’s material. I suspect that once The Fly’s revisions are complete, he’ll begin to jot down his first ideas. Will the Unnamed Figure be part of this collection? Perhaps, perhaps not.

But I’ll say this… I wouldn’t be surprised to see it in there. After all, doesn’t a figure that falls somewhere between the Shire and the Seduction of the Ring aptly represent Bilbo’s experiences in the Misty Mountains?

That’s all I’ll say until I’ll say more.

-Doug

-Doug

quote:

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Originally posted by BigT1981:
Doug,

Hey I can't remember if you posted about it..but did you find any more information whether or not if Return Of The King's complete recordings are being pulled off the market completely?

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Here's a growing list of stores who have now listed this as discontinued (which means no backordering):

Amazon.com
Tower
CDUniverse
Buy.com
BestBuy
Walmart
etc.

I think we're beyond a single case of one supplier no longer getting copies.

Whether or not Reprise has plans to get this back into the market is the big unanswered question. We hope they do... but for now, it's gone.

It would be nice for someone to get to the bottom of it!

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Originally posted by PeterK:
"Specific problem Peter encountered"?

Here's a growing list of stores who have now listed this as discontinued (which means no backordering):

Amazon.com
Tower
CDUniverse
Buy.com
BestBuy
Walmart
etc.

I think we're beyond a single case of one supplier no longer getting copies.

Whether or not Reprise has plans to get this back into the market is the big unanswered question. We hope they do... but for now, it's gone.

It would be nice for someone to get to the bottom of it!

[Message edited by PeterK on 04-04-2008]

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Is there anyone else on this board who will be attending the Winnipeg concert? Also, those at Lucerne, would you recommend a seat close to the front, or one at a higher angle where you can watch the musicians? What position would recommend most for someone going to this?

Del Toro and PJ are in my opinion very similar in skill and interest—comparing both of their independent horror films before they became famous, and thus I see del Toro’s Hobbit being adult and dangerous. Is this where Shore is dreaming? Has Shore seen conceptual drawings or been in talks with del Toro about the tone of the Hobbit? How has Shore dealt with the vast difference in tone between the book ‘The Hobbit’ and the musical world he has already created, which is far darker.

If the tone will be consistent, then I would expect not only a small handful of themes to return to the Hobbit, but more so I would expect ‘styles’, i.e. the musical ‘world’ of the cave troll, and of the dwarves, to return. By far, the thing I look most forward to in the Hobbit is Shore’s expansion of the dwarven music, which by necessity will be more light-hearted—these dwarves aren’t rotting corpses, as they were in LOTR—but, for me, hopefully still mature and with a shade of darkness and sadness to it, however small, thus making it tonally consistent.

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Originally posted by Crippled Avenger:
Also, those at Lucerne, would you recommend a seat close to the front, or one at a higher angle where you can watch the musicians? What position would recommend most for someone going to this?

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That depends on what you want and the acoustics of the concert hall.
I did't care about whether I could see the screen or not, but I wanted to see the musicians. So I got a seat above the right side of the orchestra next to the choir. The screen was almost behind me, but it was brilliant to watch the musicians (especially the percussion section). Plus: The acoustics of the concert hall of the KKL is fantastic, so I had a great sound-experience as well! Brilliant!

--> I'd recommend a seat at a higher angle - if the acoustics of the hall is good enough. But a seat in the front (I had one in february) is great too, for you can see the conductor's desk, which is also quite interesting.

-Sabsi

EDIT: United States Premiere of FOTR-LIVE! in Vienna, (unfortunately) Virginia (and not Austria )

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Originally posted by PeterK:
It would be nice for someone to get to the bottom of it!

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Usually someone can find info within a week, but still no word on the OOP nature of the box. I guess the label is happy to sell you the download... which seems to be an insult because the beautiful packaging and liner notes certainly do make the music even that much better.

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Originally posted by Sabsi:
Plus: The acoustics of the concert hall of the KKL is fantastic, so I had a great sound-experience as well! Brilliant!

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Was it unamplified? Amplification pretty much killed the LOTR Symphony.

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United States Premiere of FOTR-LIVE! in Vienna, (unfortunately) Virginia (and not Austria )

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Was it unamplified? Amplification pretty much killed the LOTR Symphony.

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There were some mikes (mainly for the choir and the soloists), but they didn't 'kill' the concert at all.
I read somewhere that regarding the acoustics the concert hall of the KKL is one of the best concert halls in the world. I attended 8 concerts in the KKL and no matter where I sat (from the 4th balcony right under the roof in the very rear of the hall to right next to the choir), the sound was just perfect.

Ah, I just can't wait for my next trip to Lucerne and another great concert at the KKL in December ^^

Btw, I think what really 'killed' the Symphony was the bad acoustics of the hall and not the amplification by itself. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you attended the performance in the Wiener Stadthalle - a multi-purpose hall which can't be compared to the concert hall of the KKL at all)

-Sabsi, waiting for the Hobbit-score (just two and a half years to go! )

NP: The Departed

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Originally posted by Sabsi:
Btw, I think what really 'killed' the Symphony was the bad acoustics of the hall and not the amplification by itself. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you attended the performance in the Wiener Stadthalle - a multi-purpose hall which can't be compared to the concert hall of the KKL at all)

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Never mind the acoustics. They *would* have killed the performance, but I had a pretty direct line to the speakers, and there was no way they would have sounded acceptable even in a perfect environment.

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Originally posted by PeterK:
The silence about the future of the ROTK complete box set is not golden.

[Message edited by PeterK on 04-22-2008]

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Unfortunately this only news is that there's no new news. I've added an update to the Blog's FAQ which states, in short, that the set is not discontinued or cancelled. We don't know what the current hang-up is with the label, but don't start shelling out to eBay scammers... it'll be back sooner or later.

Sorry I don't have more details, but this is all I know.

-Doug www.themusicofthelordoftheringsfilms.blogspot.com