quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason:
Also, your liners are so wonderful. One part of ROTK I never understood was why The Grey Havens theme was blasted when Sam says "I cannot carry the ring, but I can carry you!" and lifts Frodo up on his shoulders. I didn't get why one of the Hobbit/Shire themes, or even the Fellowship of the Ring theme, wasn't used there.

But then in your annotated score you say "Sam's gift to Frodo, his strength, determination and resolve will, alone, allow Frodo to be free of the Ring. But it is an act of self-sacrifice at least equal to Frodo's - Sam knows that, one way or the other, he will lose Frodo."

I had never thought of it that way before. Shore does a great job of scoring the emotions and themes of the movies rather than just providing music for the on-screen action. Brilliant stuff.

---

Ditto! I love the "liner notes". More like an insider's guide to appreciate the music on a whole different level. "Liner notes" are like the blurb on a paperback cover. These notes are more like a 40 page appendix discussing the books themes and characters. The term "liner notes" just doesn't seem to do justice.

Anyway, I always figured that the use of the Grey Havens theme when Sam picks up Frodo was similar to the use of Princess Leia's theme when Ben is killed in Star Wars: thematically inappropriate but somehow the sweep and mood of the piece is utterly fitting, so why not?

Given the lyrics of "The Argument" that are sung just prior, I have a whole new appreciation of Sam's frame of mind and his level of sacrifice. He was certainly doing more than helping rid Frodo of the Ring, he was actually contributing to Frodo's ultimate loss. I never realized that before. Do you think he knew even then that even if Frodo destroyed the Ring that he would never be whole again, and must leave Middle-earth? The music implies this even if the film doesn't.

quote:

---

Originally posted by tjguitar:
Thanks magpie the wealth of info in this thread is amazing. Are none of you guys interested in other music besides Shore/LOTR?

---

quote:

---

Anyway, I always figured that the use of the Grey Havens theme when Sam picks up Frodo was similar to the use of Princess Leia's theme when Ben is killed in Star Wars: thematically inappropriate but somehow the sweep and mood of the piece is utterly fitting, so why not?[/B]

---

Exactly. Also in The Empire Strikes Back when Yoda's theme is played when the doors finally open for our heroes to get on board the Millenium Falcon while trying to escape Cloud City. Yoda is nowhere close to this scene but it does fit perfectly!

Oh, and thanks to you, Doug for a truly magnificent score! If I had the time away from my career and family to devote to a full listen and read-along to the liner notes & annotated score I would. Unfortunately that is not possible now, so I am relegated to sporadic-listenings in my SUV to and from work.

I met Sabsi too and that was cool. Her friend took a picture of the two of us so I think when Sabsi write here the next time she will have it uploaded with a much more deeper and well-written review.

Edit: I just created a group on Facebook for everyone who ever have attended The Symphony. It would be great if some of you joined it. http://hs.facebook.com/group.php?gid=16115275220

I am stubborned as your not able to expect it....

(the celtic blood of my origin, I think)

BUT...

(I am able to change My view if I have the way for)

SO

I have checked with my pc the file of the DVD -AUDIO and I have see that if there is a ViDEO-TS folder with the VOB files (ac3 inside) and it's about 1 GB of data.

there is also an AUDIO-TS folder with AOB files they (would be) are the Files of the true DVD-AUDIO and they seem to be many GB of data (I undersdant why the ROTK-CR DVD is Double side...thus)

it may be enough to say how I could see by myself that.... and the DVD-AUDIO is also a DVD with only (almost) audio. lol

but the DVD audio is very unusual and so I am still thinking that the DVD's of the LOTR CR's should be discribed as a Dual DVD-AUDIO/ DVD (I don't know if they are always like that...)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shire Bagginz:
What ever happened to the extended choir backed Rivendell theme in "Anduril" on the OST? I never realized it wasn't in the movie until a few minutes ago, because after listening to "Anduril - The Flame of the West" on the CR I was slightly shocked that the Rivendell theme was cut short and went directly to the Minis Tirith theme, so I checked the movie and sure enough, the movie and CR match, which is fine by me. But I was shocked, (not disappointed mind you), but mostly I'm just curious if it was supposed to be in the film, but maybe that scene was cut a bit, so part of the cue had to go. Or is the OST version just a different take that Shore wanted on the OST album exclusively? Its too bad it had no place in the movie as it's a beautiful, fully fleshed rendition of the Rivendell theme.

---

A close comparison of the OST and CR cue reveals that they are two entirely different takes (i.e. the alterations to the composition were made between recordings, and not in post-production editing -- which does suggest that the scene was reedited or reshot during the scoring process). There's a further difference at the end of the passage: the OST has a choral overlay, while the CR is entirely instrumental.

In terms of personal preference, I give the OST recording the edge. But I can also appreciate the different pacing/feel of the final version. As for Shore's intentions -- well, I'd never presume to speak for him or his team, but I think it's clear that they had a number of alternate takes to choose from on certain cues, and where they felt they were valid and interesting, they avoided repeating material that was already available on the OST to give us something new.

"Mettanna!"

and then back into the normal score again. Soon after, it again happens, now playing 'The Mearas' theme for several seconds. Then, near the end of the film, a brief 5 second blurb from 'The Dead Marshes' plays, sandwiched in between the film's score.

quote:

---

In terms of personal preference, I give the OST recording the edge. But I can also appreciate the different pacing/feel of the final version. As for Shore's intentions -- well, I'd never presume to speak for him or his team, but I think it's clear that they had a number of alternate takes to choose from on certain cues, and where they felt they were valid and interesting, they avoided repeating material that was already available on the OST to give us something new.

---

quote:

---

but the DVD audio is very unusual and so I am still thinking that the DVD's of the LOTR CR's should be discribed as a Dual DVD-AUDIO/ DVD (I don't know if they are always like that...)

---

These are standard DVD-Audio discs just like any other. As I said in my initial response to your post, and was seconded by Blue Dude, ALL DVD-AUDIO DISCS ARE DVD-VIDEO COMPATIBLE!!!

This is true of The Doors' L.A. Woman, John Williams' A.I. Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, the Marco Polo recordings of Max Steiner's The Adventures of Mark Twain and Erich Korngold's The Adventures of Robin Hood, Crosby and Nash's Another Stoney Evening... the list goes on. They will ALL PLAY IN REGULAR DVD-VIDEO PLAYERS, and so are compatible with that format. But they ARE DVD-Audio discs because they contain the advanced resolution tracks for those with that player.

There is no difference between the LOTR CR DVD-Audio discs and any other DVD-Audio disc other than the program content. They are being described as exactly what they are, which is as DVD-Audio.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NeoVoyager:
Thank you for that explanation of DVD-Audio, Blue Dude! It was very informative, and single-handedly cleared all confusion I had about what exactly was on those DVDs.

Now just to find a system to play them! (And I agree with the previous poster who said that even if the DVD-A format all but died, I would be happy to spend the money just to play these sets!)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wedge:
I wouldn't say they made any choices for "rarity's' sake". Think of it this way: if you have a different take than what appeared on the OST -- and it also happens to be an *interesting* alternative version -- and ESPECIALLY if it also happens to be the version that ended up in the finished film -- well, I think you'd be more likely to say "OK, we'll use this take on the CR."

---

So both versions were in the film? Or the original OST release used a different version? Or, they used different versions in different edits of the film?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ralo:
I sat on the 5th row, right behind Howard Shore and I couldn't ask for a better spot in the whole hall.

---

I think my spot was better, though!
I was sitting on the left side, so I could see his side-face. Could you see him smile during the Last March of the Ents and The Field of the Pelennor? It was just awesome, you really felt how much he enjoyed conducting this Symphony I'm so glad, I was lucky enough to be there and I'm looking forward to the Symphony in Paris - can't wait to see him conduct again and feel all this enthusiasm and joy!!

After the pause, he wanted to start before Ann de Renais had entered the stage. I think he was quite embarrassed that he had forgotten her - he apologized several times and turned around to the audience and stated 'Everybody is here!' before he finally started to conduct the third movement

I agree with Ralo, 'The Breaking of the Fellowship' was perfect. It's always been one of my favourite parts and it was part of the Symphonic Suite of FotR he conducted in Lucerne in March, so it's really special to me - which means, I'm hyper-critical concerning this 'cue'(sorry)...

Re: movement 3: I know what you mean, I miss 'Breath of Life' and 'The Wolves of Isendgard'...

Orchestra: pretty good (especially the strings), but I think the 21st Century Symphony Orchestra (Lucerne) was better (can't wait to hear its performance of the entire FotR-score ). I think the guitar messed up the timing during 'Into the West' and the brass came in too early at the Amon Hen part.

Ann de Renais: great as usual (I already heard her in Cologne, Nürnberg and Lucerne). 'Evenstar' and 'Into the West' were awesome. I prefer Kaitlyn Lusk's performance of Gollum's Song though.

Choir: Agree with Ralo, the choir was 'groundshaking'. I really liked their Moria-performance. The little boy, who sang In Dreams was a bit out of tune during the first verse, but he did alright indeed. His performance of the 'Hymn for Gandalf' was amazing - definitely the best I've heard so far! WOW!

Sound/acoustics: I have to admit, I was a bit disappointed. There were far too many micros and/or they were adjusted too sensitive - you could hear the choir turn the pages of their textbooks and other side-noises.
It was very hard to hear the first few lines of the soloist, who performed 'Lament for Gandalf'. Obviously, they had mike-problems here as well. And Ann de Renais was sometimes drowned by the choir (especially during 'Forth Éorlingas')

Conductor: Howard Shore. Nuff said.

--> Really good Symphony, but not as good as the one in Lucerne (apart from Breaking of the Fellowship and Hmyn for Gandalf - and the conductor of course! Sorry, Ludwig Wicki...)

It was cool indeed to meet Ralo, and I hope I'll meet some of you in Lucerne in february!!

I already joined the Symphony-facebook, but the upload of the picture has to wait. It took me 11 (!!) hours to get home (usual flight time 120 Minutes, but my flight was delayed...), I just arrived and I have to get up again in 6 hours. Good night.

-Sabsi, tired but happy

May your book become a bestseller!

-Sabsi, still tired, but still happy

EDIT: It says Nov 26th, but it's the 27th already - at least here in Austria... (nasty time difference)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sabsi:
[b]HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DOUG!!

May your book become a bestseller!

-Sabsi, still tired, but still happy

EDIT: It says Nov 26th, but it's the 27th already - at least here in Austria... (nasty time difference)

[Message edited by Sabsi on 11-26-2007][/B]

---

Happy Birthday Doug !! (sagittarius then)

(does he want a ring because it's his birthday...? )

Here's wishing you a very very Happy Birthday. I've been working on a site The House Of Eorl for over a year now and I thought what better day to go live than on your birthday?

That's because, more than anything, I offer you a walk down LOTR-memory lane (well, at least over the past 3 years or so). While I don't recommend you spend your birthday reading "work-related stuff" I think you'll find some memorable times out there.

I'm specifically talking about: Creating The Complete Recordings

Hope you enjoy reading and wish you a really great day again.

Regards,
Earl.

And to all the LOTR music fans here at the MM boards, this is a tribute to your enthusiasm (and inquisitiveness ) as well. It's been great hanging around here - I've shared opinions, I've thrown tantrums, I've taken a stand, but more than anything I recall the great discussions, the anticipation (and the stuff it engendered like the silly rumours, the cool artwork, and well, the fun times of course). But most of all I remember you for your "traits" (Christian's TTT:CR countdown, Beren's enthusiastic smileys, Sabsi's reminiscences about her oh-so-many LOTR Symphony attendances, Magpie’s amazing insights into LOTR’s music – and her sanity amidst our craziness, Peter’s patience with us all, Doug’s informative – and at times one-word posts, we all remember his “Tomorrow” post). I could go on…

… and well, I will. Just not in this post. Because I'm hoping we're gonna stick around discussing the scores out here till long after Doug's book and the rarities have been released.

It has been Doug’s presence for the most part that brought us back to this thread over the years, and on his birthday, while he begins a new phase of LOTR-updates with his blog, I also wish the "LOTR Package Update" thread a long life

- Earl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Adams (at his blog)
But fear not, the ROTK trailer, in all its unabbreviated glory, is currently slated for the rarities disc.

-Doug

---

I can't describe what I felt when I opened your website.

You worked on it for a year? You have my everlasting respect. What an incredible job!!!

I think you just created everything a LOTR geeks need! Listening to the CR, combined with all Doug's information and while Earl,

I can't describe what I felt when I opened your website.

You worked on it for a year? You have my everlasting respect. What an incredible job!!!

I think you just created everything a LOTR geeks need! Listening to the CR, combined with all Doug's information and while reading your amazing thematic analyses in a very enjoyable text is really an experience.

Again, you have my biggest congratulations.

You made something special! Waw!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Earl:
[B]Hey Doug,

Here's wishing you a very very Happy Birthday. I've been working on a site The House Of Eorl for over a year now and I thought what better day to go live than on your birthday?

---

Wow, I had no idea googlepages could be made to look so good!

Interesting. I wonder why they released so many "alternate versions" on the OST discs.

Thanks for the birthday wishes! I was really surprised to see that this morning... You helped ease the blow of having to change another digit on my age!

All best,

-Doug http://themusicofthelordoftheringsfilms.blogspot.com/

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Adams:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the birthday wishes! I was really surprised to see that this morning... You helped ease the blow of having to change another digit on my age!

All best,

-Doug http://themusicofthelordoftheringsfilms.blogspot.com/

---

A very happy birthday to you, Doug! I don't know you half as well as I should like, but eleventy-one years is far too short a time to live among such excellent and admirable music lovers.

Things are progressing here in Lucerne, Switzerland. The Concert "The Fellowship of the Ring" taking place at the concert stage in the KKL in Lucerne is about to happen on February 23rd and 24th.
Ticket sale stats ond December 1th 2007:
http://www.kkl-luzern.ch/navigation/top_nav_items/culture/Programmuebersicht/default.htm

You can also order tickets here: http://www.artproductions.ch/ (Page is in German only, sorry!)

And this is the page of the orchestra: http://www.21co.ch/

I hope a lot of you girls and guys here are coming to lucerne to hear this fantastic world premiere!!!

I really like this part:

quote:

---

DVD. We'll need the storage space for the very large amount of music we intend to include. We're also looking in to including video material as well as secondary audio tracks with commentary. Only DVDs can handle material of this type while remaining accessible to the general audience. (Which is why Blu-ray Discs, etc. are not being considered.)

---

@Earl
I finally took a look at your site - and favourited it ten seconds later. It's wonderful! I started to collect Doug's posts too to have a 'chronology' of his updates. But I never had the time to finish it. So THANKS!

@Basil
On the KKL-Homepage it says, ticket sale starts on Dec 17th. I guess that's a mistake!? It says Dec 1st on the artproduction-page...

Could you reserve two tickets in the first row for me?

Looking forward to see you (and Randy Newman) next weekend

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horner:
Hi there,

Things are progressing here in Lucerne, Switzerland. The Concert "The Fellowship of the Ring" taking place at the concert stage in the KKL in Lucerne is about to happen on February 23rd and 24th.
Ticket sale stats ond December 1th 2007:
http://www.kkl-luzern.ch/navigation/top_nav_items/culture/Programmuebersicht/default.h tm

You can also order tickets here: http://www.artproductions.ch/ (Page is in German only, sorry!)

And this is the page of the orchestra: http://www.21co.ch/

I hope a lot of you girls and guys here are coming to lucerne to hear this fantastic world premiere!!!

Cheers from Zuerich, Switzerland

---

Horner,

If you get a chance, please drop me a line? My email is in my profile.

Thanks!

-Doug

No, unfortunately it's not a mistake on the KKL-Page. The really wanna start with the Ticket-Sale on December 17th (I've just checkt... why? No idea!). So, if you can't wait to get a ticket for the mind blowing musical Event (sorry, I just have to do some promotion here...), then order over at Art Productions!

quote:

---

Originally posted by gkgyver:
I'm really planning to go to Lucerne.
It would be great if you folks could keep me up to speed with your plans. Maybe we can do a little "meet and greet"

---

Absolutely. Having a drink or two before and/or after the concert.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gkgyver:
I'm really planning to go to Lucerne.
It would be great if you folks could keep me up to speed with your plans. Maybe we can do a little "meet and greet"

---

Absolutely. Having a drink or two before and/or after the concert.

Major bummer. Looks like a LotR-free christmas this year.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christian Kühn:
SAE says that "LORD OF THE RINGS: RETURN OF THE KING - THE COMPLETE RECORDINGS is sold out indefinitely from the manufacturer."

Major bummer. Looks like a LotR-free christmas this year.

Christian

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tjguitar:
Barnesandnoble still ahve them, and there were reports that Amazon has more...[/B]

---

Yes, I know. Won't do any good, unfortunately, as I already placed an order (with SAE) on Nov. 25th, before this was known.

Also, Amazon or B&N shipments won't pass German customs, not with $70 on the customs slip. And as I said before, I do not want and cannot and am not going to pay 20% customs tax and VAT. Not even for RotK:CR.

# # #

Doug made me aware of this update from howardshore.com:

The Return of the King – The Complete Recordings
More on the way!

Update from REPRISE Records confirmed that sales have been so great for The Return of the King – The Complete Recordings that many retailers are currently backordered. The Reprise sales department is working diligently to ship more sets out to the retailers as quickly as possible. They have also already ordered a new pressing from the plant and expect them to hit retailers by December 18.

The hand-constructed box and 48-page booklet have a long lead time to produce and Reprise assures us that they are working as quickly as possible to make the set available.

Checking online, barnesandnoble.com still lists the set as available and amazon.com has it back in stock. Also many physical retail stores have the set in stock; please check availability with your local music store. Alternatively, the music (only) is available from many of your favorite digital download stores.