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Author	Topic: Yeah... AWESOME!

sean Standard Userer	Exams are wrapping up (for me, anyway), summer begins, and May looks incredible... ...This is TOO COOL! http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=57&page=view&catid=474&PageNo=1&key=17&hit=1 ...This ISN'T COOL AT ALL! (Close to nightmarish, actually. Happy birthday, Andrew.) http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=57&page=view&catid=474&PageNo=1&key=5&hit=1 ...And don't go here if you don't want to see ANYTHING from Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull, but if you do than you're in luck: http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=57&catid=474&PageNo=1
posted 04-21-2008 04:06 PM PT (US)

rkeaveney Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: Exams are wrapping up (for me, anyway), summer begins, and May looks incredible... ...This is TOO COOL! http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=57&page=view&catid=474&P ageNo=1&key=17&hit=1 ...This ISN'T COOL AT ALL! (Close to nightmarish, actually. Happy birthday, Andrew.) http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=57&page=view&catid=474&Pa geNo=1&key=5&hit=1 ...And don't go here if you don't want to see ANYTHING from Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull, but if you do than you're in luck: http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=57&catid=474&PageNo=1 Right under Burtt's ass are the sliders that control the score levels.
posted 04-21-2008 10:08 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by rkeaveney: Right under Burtt's ass are the sliders that control the score levels. HAHA! Probably going to -9db, or even lower!
posted 04-21-2008 11:27 PM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: HAHA! Probably going to -9db, or even lower! Psh! Who needs to hear the score!!! ...
posted 04-22-2008 09:57 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by scoreguy16: Psh! Who needs to hear the score!!! ... Yeah, HA!, it might interfere with Burtt's whip-cracking sound effects!
posted 04-22-2008 10:38 AM PT (US)

Tristan Standard Userer	Come on now. Ben may not have his mix set properly, but the man is a definitive voice (literally, the rediscovery of the "Wilhelm scream" - one of my personal faves) in the world of sound design. From the whipcracks to the punches to the blasters to the podracers to the lightsabers. I can forgive the some of the mixing if I get to keep the effects.
posted 04-22-2008 12:08 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	Ben Burtt was indeed once a great sound designer. A long time ago.
posted 04-22-2008 05:30 PM PT (US)

Tristan Standard Userer	I refuse to take away the man's contributions to the latest STAR WARS trilogy (his most "recent" work, besides games) despite the trilogy itself not living up to our expectations. I blame Lucas and the CGI artists for that. Soundwise, Burtt and Williams delivered (for the most part) and were the only MVPs of that series. PHANTOM's pod race scene was a great example of his work, IMHO. The editing and mixing of these films might be up for debate, but as far as the sound design itself, I think it still holds up. I'm excited to hear what he will be doing for WALL-E. If he designed that voice on the trailer, it is already a memorable start.
posted 04-22-2008 06:34 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Tristan: You're out of your mind. The Pod Race sequence might have some impressive sound effects, but musically it's botched and horrendous to sit through: The score is just the "Escape From Naboo" cue recycled into the mix to conclude Anakin's finishing the race. I'm not sure you understand why I, Ryan, Clayton, and Swashbuckler have a problem with Ben Burtt: Yeah, sure, his sound effects are fine, but his final mixes are NOT. A Perfect example is The Phantom Menace or even worse, Attack Of The Clones! Check out the SE features on Revenge Of The Sith and you'll witness a perfect example of why/how this occurs and a pitiful example of Ken Wannberg (Williams' excellent music editor) being shunned by both Ben Burtt and George Lucas, not at all being taken seriously; it's shameful, really.
posted 04-23-2008 01:32 AM PT (US)

Tristan Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by sean: Tristan: You're out of your mind. The Pod Race sequence might have some impressive sound effects, but musically it's botched and horrendous to sit through: The score is just the "Escape From Naboo" cue recycled into the mix to conclude Anakin's finishing the race. I'm not sure you understand why I, Ryan, Clayton, and Swashbuckler have a problem with Ben Burtt: Yeah, sure, his sound effects are fine, but his final mixes are NOT. A Perfect example is The Phantom Menace or even worse, Attack Of The Clones! Check out the SE features on Revenge Of The Sith and you'll witness a perfect example of why/how this occurs and a pitiful example of Ken Wannberg (Williams' excellent music editor) being shunned by both Ben Burtt and George Lucas, not at all being taken seriously; it's shameful, really. Like my previous posts suggest,Sean, I am praising the man's talents in creating effects and his expertise in sound design. As stated, his mixing may be up for debate. I'm certainly not commenting on that. I have found though, in my experience in video editing, that usually the best work is done by specialists in a very specific realm. Thus, sound designers probabaly won't make very good mixers. I'm sure there are those out there that are, but I would expect that the "jack of all trades, master of none" addage applies for most cases. I have a composer friend who hates to mix and refuses to do it because he knows that his mixing will be subpar. I will try to check out that REVENGE OF THE SITH extra if I ever bring myself to buy it -which I probably will because I am a completist and this ep is the only one I don't have thus far.
posted 04-23-2008 07:41 AM PT (US)

scoreguy16 Standard Userer	Sound effects wise, he is excelent. However, I even just tested out his mix on Raiders of the Lost Ark (on that new THX demo disc thing) and the score seems to be mixed horribly low in that as well. Maybe he hates John Williams?
posted 04-23-2008 10:09 AM PT (US)

Tristan Standard Userer	Maybe...but it could just be that William's music is a victim of "the system". I run into that all the time. I constantly hear the whining from clients and producers who are so paranoid of the music burying the voice on spots or videos. I always like to have the music at a relatively high level in the mix because I think that if you have it too much in the background a)the composer's work is never really heard as it was intended (so themes/reasons for using a particular track become virtually nonexistent) and b)your production seems less professional to me without a really beefed up score or song accompanying the rest of the sounds in the mix. But I constantly hear, "I am really afraid about hearing him/her over the music. Can we lower that?" By the time it is lowered enough to the client's content, the production comes off very hackish, IMO. I can just picture Lucas that way, "Ben, I want to hear the great acting I elicited from Natalie. Just loop John's theme and crank it down. The audience is already familiar with that music anyway."
posted 04-23-2008 11:04 AM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Tristan, fair enough I see what you're saying. Clayton, you're right about Raiders, and actually every film that Burtt and Williams have been involved with together. I watched The Empire Strikes Back a little while ago and the "Imperial March" enters for the first time way too low and almost fades in rather getting a straight, good attack in the mix.
posted 04-23-2008 01:14 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Standard Userer	The problem is that the original sound mixes for a lot of these films have always had the music very prominent in them. Choices made in these 5.1 remixes are very different from the ones that were made back when the film was originally mixed. This is particularly true on the Star Wars films. This is a problem that dates back to the '97 Special Editions... comparisons of that laserdisc release with the "Definitive Collection" with the equivalent scenes in the Special Editions show a much messier sound mix with more limited sonics on the latter. The score is mixed much more modestly than it was in previous versions (including any and all home video presentation). While the DVD mixes sound somewhat better than the Special Edition lasers, they also suffer from some really weird decisions - and a lot of people who weren't film score aficionados noticed it, too; remember the outcry about how the the fanfare form of Ben's theme was dialed down as the X-Wings dived down on the Death Star? Ben Burtt has, in the past, created some very good sound effects. He made a lovable character out of a garbage can with lights on it. I have found his more recent work to be much less interesting, and I have found his participation in the retooling of the original trilogy to have been part of the reason why I didn't like it.
posted 04-23-2008 04:35 PM PT (US)

sean Standard Userer	Also, to be further critical of Burtt and his participation in the recent Star Wars films: He should NEVER have been put in charge of editing; he's not an editor! I don't know what convinced Lucas that Burtt should actually be editing the footage, Phantom Menace and Attack Of The Clones are terribly edited--why he's thought of as a jack-of-all-trades at Lucasfilm is beyond me... Good thing for the last one there was an actual editor on it.
posted 04-24-2008 10:19 AM PT (US)

Tristan Standard Userer	Not to get too far into retreading the Lucas bashing thing, but from what I understand and have read, I am very much in the Gary Kurtz camp. They should've never let that guy walk away as a producer of the SW films. I think I attibute a lot of the greatness that was the original film and definitely its sequel, EMPIRE, to his direct contributions.
posted 04-24-2008 11:33 AM PT (US)

brakeonthroo Non-Standard Userer	Thanx for the pics. In one of the pics Spielberg seems to be directing the photographer. Pretty Funny.
posted 04-30-2008 05:12 PM PT (US)

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