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Originally posted by Kirkinson:
Jeron and Sean remind me of kids from the Catholic school who would tell us kids from the Lutheran school that we weren't really Christians. Now that I'm not anything, that whole argument strikes me as being totally absurd. Just like this one.

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Kirkinson, haha. I got some laughs out of this, because I can totally see the comparison. However, I'm certainly in no position to tell anyone of Faith, regardless of which school, who's a Christian and who's not -- that of course is ignorant and intolerant. However, I will call out anyone who's unwilling to give the new Trek a chance! I'm sure Trent, and anyone else who's decidedly not seeing Star Trek in theaters, have other movies in their queue, less deserving of the money they'll spend on a ticket..., meaning I better not hear that any of you naysayers went to go see Land of the Lost or Night at the Museum 2!

Brian is right. To skip out on the film, Trek fan or not, is a summer movie crime. It's a felony. Hell, a travesty.

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Originally posted by sean:
Michael, all my Aussie mates are dying for Trek...

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Bitchin' movie.

---- Mark

They will justify it by saying its new artistic approach to the story, but in reality all it is is Pitt wanting to pose next to his classic cars and the studio wanting to make quick money on hype.

Not cool.

--Brian

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Originally posted by Camillu:
Attended a press screening today. Great fun. To be honest score sounded underwhelming for the most part, and the first real blast of thematic material seemed a bit protracted. But I'll need to hear it again, and hear the album. The end credits are great though.

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Star Trek's got a new paint job and the finish is as shiny and brilliant as ever.

I can not wait for the sequel, which has fortunately already been green lit.

Now that' you've finally seen the film, do you agree that we need to have the rest of Giacchino's music?

Scott

I can say this having grown up with Star Trek as a film series: this Trek is good because it is gutsy. It took chances and delivered something fresh.

I've come to the conclusion in the last decade that some things must end so something new, good, and even wonderful can begin.

We got that with this Star Trek. We were given this with Batman Begins and with Casino Royale.

As Spock was once resurrected, so is this franchise.

Beware: key plot spoilers.

ALL IT TAKES IS 10 COINCIDENCES TO RESURRECT A FRANCHISE

Unravelling the plot, the coincidences are:

1. That moments after Spock and Nero encountered each other for the first time, both would be conveniently sucked into a black hole leading to a time vortex etc, leading to Nero emerging moments before the birth of Captain Kirk, just in time for the film's first act.

2. ... that Nero would just happen to be in the right place at the right time 25 years later when Spock arrived back in the timestream, just in time for the film's second act. Even if it was the exact same spot he had emerged from years before, how did he know when Spock would come out? Clearly he'd been moving around in the time in between.

3. That Nero would just happen to have a bloody big planetary drill on his ship that, combined with the red matter on Spock's ship, could destroy planets. Very convenient. Pretty good thinking for a professional miner to put two-and-two together there.

4. That Kirk would - overhearing a reference to a lightning storm (or whatever the macguffin was) - would assume within seconds that it had something to do with the lightning storm that coincided (there we go again!) with birth. Are lightning storms in space that uncommon?

5. (not a coincidence, but rather unlikely) That Nero would strand Spock on a planet called Delta Vega IV (suggesting that the planet was the fourth orbiting the a star called Delta Vega), which would nonetheless have a view of the planet Vulcan - with the latter looming larger in the Delta Vega IV sky than the moon does on our planet earth. Why is he there? Why wouldn't Nero keep his accidental enemy close in proximity so he could relish the pain he inflicted on him? So the script writers could get Spock to meet Kirk.

6. That despite the fact that the Enterprise was making tracks away from the remnants of Vulcan at the time that Kirk was jettisoned (so at to not be destroyed by Nero's bloody big ship), they still hadn't gotten further away than a planet with an excellent sky view of the destruction of Vulcan.

7. That Kirk would actually be jettisoned by the Enterprise onto an ice planet, where he would be chased by some obligatory snow monsters into the exact cave... wherein resides Leonard Nimoy.

8. That the inventor of transwarp technology - a certain Scot - would also be found on this incredible icy planet. (Leading to much of the fast learning curve tech advancement that makes the film's last act possible, including warp acceleration and transwarp transport.)

9. That the Captain, Chief Engineer, Chief Medical Officer and Translator would all be made incapable of performing their duties in the initial Nero attack... leading to the promotion of everyone into their familiar places. I could have lived with this, but I needed to make the list of ten.

10. (meta) The film revolves around a rogue Romulan with a bloody big ship out to destroy planets, ultimately Earth. Was that not also the plot of the last Star Trek film? Coincidence? (At least we can put to the test a theory about ST:Nemesis - that the reason it failed to pull in audiences was not because it was an under-budgeted, terrible film - even though it was - but because it was happening to Picard&Co, not Kirk&Co.)

Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed the characters and all that. Of course, most scripts are structured by convenient coincidences, and there are many more in the film. The problem here, is that they're not hard to see. Most films get away with them because they only occur to you long after the fact, not while you're watching it.

Three more moments of - 'huh? wah?'

1. Kirk and Sulu spend 5 minutes saving the planet Vulcan from Nero's bloody big drill. But it doesn't matter. Obligatory action scene much?

2. Kirk is physically jettisoned onto the first passing planet? Do all people get put in that 'brig'?

3. Despite being close enough to Vulcan - a largely desert planet - to have a great sky view of its destruction, Delta Vega IV is completely covered ... in ice. Hmmm...

4. Nero didn't kill Kirk when he had the chance. He left him in the hands of an underling who was fated to fail, as underlings always are. Couldn't they come up with anything better?

The Missing Theme

Very good points, franz. I thought there many good things with this film, freshening up what to the average viewer (not the trekie) percieves as a very dull universe. For me this is the case with Star Trek, James Bond. Harry Potter. X-Men,...the stories and sequels are not discernible to me. Just another boring outing. This TREK, much like CASINO ROYALE, and Nolan's BATMANS, has reinvigorated the franchise...75 million dollars this weekend proves it so. And I guarantee it will make a lot more.

I felt the effects work was top notch for the most part. I love the subtle details like the random shots of alien presences on the U.S.S. Kelvin and in the bar where Kirk is asking for Uhura's name. The technical look of the ships and moments like Sulu's mistake leaving port - which actually ended up saving the Enterprise's life - added great character to the fresh Enterpise and her even fresher crew.. I love the new sonic boom "effect" of warping as well as what happens when you are trying to transport a fast moving or plummeting target - something we have never seen before, as far as I can recollect.

What kept trampling all of this ingenuity was the overtness - of some of the effects like the ice monster chase. This is George Lucas hack territory. Just because you can do it, doesn't make it right to do so. I think this was how I felt about the Spock (Nimoy) thing, too. I felt like it was a sacrificial bone thrown to the die hard fans to win favor with them. It seemed shoehorned in there and needed to be a lot more subtle to work for me. Bad execution and bad writing. The whole time travel thing was an obvious device to set up the fact that this is an alternate Trek universe from here on out, again to appease the fans into accepting this new Trek lore. A cop out, in my opinion that needed a lot of deus ex machina exposition from who else, but old Spock, a appeasement device himself.

Like Kirk bedding the green alien, the ridiculous overacting imitation of DeForrest Kelly that the new Dr. McCoy was doing for most of the picture. Scotty and his "dino-buddy". I can appreciate humor and in-jokes as much as anybody, but here it gets to be just plain silly. Again, this is approaching Lucas territory (Jar Jar, MATRIX Yoda or 3PO's "What a drag" line). Look at DARK KNIGHT or CASINO ROYALE, enough comedy sprinkled in to make the film enjoyable. It is not needed every 2 minutes. STAR TREK is a film dealing with genocide...let's not forget that.

Another thing that this TREK also falls prey to is the curse of the Star Trek villain. I'm not a Trekkie, but I've seen most of the films and they always seem to lack a memorable or capable villlain. No one has ever some remotely close to Ricardo's Kahn. Why is this? I mean Eric Bana is a good actor...here, he is wasted. Having a good villain is possible. Ledger did it with The Joker. Molina did it with Doc Ock. Emerson is doing it with Ben on LOST. And at least make it believable. This Nero is a miner with a chip on his shoulder? With that ship, his master plan of time travel and creating black holes to exact genocide should at least require an astrophysicist. And this Nero seems a little to dumb and mild to exact such revenge. He leaves Kirk with an underling, he leaves Pike alive...Spock had more rage over the death of his mother in the movie than this guy, Nero, had regarding the death of his entire race. Now what I was waiting for was the climatic physical battle between Spock and Nero. The motivational forces were there certainly. So again, the baddie turns out to be a dud. Hopefully this gets rectified in TREK's sophomore outing.

I had other issues as well, like the stranding of a fleet officer on a desolate planet instead of placing him within the brig. Even old Galactica has a brig. They forget to build one on the Enterprise? Now if this had been done specifically because Spock's emotion got the better of him and he saw Kirk as a threat to his command and felt he needed to take drastic measures to get him as far away as possible, then I'd accept that. That could have been the fuse for the confrontation between the returning Kirk and Spock that ultimately makes Spock reveal his emotional cards making him unfit for command. Speaking of which, I was expecting Spock to go through that ceremony which dehumanizes him. If I knew that was coming I could have accepted his anger issues and romance with Uhura.

J.J. and his crew should be proud of what they've done. I absolutely loved it and will be seeing it again.

Plot holes and analyzation aside, guys and gals, this is a SciFi film, and the term suspension of disbelief must be applied. Plot holes be damned, sit back and have a good time and enjoy. The film works.

As for Old Spock, he was there to serve a purpose, and I don't think its a fan copout. I read the four Countdown eBooks off iTunes and that sets up why he's there and gives him more backstory so you understand him and why he's even in the film. Naysers on Old Spock should give those a read.

As for the music, it was awesome. And really, while I'd love a longer CD, I think what we have is some of the best material.

Can't wait to see it again. I haven't had this much fun, or this big a smile from a film for a long time.

--Brian

I didn't have to read or listen to any supplements to thoroughly enjoy the film. I actually sought out the other stuff to see what it would add/subtract to the film.

I'm pretty confident that there aren't many films that don't have things "left out" in the final product. Whether it be this film, films "based on" original novels. And what about stuff left "on the cutting room floor?" Sometimes - in reflection - those scenes help the film along as well, but at the time the film makers didn't think so.

I can enjoy "Jurassic Park" as a film, even though a lot of the book isn't included. Same as "2001", or a number of other films.

My only disappointment is that, like franz pointed out, the theme that is raised with "living with fear in the face of death" is dropped in the second half of the movie. The writers get props for bringing it up in the first place, especially through the Kobayashi Maru, which makes its inclusion feel necessary instead of an obligatory fanboy addition, but they didn't hang it together.

It would be like presenting the theme in Spiderman as "With great power comes great responsibility" and then saying "Now forget that and let's go blow some **** up." It's not quite as simple as that, but you get my point.

That being said, I am loving the main theme right out of the box without having my normal film associations. I think it was said earlier...it feels like an evolution of music from the OST but modern and fresh as well. Nice.

The argument that the meeting of all the characters relied on "coincidence" isn't very valid in my view.

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Originally posted by Crono/Kyp:
Plot holes and analyzation aside, guys and gals, this is a SciFi film, and the term suspension of disbelief must be applied.

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
The argument that the meeting of all the characters relied on "coincidence" isn't very valid in my view.

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You can make the entries flashier, you can make them not that casual, but by doing that, you give them more attention and are glorifying them, which would have made it all the goofier.

In this case, to avoid any argument of "too much coincidence", the solution would have been to not make the movie at all.
Or starting the film when the crew already knew each other. In which case the whole point of the film would have been ruined.

Really, what makes those meetings funny is not the film Star Trek 2009, but the fame that the series built.
I guess you could have made it different, but you just could have NEVER done it PERFECT because that would require older viewers to erase their memory.
Which is exactly the point, it's Star Trek for the post 2000 generation.

gk, I thought you thought the film looked awful... Why did you go see it? It can't be because of the score, can it? I ain't even going to Angels & Demons with the knowledge that (yes, I own the score already) Hans Zimmer's score is excellent and above and beyond Giacchino's Star Trek.

Funny stuff, weirdos.

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Originally posted by sean:
All your points are useless, I know Trek back-to-front.

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The ostrich buries his head in the sand.
But the ostrich hunter doesn't care.

I'm not sure about the motivations of delaying the introduction a key character until this point (but the moment itself was rather enjoyable.) But as posed earlier, the motivations putting the two key characters in that place were wonky (particularly Kirk.)

Following the trend of several films of the past two years, the films momentum petered out a bit for the climax, but all that being said an awesome ride. I think I will get to see it again Friday, and I truly feel this is a film that must be experienced a couple times before its value shines through.

For those who stated the new theme is bland...huh? Love it even more now that I have seen the film. Still gestating the rest, but so far so good.

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Originally posted by sean:
Ah, whatever, I bet you're more excited about the new Carl Bessai film, there, Michael. All your points are useless, I know Trek back-to-front.

gk, I thought you thought the film looked awful... Why did you go see it? It can't be because of the score, can it? I ain't even going to Angels & Demons with the knowledge that (yes, I own the score already) Hans Zimmer's score is excellent and above and beyond Giacchino's Star Trek.

Funny stuff, weirdos.

[Message edited by sean on 05-11-2009]

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The trailer, on which I based my assumption, doesn't do the film justice in any way, and it does make the film look horrible.
I didn't plan to see it any time soon, but after reading impressions of people more trustworthy than yourself in matters of taste, an impulse yesterday decided I might as well see it.
And the impulse was spot on.

It came to me in stark realization yesterday that while I was watching the shuttle Atlantis lift off, I was hearing said main theme in my head.

By the way, do you know about a 2 disc anniversary edition of Star Trek TMP?

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Originally posted by gkgyver:
By the way, do you know about a 2 disc anniversary edition of Star Trek TMP?

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--Brian

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Originally posted by BigT1981:
Anyways regarding the film....I think.....I'll tell you guys after I see it on Saturday.

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Anyways, I got back from the viewing and yes, color me converted. I'm really even warming up to the new redesign of the Enterprise. All though I still find it hard to believe she's almost as big as a Galaxy Class starship.

The lens flare was pretty distracting in a lot of scenes and my eyes are a bit sensitive to really bright bursts of light like that. Other than that I really enjoyed the movie.

Regarding comments as to some that had a problem with Nero just flying around for 25 years, not being seen, or heard, or not even warning Romulus on future events, well I got a bit of a reveal for that. Supposedly there was a sequence shot but cut late from the film, that after the Kelvin rammed into the Nerada the ship was heavily damaged. Klingons managed to capture the ship and Nero and his crew and held them captive on Rura Penthe.

Remember during the trailers we saw Nero fighting off two Klingon guards. That's where he had been for 25 years and some how they managed to escape, take back their vessel and destroy the Klingon armada (the 47 ships).

However, figuring out where to return to, to when Prime Spock emerges is baffling, but I figured Nero did some calculations to determine where he'd emerge at.

Welcome to the club.

--Brian